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[heart_doctor]

I have a 2011 BMW M3 E92. OEM Tires are Pirellis. I go through a set of rears every 8 to 9,000 miles and the front tires last about 20,000. I'm due for a set of four and dealership quoted me $1800 for 4 tires, mount and balance and 4 tire alignment ($200). I got off the phone with tire rack and the rep suggested the Michelin pilot sport A/S 3+ which would get me better tread wear and the tires would last longer. Also they are cheaper than the Pirellis.

Anyone use these or the outgoing A/S 3? I was thinking of ordering myself and having a local (highly rated) shop mount/balance/ and align.

What do you think or are there other tires you would recommend for longer tread life. I don't track the car just drive it to work.

Thanks!

[WingZeroX5]

Toyo Proxes 4 Plus

[Denk]

I can't say enough good things about the PSS, that's my only recommendation for the the street. I've tried cheaper but they didn't do it for me. You should get better wear out of a PSS over the PZero.

[heart_doctor]

Originally Posted by Denk

I can't say enough good things about the PSS, that's my only recommendation for the the street. I've tried cheaper but they didn't do it for me. You should get better wear out of a PSS over the PZero.

The rep at tirerack said you really have to go to an all season tire to see any appreciable increase in tread life.

[Denk]

Originally Posted by heart_doctor

The rep at tirerack said you really have to go to an all season tire to see any appreciable increase in tread life.

At a cost though. It's a compromise, you'll loose some performance with an all season. I guess it depends on your priorities, what you want from a tire. Give 'em a shot, they might be perfect for you.

[CSBM5]

I had a set on a S4 I just sold, and they are *by far* the best dry performing all-season rated tire I've ever driven. Note that the PSAS3 outperformed some competitors' dry summer tires in the dry, I think one of those was the Conti DW. Unless you're concerned about dry autocross or track times, I think you'll find they have all the performance you can use on the street.

The PSAS3+ which replaced the PSAS3 has improved snow traction is my understanding.

The PSAS3/PSAS3+ has better cold (i.e. 55F and below) weather dry and wet pavement grip than a PSS too btw.

Regards,
Chuck

[kaede]

OP, firstly you'll have to really think about what is your priority and intended use of the tires that you'll be getting. How's the weather where you live? Is it always wet? Does it get really icy and cold in the winter? Do you drive the M3 in mild winter/snowy conditions etc. Also, do you do any HPDE with the vehicle?

If you're simply getting a set of tires looking for longevity and you drive on it all year round as a DD, then i think the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ will be a wonderful option. However, as you research more about All Season tires, you'll hear many say that its "A Jack of all trade, but master of none." and i believe thats true. In order to give you all season capability and long thread life will compromise in many aspects. The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ is more inclined to be a summer focused all season tire where dry and wet (but not freezing) handling/traction and performance excels above most competitors. From tirerack and what i have read on forums etc, both those metrics measure closely up to the Michelin's Pilot Super Sport (PSS) which is a dedicated summer tire for ultimate dry and wet grip for a road driven car (excluding dedicated track designed tires). The A/S 3+ have a slightly better edge because it does provide some degree of mild winter handling capabilities and will otherwise leave people with PSS stuck. However, that being said, that is by no means that the A/S 3+ excels in snowy/icy winter conditions. Compared to other All Season tires (such as Continental Extreme DWS/DWS06), the A/S 3+ will not be as stellar. What the Continental gains in winter performance, they suffer in the dry traction, handling, and feel.

For Myself, i personally went with PSS as my DD, and a set of dedicated winter tires for the winter months. By doing that on my staggered sized wheels, my rear PSS lasted me 3-4 years of DD driving (i don't put on a lot of mileage though, only around 10k km (6k miles) per year in the summer. On my winters, i still have tons of thread left since i only have those on 3-4 months in the year. Should probably buy new ones simply due to age of the tires.

Hope you find your own conclusion as to what you'd want to purchase soon! Cheers!

[70X200]

Originally Posted by kaede

OP, firstly you'll have to really think about what is your priority and intended use of the tires that you'll be getting. How's the weather where you live? Is it always wet? Does it get really icy and cold in the winter? Do you drive the M3 in mild winter/snowy conditions etc. Also, do you do any HPDE with the vehicle?

