Crossroads: Track E92 M3 or Build E36 M3 for Track

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

This is also my conundrum

In a moment of genius I specced the same color as yours, Montecarlo Blue. It's beautiful.
And now I have a cloth seat, 6MT, ZCP E92 that is as close as you can get to a 'track build' with a paint job which I don't want to see hurt.

I had Xpel installed on the entire front of the car 8h after picking it up at Spatansburg, but I still can't bring myself to track it.
Even if I insure it for 70k, I don't want 70k. I want my 2013 with 12k miles on it... yet I also want to see it 'run free' at the track. That V8 must sound stupidly good bouncing off walls and I can envision it with PFC F+R BBK, MCS suspension, CAE shifter and F+R aero playing with GT3s but most importantly, giving me a huge shit eating grin in the words of Bigjae

I'm more likely to buy a truly disposable platform, like an F80, and track that when the E46 M3 which I track today gives up the ghost.

I'm currently leaning towards tracking the E46 M3 a couple more years with the addition of KW CS suspension and then getting a F80 ZCP when they're released.


Regarding streetability as some have mentioned, I think you can have a very fast E9X like I mentioned before but without the aero which is fully streatable. That's the beautiful thing about BBKs and quality suspension components.

As far as skill level is concerned, it depends who you race against. If you are racing E36 M3s then yes, a E9X will not make you a good driver as you can blow past them with power, but if your competition is Turbo S and GT3 cars then you'll have to become a good driver with the E9X.

The problem with the clear bra is it requires a lot of maintenance. Black streaks are a pain to get off even with R3 rubber remover. Then you'd have to do the whole car. I have rock chips on my back door from the track.

If you can do it...track the E92! It's fun as hell to get sideways! Stock for stock, the E9X can seem like a handful but it really is easy to slide and get the car super sideways without spinning. Unlike my E46 which if you get the car to rotate too fast, it will just spin. In the E9X, you just need to stay on the gas. The weight transfer to the back axle will get the car straight and you'll look like a superstar. The rear suspension is much better on the e9x chassis.

Oh, it's pretty damned fast!

[admranger]

Originally Posted by will.c

I would highly recommend (C) search for a race- or track-ready E36M and just drive it without worrying about anything. MUCH cheaper that way too b/c race cars sell for cents on a dollar in terms of track parts and labor. Typically ranges between $10-20k, an okay-E36M with basic track mods being close to 10, and a well-built GTS2/3 being close to 20. If you built one yourself, it will cost 20 for the former and 40-50 for the latter.

Having built a race car (e30) and bought a race car (e36M3), I can tell you that will.c is the voice of reason here. Heck, my old E36M3 race car lives in AZ now and Marty S. drives it.

However, driving a prepped car to the track (BTDT) is a pita. It's loud, hot, attracts too much attention, etc. Trailering is the way to go so budget for an X5 ($10k for a nice one nowadays) and an aluminum trailer (oops, there goes $15k). :thumb down

What about taking the middle road and prepping (coilovers, maybe a BBK, but no cage or roll bar please) an E46M3. It doesn't dance though the twisty bits like a well prepped E36M3 does, but it is still a formidable car on the track and a hell of a lot of fun to drive. Oh, and it's pretty easy to drive too, at least compared to the E9xM3 (I have one of each right now). If it's a track rat you don't need the best paint or interior or care if it has had a hit or two (minor). Just reinforce the subframe and rework the Vanos with the full Beisan kit and you're good. It's a solid track performer.

If you drive PIR, you need a really good suspension setup. Plus you want a car that won't throw you like the E9xM3 can if you get ham-footed with your right foot. You can't buff out a mistake if you screw up Nascar 4 (stay off the white line!) or the dive down into turn 1 (keep some power on -- I was flat in the E36M3 race car). Lotsa concrete poisoning awaits. Get something with MCS or Motons on it or put them on. Koni DAs are ok, but that's about it. Ohlins seemed to be valved more for the street than the track. JRZ is ok but for whatever reason they aren't the hot setup for west coast tracks. If you know Mario R., he's a wiz at car setup. Talk to him. Lotsa good drivers down there in the BMW world.

[Exclusivs]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Is part of the dilemma your devoting of the E92 to track duty? i.e. losing daily drivability?

Not at all to sound condescending, but you are aware that you can make very meaningful performance/track mods to the E92 and retain daily drivability? Especially where you live.

I've had a lot of fun with a modded & stripped out E36 M3 on track. Would not trade for E9X experience though.

