95% street / 5% track BBK recommendedation.

[Bartledoo]

Yea the Z45 rear kit with the V2 rotor sans belleville washers is noisy. The Z54 front with V3 doesn't seem to be as noisy.The retention ring setup seems to reduce motion/noise?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Yea the Z45 rear kit with the V2 rotor sans belleville washers is noisy. The Z54 front with V3 doesn't seem to be as noisy.The retention ring setup seems to reduce motion/noise?

Interesting. I have the PFC Z54/Z45 and Z31/Z31 e9x M3 brake setups. I have no rattle and/or free-play noise issues with either setup. The Z31 F and R rotors both use the V2 mounting method and no belleville washers (not sure how they’d help anyway because the twelve bolts are hard mounted to the outer hat flange and inner rotor shear tab support ring?).

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Interesting. I have the PFC Z54/Z45 and Z31/Z31 e9x M3 brake setups. I have no rattle and/or free-play noise issues with either setup. The Z31 F and R rotors both use the V2 mounting method and no belleville washers (not sure how they’d help anyway because the twelve bolts are hard mounted to the outer hat flange and inner rotor shear tab support ring?).

Well the belleville washers spring load the ring to hat floating connection, slowing down the relative motion of the two components; and I believe the washers restrict the overall axial travel available, which would make sense of why they are disadvantageous on track in addition to the extra heat transfer.

Also worth noting that I have no rear seat, rear carpet, and rear trunk floor insulation. So I get a lot more sound from back there.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Yea the Z45 rear kit with the V2 rotor sans belleville washers is noisy. The Z54 front with V3 doesn't seem to be as noisy.The retention ring setup seems to reduce motion/noise?

I've tried removing the weird washers from the Z45 kit and then it's really, really loud

The Z54 is pretty quiet for what it is

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Well the belleville washers spring load the ring to hat floating connection, slowing down the relative motion of the two components; and I believe the washers restrict the overall axial travel available, which would make sense of why they are disadvantageous on track in addition to the extra heat transfer.

Also worth noting that I have no rear seat, rear carpet, and rear trunk floor insulation. So I get a lot more sound from back there.

Never mind. I was thinking of the bolts and flat washers that mount the ring only. For some reason I forgot about the Belleville washers that sit between the ring and rotor shear tabs. I’ve always used them.

[jritt@essex]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

M3SQRD and Lienrocs
Yes, I have certainly been spoiled when it comes to brakes

I don't even change pads... I literally run pfc11 on the street.
I have to do lots of things when I get to the track and strongly try to minimize them. Every activity is a chance to screw up. The previous night I drove 4-10h after working a full day at the office, then the 1st day at the track I'm waking up at 5:15 to be set up on time, then i have to change camber, swap wheels, meet my student, empty the cars from all the stuff I've brought to the track, set up the tents, etc etc. And we take two cars every time, so all this x2.

The pads I've consumed so far in the AP kit have had lots of taper wear which I'm not used to. I assumed it was because I left the antirattle clips on and they messed something up.

I'm fine with the AP levels of noise, I was making the comment earlier that a real race kit like PFC or AP RadiCal should not be used for aesthetics, for that there are other kits that have more of a street orientation.

To my knowledge we don't have any confirmed evidence that the pad tension blocks cause any type of taper issue (or any other issue) when run on the track under typical conditions. There are a whole bunch of potential reasons for pad taper, and taper is actually very normal. Have you ever read our Essex Racing Pad Owners Guide ? I address the topic of taper in that article. Please check that out if you haven't...lots of practical tips that could help you squeeze more life out of your pads.

Here's a dumb question for you...are you positive your calipers are on the correct sides of the car? We've had about 3-4 instances over the past couple years in which the owner or their shop installed the calipers on the wrong side of the car and they saw considerable taper. It happens more than one would expect!

As others have noted, with our pad tension kit installed, NVH isn't going to be much different than a stock car in most cases (assuming you have a pad like the DS2500 in the hole).

For those who want a more OEM-like experience, we have our AP Racing by Essex Road Kits. These will still handle the heat of the occasional track session in lovely fashion.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jritt@essex

To my knowledge we don't have any confirmed evidence that the pad tension blocks cause any type of taper issue (or any other issue) when run on the track under typical conditions. There are a whole bunch of potential reasons for pad taper, and taper is actually very normal. Have you ever read our Essex Racing Pad Owners Guide ? I address the topic of taper in that article. Please check that out if you haven't...lots of practical tips that could help you squeeze more life out of your pads.

Here's a dumb question for you...are you positive your calipers are on the correct sides of the car? We've had about 3-4 instances over the past couple years in which the owner or their shop installed the calipers on the wrong side of the car and they saw considerable taper. It happens more than one would expect!

As others have noted, with our pad tension kit installed, NVH isn't going to be much different than a stock car in most cases (assuming you have a pad like the DS2500 in the hole).

For those who want a more OEM-like experience, we have our AP Racing by Essex Road Kits. These will still handle the heat of the occasional track session in lovely fashion.

Interesting. I installed them myself and I guess it's possible I screwed up and put them on the wrong side. Is there an easy way to tell?