If you're simply getting a set of tires looking for longevity and you drive on it all year round as a DD, then i think the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ will be a wonderful option. However, as you research more about All Season tires, you'll hear many say that its "A Jack of all trade, but master of none." and i believe thats true. In order to give you all season capability and long thread life will compromise in many aspects. The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ is more inclined to be a summer focused all season tire where dry and wet (but not freezing) handling/traction and performance excels above most competitors. From tirerack and what i have read on forums etc, both those metrics measure closely up to the Michelin's Pilot Super Sport (PSS) which is a dedicated summer tire for ultimate dry and wet grip for a road driven car (excluding dedicated track designed tires). The A/S 3+ have a slightly better edge because it does provide some degree of mild winter handling capabilities and will otherwise leave people with PSS stuck. However, that being said, that is by no means that the A/S 3+ excels in snowy/icy winter conditions. Compared to other All Season tires (such as Continental Extreme DWS/DWS06), the A/S 3+ will not be as stellar. What the Continental gains in winter performance, they suffer in the dry traction, handling, and feel.

For Myself, i personally went with PSS as my DD, and a set of dedicated winter tires for the winter months. By doing that on my staggered sized wheels, my rear PSS lasted me 3-4 years of DD driving (i don't put on a lot of mileage though, only around 10k km (6k miles) per year in the summer. On my winters, i still have tons of thread left since i only have those on 3-4 months in the year. Should probably buy new ones simply due to age of the tires.

Hope you find your own conclusion as to what you'd want to purchase soon! Cheers!

I would have to agree with most everything he says. I have the A/S 3's and can't say that I have any regrets in my purchase. I like them as I live in Minnesota and find that I can put them on earlier and take them off later than the PS2's I had previously. They are by no means an all season tire when it come to snow. I do like how they handle, and wear doesn't seem to be an issue either.

[roastbeef]

do you like giving money away? why would you go to the dealership for tires? go to a few local tire shops and negotiate.

[heart_doctor]

Originally Posted by kaede

OP, firstly you'll have to really think about what is your priority and intended use of the tires that you'll be getting. How's the weather where you live? Is it always wet? Does it get really icy and cold in the winter? Do you drive the M3 in mild winter/snowy conditions etc. Also, do you do any HPDE with the vehicle?

If you're simply getting a set of tires looking for longevity and you drive on it all year round as a DD, then i think the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ will be a wonderful option. However, as you research more about All Season tires, you'll hear many say that its "A Jack of all trade, but master of none." and i believe thats true. In order to give you all season capability and long thread life will compromise in many aspects. The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ is more inclined to be a summer focused all season tire where dry and wet (but not freezing) handling/traction and performance excels above most competitors. From tirerack and what i have read on forums etc, both those metrics measure closely up to the Michelin's Pilot Super Sport (PSS) which is a dedicated summer tire for ultimate dry and wet grip for a road driven car (excluding dedicated track designed tires). The A/S 3+ have a slightly better edge because it does provide some degree of mild winter handling capabilities and will otherwise leave people with PSS stuck. However, that being said, that is by no means that the A/S 3+ excels in snowy/icy winter conditions. Compared to other All Season tires (such as Continental Extreme DWS/DWS06), the A/S 3+ will not be as stellar. What the Continental gains in winter performance, they suffer in the dry traction, handling, and feel.

For Myself, i personally went with PSS as my DD, and a set of dedicated winter tires for the winter months. By doing that on my staggered sized wheels, my rear PSS lasted me 3-4 years of DD driving (i don't put on a lot of mileage though, only around 10k km (6k miles) per year in the summer. On my winters, i still have tons of thread left since i only have those on 3-4 months in the year. Should probably buy new ones simply due to age of the tires.

Hope you find your own conclusion as to what you'd want to purchase soon! Cheers!

I have always used the Pirelli p zeros which is the oem tire that came with my car. I get about 8,000 out of the rears and 20,000 on the front tires. If I read your post right you get about 15,000 to 18,000 miles out of our rear PSS which is twice what I am getting from the Pirellis. That's a big different. I store the car for the winter and out around 7,000 to 8,000 miles per year on the car. It's my dd during warm weather.

[heart_doctor]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

do you like giving money away? why would you go to the dealership for tires? go to a few local tire shops and negotiate.