No - in fact driving with fixed seats/ cage/ suspension is not something that would bother me. More concerned with wear & tear on the car long term - as the E92 is a car I see staying with me longterm. (Soft spot for this platform)

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

But the E9X M3 is a fantastic and fun car...I want to turn mine into a track car some day. The only things holding me back is its still a pretty expensive car to put into a wall and I paid $5k for individual paint which will just get raped by stones and rubber boogers.

Exactly - one of my main cautions. Or even going off course. An E36 platform you could (hopefully never) junk - and walk away. Not an E92. I too want to see my E92 a full track toy down the line - when there are other cars in the stable. Just not now.

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

I've got both an e36 and e90 similarly prepped (coilovers, brakes tires) and I have to say that it's a toss up. They actually both drive quite similarly in terms of balance and handling. The e36 corners faster and changes direction quicker and the e90 has more power.
Consumables in the e36 cost approx 1/4 less than the e90. Brakes last me 5x longer and tires last 2x longer (and they both cost less to replace). Not to mention that my entire e36 costs less than just the mods on the e90.

E36M is impressive. Though lacking in power - with the right driver - it excites. Can say I was thoroughly impressed at my last track outing in a friends E36M how nimble and well it performed. Car only has wheels/ suspension/ seats/ and stripped interior.

Originally Posted by admranger

However, driving a prepped car to the track (BTDT) is a pita. It's loud, hot, attracts too much attention, etc. Trailering is the way to go so budget for an X5 ($10k for a nice one nowadays) and an aluminum trailer (oops, there goes $15k). :thumb down

What about taking the middle road and prepping (coilovers, maybe a BBK, but no cage or roll bar please) an E46M3. It doesn't dance though the twisty bits like a well prepped E36M3 does, but it is still a formidable car on the track and a hell of a lot of fun to drive. Oh, and it's pretty easy to drive too, at least compared to the E9xM3 (I have one of each right now). If it's a track rat you don't need the best paint or interior or care if it has had a hit or two (minor). Just reinforce the subframe and rework the Vanos with the full Beisan kit and you're good. It's a solid track performer.

Agreed / but a 3rd car - and trailer are out of the question. E46 has been considered - but is significantly more then an E36, and probably out of the budget.

[AxisMagi]

You'd be surprised how much abuse the E9x can take on the track.
I've really enjoyed beating on mine for the last two seasons while learning.
If your not worried about a few paint chips it's not too
hard on the car to serve dual duty. My philosophy is if it looks good
from 20ft away on the road then it's fine with me!

BBK and perhaps camber plates are the essential track performance mods
you would need with the E9x.

That said I'm about to pull the trigger on a dedicated full time track car...
At a certain point it's the way to go.

[OC3]

Originally Posted by AxisMagi

You'd be surprised how much abuse the E9x can take on the track.
I've really enjoyed beating on mine for the last two seasons while learning.
If your not worried about a few paint chips it's not too
hard on the car to serve dual duty. My philosophy is if it looks good
from 20ft away on the road then it's fine with me!

Agreed on both counts!

[AxisMagi]

If your still thinking e36 route. I know of a guy here in AZ selling his
race prepped e36 (running in gts3 class) for a steal.

http://forums.nasaaz.com/showthread.php?t=6604

[PrimeBMW]

On one hand you have a newer and reliable car that with 10K can be very fast. Still heavy and costly to operate but easy and arrive and drive. On the other you have an older car (e36 or e46) that will likely require your to replace all the suspension parts and pieces. If you strip and lighten It can be even faster and even more fun to drive because no compromise for the street. But the older cars and more modified require a closer eye to keep safe. I have seen a number of close calls on older cars with diy mechanics. Plus race venders are a pain to work with.........ask me how I know.

[Exclusivs]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

On one hand you have a newer and reliable car that with 10K can be very fast. Still heavy and costly to operate but easy and arrive and drive. On the other you have an older car (e36 or e46) that will likely require your to replace all the suspension parts and pieces. If you strip and lighten It can be even faster and even more fun to drive because no compromise for the street. But the older cars and more modified require a closer eye to keep safe. I have seen a number of close calls on older cars with diy mechanics. Plus race venders are a pain to work with.........ask me how I know.

Agree with you on the fact that there is potential risks of failures on an older platform. Though it really all depends on the chassis you pick up/ and whose doing the work on it (or if doing yourself - to double/triple check things).