Building your own flat-plane "P65" engine

[InnerBlueSkies]

Originally Posted by Down_Shift

What oil should I use in this engine?

Amazon Basics

[Green-Eggs]

Finally, I've got an update from Bert on his S65 Flat Plane Crank project.

Click on any of the photos to see full-sized images. The photo blog URL's contain dozens of extra pictures.

Block Preparation and Main Bearing Clearance

Before installing the crankshaft, the bedplate must be prepared. The main bearings are installed, and the clearances are calculated.

Installing Main Bearings

Photo Blog URL: http://www.rcollins-home.org/photobu....php?album=280











Main Bearing Clearance

Photo Blog URL: http://www.rcollins-home.org/photobu....php?album=283






Installing Crankshaft, Seals, Measuring Endplay

Installing Crankshaft

Photo Blog URL: http://www.rcollins-home.org/photobu....php?album=282











Measuring Endplay

Photo Blog URL: http://www.rcollins-home.org/photobu....php?album=284





Installing Crankshaft Seals

Photo Blog URL: http://www.rcollins-home.org/photobu....php?album=281

[Green-Eggs]

Before I post the next update tonight or tomorrow, I have the following update on the viability of building an S65 Flat Plane project of your own.

As Bert thought, converting the valve train to mechanical lifters was easy, and relatively inexpensive. Bert put together a kit that will convert the hydraulic cam followers to mechanical. The mechanical cam follows are required to run the cams for this flat plane project.

Two other builders are working with Bert to build a flat plane engine of their own. Schrick has agreed to make the cams for Bert. If more people are interested, then the cost of the cams will go down. Roughly speaking, building a flat plane S65 engine will cost about $5000 more than a normal stroker engine. That's a lot better than we thought. For each person who orders the cams, the cost comes down a few hundred dollars.

Anybody considering building a stroker motor and wants to build a flat plane engine instead, contact me or Bert soon. Bert plans to order the cams around the beginning to mid of June.

[GORDON.M3]

The S65 looks so good... thanks for the updates, exciting!

[SYT_Shadow]

So much win in a single thread!

[8500RPM]

Any idea on redline for this bad boy?

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by 8500RPM

Any idea on redline for this bad boy?

Given the cams, mechanical cam followers, titanium valve spring retainers, and racing valve springs, I'd guestimate about 9000 RPMs. But we shall see.

[Green-Eggs]

Here's another update:

Click on any of the photos to see full-sized images. The photo blog URL's contain dozens of extra pictures.

Installing the pistons.

Piston Preparation

Photo Blog URL: http://www.rcollins-home.org/photobu....php?album=287







Installing Pistons

Photo Blog URL: http://www.rcollins-home.org/photobu....php?album=286











Torquing rod bolts using 'stretch' gauge

Photo Blog URL: http://www.rcollins-home.org/photobu....php?album=288







Measuring rod side play

Photo Blog URL: http://www.rcollins-home.org/photobu....php?album=289





Notes About Rod Bearings

When Bert bought the flat plane crank and cams from Dinan, the crankshaft did not use the standard BMW S65 rod journal. Instead, it used a very well known racing sized journal. Bert's not disclosing which racing journal is used. This particular rod journal has many bearings available: STD, +/-0.001, +/-0.002, +/-0.010, etc. The bearings are available from Clevite with and without a TriArmor coating. These bearings are also available in different widths to suit different width rod journals. The availability of these bearings and sizes and widths make them ideal for a project like this. The different sizes allow the builder to dial in the clearance to any desired specification. The different widths allow them to fit into the width of an S65-sized connecting rod (albeit with a different diameter).

Bert gave Van Dyne free reign over the project, including the new crankshaft Bert was going to order. Van Dyne Engineering could have decided to keep the BMW journal and bearings, or swap them to something else. Many years ago when the S65 rod bearing issue was discovered by Van Dyne, they were pushing Bert to adopt this same racing journal on the S65. But doing so would require a crank-out regrind and rebuild -- and that wasn't going to be feasible for 90% of the people. So it's no surprise that Van Dyne chose to adopt this same racing journal for the new crankshaft. Years later, Dinan would adopt the same approach and same journal diameter for all of their stroker engine builds.

The whole idea worked like a charm. As has been the standard practice at Van Dyne for all of their S65 builds, the main journals were sized slightly undersized to give extra clearance. The rod journals used combinations of STD and +/-0.001 bearings shells to dial in the clearance exactly to 0.0021 inch, as was ideal for this size journal. The journal is smaller than standard S65, thus making the rotating assembly lighter. It's a win-win-win for the entire project.

[serranot]

Green - is there any idea what something like this would cost, installed, roughly? This might be for me. Thank you.

[xander_g]

Originally Posted by serranot

Green - is there any idea what something like this would cost, installed, roughly? This might be for me. Thank you.

Curious as to the same, minus installation.

Group buy anyone?

[Richbot]

schwing

[Eku]

What is weight difference between crossplane vs flatplane crank?

[Kelse92]

This has been incredible to follow, thank you for the updates!

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by serranot

Green - is there any idea what something like this would cost, installed, roughly? This might be for me. Thank you.

Originally Posted by xander_g

Curious as to the same, minus installation.

Group buy anyone?

Not allowed to discuss pricing here. Shoot an email to bert @ bebearings (dot com).

Originally Posted by Eku

What is weight difference between crossplane vs flatplane crank?

~ 3 pounds lighter. But that's just a guestimate. I talked to Bert...and he was so excited when they put the crank in...that he forgot to weigh it. Bert says he'll weigh the crank on one of the other flat plane projects in the works.

[LostPanda]

Gentlement, you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.

[automotiveaperture]

Subscribed! This is epic OP, just when I was planning on selling my car for something different your build has given me pause haha.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by automotiveaperture

Subscribed! This is epic OP, just when I was planning on selling my car for something different your build has given me pause haha.

There's still room for one more build to help drive the costs down!

[lukasbmw]

Wow!

Only wish BMW had done this from the start!

[CHE///MIST3]

Love this thread !! Do you expect the engine to feel as "smooth" in this configuration as stock when at higher RPMs ?

GM

[dfwashere]

So much win in one thread

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by CHE///MIST3

Love this thread !! Do you expect the engine to feel as "smooth" in this configuration as stock when at higher RPMs ?

GM

We're told by Dinan that it will have more vibration.

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

We're told by Dinan that it will have more vibration.

And that may add to its rawness, it already pretty smooth.