I know. The dealer is asking $400/each for the rear tires and they are on tire rack for $250.

[Sandye90m3]

Just thought I'd chime in as I have these tires installed for the past 10 months/7k miles.

Let's be honest here, if you are on the street I highly doubt you can tell the difference between the PSS and A/S3. Some people are going to call me wack, but honestly it's just a stereotype that performance cars need to have summer tires, and anything less is a compromise.

But in my opinion that is not the case, I push my M3 "pretty hard" on the street, but obviously I'm not doing any racing, and I can assure you, you won't be disappointed with those tires.

Here are a couple of things I've notices:

• A/S 3s are much quieter and comfortable than the PSS (I've gone through 3 sets and was getting tired of replacing the tires every 7 months.
• In my opinion, they grip the road better than the PSS when the tires are not warm, however when they are warm, the PSS has a slight edge over the A/S 3, but nothing that I feel like I'm losing out on.
• The last a heck of a long time, right now I have probably have 80% of the tire tread left, and at this mileage I would have 50% tread on my PSS

The only real negative I can think of, is the fact that when you are pushing the M hard in a turn, I can feel that the sidewall is definitely not as stiff as the PSS. It makes the M feel like it plowing into corners rather than pulling itself around the corners if that makes any sense, but that only happens if you are pounding on the M, to the point that the tires are screeching.

But honestly, how many times are you going to feel that? 90% of the time I drive my M3 pretty lax, so it's a no brainer I would rather have tires that suite my 90% driving personality. In a straight line, my A/S 3 chirp the tires very similarly to how my PSS chirped, so I think that means the grip about the same in a straight line lol.

Keep in mind that the A/S 3 outperformed many summer tires out there except for the PSS (obviously)

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by Sandye90m3

Just thought I'd chime in as I have these tires installed for the past 10 months/7k miles.

Let's be honest here, if you are on the street I highly doubt you can tell the difference between the PSS and A/S3. Some people are going to call me wack, but honestly it's just a stereotype that performance cars need to have summer tires, and anything less is a compromise.

But in my opinion that is not the case, I push my M3 "pretty hard" on the street, but obviously I'm not doing any racing, and I can assure you, you won't be disappointed with those tires.

Here are a couple of things I've notices:

• A/S 3s are much quieter and comfortable than the PSS (I've gone through 3 sets and was getting tired of replacing the tires every 7 months.
• In my opinion, they grip the road better than the PSS when the tires are not warm, however when they are warm, the PSS has a slight edge over the A/S 3, but nothing that I feel like I'm losing out on.
• The last a heck of a long time, right now I have probably have 80% of the tire tread left, and at this mileage I would have 50% tread on my PSS

The only real negative I can think of, is the fact that when you are pushing the M hard in a turn, I can feel that the sidewall is definitely not as stiff as the PSS. It makes the M feel like it plowing into corners rather than pulling itself around the corners if that makes any sense, but that only happens if you are pounding on the M, to the point that the tires are screeching.

But honestly, how many times are you going to feel that? 90% of the time I drive my M3 pretty lax, so it's a no brainer I would rather have tires that suite my 90% driving personality. In a straight line, my A/S 3 chirp the tires very similarly to how my PSS chirped, so I think that means the grip about the same in a straight line lol.

Keep in mind that the A/S 3 outperformed many summer tires out there except for the PSS (obviously)

Good observation! Like the OP, I went from PSS to AS3+. At a local track, my track tires corded up and I ended up running AS3 and was pleasantly surprised. I thrashed them hard a few times on track and got 20K miles. Towards the end of life, I was close to the wear bar but the tires were completely heat cycled out.

Michelin has a 30 day guarantee from your local tire shop. If you don't like them, you can try the PSS back again. This was convincing for me.

Back to back, did notice a bit of softer sidewall with the AS3. Without overdramatizing, I live in the nations capitol with legendary potholes so it was a bonus. Try them, you will be pleased.

Cheers,

Lutfy

[dparm]

The Pilot Sport AS3 is a really solid choice if you live somewhere that gets cold temperatures. If you're not getting the car on track, it's more than enough grip for the street (as others have said).

The Pilot Super Sport does wear surprisingly well, even with hard use.