With the pad tension kit installed NVH was at the level I expected from a top level BBK, which is definitely not quiet like stock but easily livable.

I noticed you guys took out the more street oriented line, good idea as that is what most people need

[jritt@essex]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Interesting. I installed them myself and I guess it's possible I screwed up and put them on the wrong side. Is there an easy way to tell?

With the pad tension kit installed NVH was at the level I expected from a top level BBK, which is definitely not quiet like stock but easily livable.

I noticed you guys took out the more street oriented line, good idea as that is what most people need

On your car, the piston at the top of the caliper (towards the sky) should be the smaller one, and the piston on the bottom should be larger.

Thanks!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jritt@essex

On your car, the piston at the top of the caliper (towards the sky) should be the smaller one, and the piston on the bottom should be larger.

Thanks!

Unfortunately that's how they were installed. The small piston is in the top on both sides of the car

[MisterClutch888]

For 95% street / 5% track, anyone runs stock disc, slightly aggressive pads, stainless lines and like motul/castrol/ate fluid?

[slowdown_dan]

Originally Posted by MisterClutch888

For 95% street / 5% track, anyone runs stock disc, slightly aggressive pads, stainless lines and like motul/castrol/ate fluid?

Anything more is overkill. What's 5% track equal out to me? 2-3 track days a year?

[slowdown_dan]

Stainless lines = better pedal feel is a myth in these cars. What happens when you change lines? New fluid. What is the number one contributor to spongy pedal feel? Old fluid.

If your oem lines are old and need to be replaced anyways, stainless can make sense.

[slowdown_dan]

Brass caliper pin guides will clean up any vague pedal feel 100x more than ss lines will, but if you dd the car and don't like going into your brakes monthly to clean and lube those pins that might not be a good idea.

[pbonsalb]

I have been running brass caliper guide pins for several years and do not need to clean them and lube them monthly. More like every 10k miles of street use.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by butte2butte

Stainless lines = better pedal feel is a myth in these cars. What happens when you change lines? New fluid. What is the number one contributor to spongy pedal feel? Old fluid.

If your oem lines are old and need to be replaced anyways, stainless can make sense.

he's right you know dot morgan freeman dot meme

[slowdown_dan]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I have been running brass caliper guide pins for several years and do not need to clean them and lube them monthly. More like every 10k miles of street use.

That's awesome to hear. I just got mine a few months ago. I've read you should take care of them often since there's no dust boots and tight tolerances, so I just wipe them down and lube them up when I'm swapping pads from street to track, and back. Sounds like if you've got a street only set up, you don't really need to worry about a maintenance schedule as often as I'm messing with my brakes.

[MisterClutch888]

so cant reuse the oem plastic caps for where the guide pins were?

For 95% street / 5% track, anyone runs stock disc, slightly aggressive pads, stainless lines and like motul/castrol/ate fluid? So for this, any recommendation for pads? Stoptech? Hawks?

brake fluid, ate type 200 or motul 5.1?

[slowdown_dan]

Originally Posted by MisterClutch888

so cant reuse the oem plastic caps for where the guide pins were?

For 95% street / 5% track, anyone runs stock disc, slightly aggressive pads, stainless lines and like motul/castrol/ate fluid? So for this, any recommendation for pads? Stoptech? Hawks?

brake fluid, ate type 200 or motul 5.1?

No need to screw around with any other fluid than srf or endless if you're going to spend even 1-2 days a year at the track. You'd probably boil over either of the fluids you mentioned.

Stock discs are fine for a light track use, if you know it's only ever going to be an occasional thing.

Again, lines are a total waste of money performance wise unless your current ones are in dire need of replacing. Oem lines are steel lined, they DONT expand. SS lines are a safety measure in wheel to wheel racing where debris on the track could cut your line.

Pads: everyone told me to run ferado DS2500's for my first day couple days. I did. Didn't have any issues and am able to run them on the street with maybe only the lightest of squeaks every few times out.

Now I run ds.uno in the front on track day, and will likely move to ds.uno in the year before my next track day as well because confidence is up and lap times are down.

[XKxRome0ox]

i feel like this thread is calling me out
originally i had grand plans to track my car at least a couple times a year

and i had read on the forum that the stock brakes were the "weak link" and needed to be upgraded if one wants to track the m3
so i got ST60 for the front, left the rear alone

i only made it to 1 track day so far
swapped in track pads, brakes were great
but i think i would have been fine with the stock brakes and the ST60 is definitely overkill for me

so i spent good money on a nice red BBK to make the car look better

[W12x]

Nothing wrong with having a front BBK and make the car look better, I probably won't track my M3 but tempted to get a front only BBK for it at some point (although those FCP Euro lifetime rotors are tempting)

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

i feel like this thread is calling me out
originally i had grand plans to track my car at least a couple times a year

and i had read on the forum that the stock brakes were the "weak link" and needed to be upgraded if one wants to track the m3
so i got ST60 for the front, left the rear alone

i only made it to 1 track day so far
swapped in track pads, brakes were great
but i think i would have been fine with the stock brakes and the ST60 is definitely overkill for me

so i spent good money on a nice red BBK to make the car look better