[BimmerRookie]

I have AS3 on my 220M wheels and thy're awesome! They were comfortable and had good tread wear.

However, on my current wheels (Apex EC7s), I switched to Conti DW. I live in Texas, so all we have is dry heat and some rain. Let me tell you, these tires are superb for DD'ing. They're so soft and comfortable, perfect for daily driving. they were also significantly cheaper as well. Check em out!

Be sure not to confuse them with DWS, look for Conti DW.

[shad0wfax]

Overall summary:

Low temperature performance is superb.
Wet road performance is superb.
Snow performance is surprisingly good.
Road noise is minimal.
Comfort is better than Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Positions.

Summer performance will be tested later.

Vehicle:
E92 M3 DCT ZCP

Modifications:
Front alignment pins pulled, camber at -1.7° L/R
All other alignment specifications equalized between L and R, and within factory prescribed values.
No other modifications.

Tires:

SIZE		RATING	UTQG		LOCATION	MAX. LOAD	MAX. INFLATION PRESSURE		ACTUAL INFLATION PRESSURE	TREAD DEPTH	TIRE WEIGHT	RIM WIDTH RANGE		MEAS. RIM WIDTH		ACTUAL RIM WIDTH	SECT. WIDTH	TREAD WIDTH	OVERALL DIAM.	REVS. PER MILE	COUNTRY OF ORIGIN	TREAD DESIGN														
245/35ZR19	93Y XL	500 AA A	FRONT		1,433 lbs.	50 psi				35 psi (241 kPa)		10/32"		25 lbs.		8-9.5"			8.5"			9"			9.8"		8.8"		25.8"		807		US			5-Rib
265/35ZR19	98Y XL	500 AA A	REAR		1,653 lbs.	50 psi				36 psi (248 kPa)		10/32"		29 lbs.		9-10.5"			9.5"			10"			10.7"		8.7"		26.3"		790		US			6-Rib

Weather Conditions Yesterday:
Winds calm.
Pressure falling.
14°F (-10 C)
No precipitation.

Road Surface Conditions Yesterday:

Arterial inside lanes bare and dry.
Arterial outside lanes patches of ice and packed snow.
Side roads packed snow and/or ice.

Driving Observations Yesterday:

Roads traveled varied from flat to 6% grade, and the 6% grade was sustained for 0.5 miles (0.8 km).

Yesterday, traction was exceptionally good with the A/S 3+; I was able to brake, corner, and accelerate better than I was in 40° F (4.4 C) temperatures on my Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Positions that were previously on the vehicle. Where the Potenzas barely got me to the tire shop, these A/S 3+ tires got me home with as much confidence as I had with the Potenzas in wet weather.

I won't have a summer time comparison to the old summer tires for another few months, but I expect the A/S 3+ to be just as good. Additionally, the A/S 3+ were more comfortable and quiet on the road than the Potenzas were.

Weather Conditions Today:
Winds calm.
Pressure falling.
14°F (-10 C)
Snowing.

Road Surface Conditions Today:

Arterial inside lanes 3" (7.6 cm) fresh snow.
Arterial outside lanes 3" (7.6 cm) fresh snow atop patches of ice and packed snow.
Side roads 3" (7.6 cm fresh snow) atop packed snow and/or ice.

Driving Observations Today:

Roads traveled varied from flat to 6% grade, and the 6% grade was sustained for 0.5 miles (0.8 km).


In standard mode with power setting off, EDC set to comfort, throttle response set to 1 bar, and transmission in automatic mode, it was only possible to upset the rear on heavy braking or downshifts which did result in some mild and easily controllable rotation (oversteer). Cornering was stable and predictable. When accelerating, braking, or cornering conservatively, DSC engaged a few times, but no driver input was required. More aggressive cornering and moderate acceleration required minimal driver input but DSC was active frequently. Starting from a stand-still on snow covered ice was possible, though DSC was active occasionally. On the 6% grade, acceleration to 45 mph was possible and DSC intervened frequently, though minimal driver input was required.

Changing throttle response to 3 bars and using manual mode for the transmission, but leaving EDC in comfort, and power off, the car was even more stable and controllable and minimal DSC intervention occurred, other than on steep grades or in more aggressive corners or heavy braking. (Manuals are just better in low traction situations, though I will say that the automatic programming of this DCT is very good.) This will be my preferred setting for inclement weather driving.

In MDM mode, with power on, EDC to sport, transmission in manual mode, and throttle response at 4 bars, it was possible to upset the rear balance of the car when accelerating and cornering conservatively, requiring attentive driving at all times, with moderate driver input on flat roads under acceleration and and frequent driver input on the 6% grade. Oversteer at corners was very easily induced, but also easily controlled with moderate driver input required. Oversteer in heavier braking and on descents occurred occasionally and DSC intervention reduced the amount of driver correction required and somewhat mitigated the rotation.

In MDM mode with power on, EDC set to Sport+, DSC off, transmission in manual mode, and throttle response at 6 bars (this is essentially the most idiotic setting you could possibly choose for a M car on ice or snow), constant driver input was required at all times for steering and throttle. Oversteer was incredibly easily induced while cornering, accelerating, or traveling up the 6% grades. Surprisingly, acceleration and cornering was still easy to control, provided that the driver was absolutely attentive and quick to respond to dynamics. However, the oversteer induced by braking with DSC off, especially on descents, was unpredictable and unsettling; the car felt as if there was extremely heavy rear brake bias resulting in rear lock-up, inducing snap oversteer while the fronts still had traction to stop. Because of how easily upset the vehicle was on anything but absolutely flat roads, under even modest braking with with DSC off, further testing with DSC off was aborted.

I believe the instability on braking was exacerbated by the super of the road (the crown at the center of the lane is at a higher elevation than the road surface at the edge of traveled way). This mild super places the car into a constant gravity induced lateral acceleration, and I believe that it is this which was causing the car to immediately rotate under braking with DSC off.

Keep in mind that these conditions were very poor and on these hills, a true dedicated studless snow tire (such as a Nokian Hakkapeliitta r2, Bridgestone Blizzak, or continental extremecontact dws06 would be a far better choice). The side roads were bad enough that something like a SuperZ6 cable chain or a studded tire would be helpful.

I know that these tires will get me home in a pinch if it snows while I'm out and about and that as long as I drive attentively and conservatively in manual mode, avoiding MDM and DSC Off, avoid the steeper roads, deep snow, and glassy ice, I will be just fine. I would not take this up to the ski mountains without cable chains for the rear, however.


This image is after only a warm-up and 3.5 miles of driving. The car is always garaged and was clean before I took it out.

[shad0wfax]

Update:

Rear rotation was not caused by braking imbalance or tire issues. Rear rotation on descent and deceleration was caused by engine braking on downshifts in the 2,500-3,500 RPM range. Waiting to downshift at < 2,000 RPM results in stability.

I drove again tonight in 6" of fresh snow, in 5" of heavily tracked half-packed snow, and 2" of "popcorn" snow (like a groomed ski run) left by plows on roads.

I had the opportunity to accelerate, corner, and brake aggressively and the car did wonderfully well. I was quite impressed by the braking actually.

The thick moderately packed snow can make the car hydroplane some (more like sledding really), but reducing speed is all it takes to control it.

Final verdict for A/S 3+ in winter is fantastic for an AS tire.

Just don't try to go through snow deeper then your ground clearance allows.

[shad0wfax]

Update:

These tires kick butt on clear sheet ice and "black ice." I thought that I was on a dedicated winter tire.

Granted, you still need to drive responsibly on ice; even the best dedicated winter tire with studs will slip out on you if you hoon like a goon.

[GotV8?]

I also run these tires on my stock 19inch competition wheels and found that they do need to be broken in and in heavy rain they are as planted as the PSS tires. I have already had them over 4 months of summer, fall and snow driving hear in Ohio and still have approximately 75% tread life left. For anyone who has cold weather condition in their home time.. this is a great alternative to use. I agree with everyone that has already posted that these tires are definitely worth it.

[Xgelato]

Did anyone have problems running these tires (pilot sport a/s 3 plus) with the competition wheels?

I just installed them on my competition wheels but they are rubbing my front fenders liners every time I turn the steering wheel 180 degrees.

I do have 12 mm wheel spacers.

[L1FHR]

I just bought 4 PSS4S at Americans tire/discount tire and they only cost me $1500 plus $150 for all 4 tires. I do t get how PSSAS3 cost more