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      08-06-2008, 02:42 AM   #1
jeremyr4
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E46 M3 Convertible To E93 M3 - Concerns and Questions

I have read a lot of press articles recently about the E93 M3 and most (almost all) have bashed the E93 M3 for being too heavy. Although I know it's pretty obvious that the hardtop is heavy, I am disappointed by how heavy the E93 M3 is relative to the E46 M3 Convertible. I say this because I have been waiting for a quite a while for the E93 M3 to come out, having owned 3 E46 M3 Convertibles (01 6-speed, 04 SMG, 06 SMG (current)), and I never thought it would be as bulky as it is. One of the things I like best about my E46 M3 Convertible is that is feels very light and small, which makes it much more enjoyable to drive than a M6 Convertible, which is just too heavy and is basically a GT. Problem with the E93 M3 is that it borders on the GT range of weight, which makes me wonder how it will drive.

I'm very curious to hear impressions from other E46 M3 Convertible owners who have either traded up to an E93 M3 or who have test-driven the E93 M3 to see if they felt like the E93 M3 feels significantly heavier than the E46 M3 Convertible and to hear whether the awesome new V8 (I have driven a 6-speed coupe and I was blown away by the new engine - amazing) makes up for the added weight in terms of power and fun-to-drive? I don't expect it to be as nimble as the coupe but I'n hoping that the E93 M3 doesn't feel like a GT.

Would anyone care to share their thoughts? I sincerely appreciate everyone's input in advance, as I am considering ordering an '09. Of course, test driving an E93 M3 would be optimal but it's a LOT easier said than done in Los Angeles...

Thanks for everyone's help,
Jeremy
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      08-06-2008, 08:23 AM   #2
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I never owned or drove an e46 m3 but i bought the e93 m3 in manual. After driving the sedan and owning the convertible on the streets the only thing that i notice is that when the top is down the acceleration feels slower and like its dragging. In terms of handling i would never notice the difference on the street, althoug im not a all out tracking my car kind of guy. All of that being said its a hardtop convertible it goes from coupe to convertible and although it obviously will not perform exactly like the coupe it performs the way you think an m3 should. If you want a convertible get the convertible there will be a million times you wished you could have dropped the top and very few times youll think i wish i could have accelerated 0.3 seconds faster.
Just my .02 cents
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      08-06-2008, 08:37 AM   #3
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I haven't driven the E93 M3 yet, but I have driven the E93 335i which is also pretty heavy. To me, BMW did a great job of hiding the weight. Of course you can feel it compared to an E90 or E92 but the car by no means felt clumsy. And it did not feel slower than the E90 335i either. Oh and as far as compared to my E46 M3 vert, it did not feel noticeably heavier than that either.

If you can't find an E93 M3 to test drive in L.A., at least find a E93 335i and try it back to back with an E92 335i. Then you'll at least have some idea of how the weight effects things, and can decide from there if you should bother to hunt down a E93 M3 to try out.
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      08-06-2008, 09:00 AM   #4
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I used to drive a friends E46 M3 Vert quite a lot back in the day, and I can say I like the E93 handling better, feels firmer and tighter to me! If you want convertible, get it! You won't regret it. Like the other guy said above, you will regret not being able to drop the top a lot more then you will regret loosing that .3 seconds between 0-60.
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      08-06-2008, 09:08 AM   #5
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No doubt the E93 M3 is heavier, slower, does not handle as well as the E90/E92. But then again, here are a few things to remember. You are not buying a track car or you would buy a stripped E92. I assume you are not planning on drag racing people often. If you are, winning is more skill than pure power assuming the car are close in HP. You are buying a convertible because you love cruising around in an awesome car witha beautiful sounding engine that handles like a knife while enjoying an unobstructive view of the world around you and listening to the beautiful V8. So don't worry about weight, performance, etc. It is not up to the E90/E92 levels. But it is not very far either. For more daily situations, whatever edge the E90/E92 may have on the E93 would not even be noticeable.

Don't worry, be happy. Or just buy an E92/E90 and end the worrying.
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      08-06-2008, 09:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knifegun View Post
No doubt the E93 M3 is heavier, slower, does not handle as well as the E90/E92. But then again, here are a few things to remember. You are not buying a track car or you would buy a stripped E92. I assume you are not planning on drag racing people often. If you are, winning is more skill than pure power assuming the car are close in HP. You are buying a convertible because you love cruising around in an awesome car witha beautiful sounding engine that handles like a knife while enjoying an unobstructive view of the world around you and listening to the beautiful V8. So don't worry about weight, performance, etc. It is not up to the E90/E92 levels. But it is not very far either. For more daily situations, whatever edge the E90/E92 may have on the E93 would not even be noticeable.

Don't worry, be happy. Or just buy an E92/E90 and end the worrying.

+1
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      08-06-2008, 09:49 AM   #7
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I had an 03 e46m3 vert(SMG) for 3 years and after a month with my e93 I am very happy with the choice. That being said, this car is closer to a GT then the relatively light and darty e46. It still feels quick but is more refined, and like other people have said, if you like verts then you will not be dissapointed.
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      08-06-2008, 09:56 AM   #8
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I owned a 2002 M3 Cab.... The thing weighed 3800 pounds, it was a porker, people just didn't realize it at the time.

The E93 M3 is also a porker.....no way around this. It is a cruising car for the mountain roads and not suitable for the track.
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      08-06-2008, 10:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
I owned a 2002 M3 Cab.... The thing weighed 3800 pounds, it was a porker, people just didn't realize it at the time.

The E93 M3 is also a porker.....no way around this. It is a cruising car for the mountain roads and not suitable for the track.
+1, I drive my buddies e46 M3 vert and every time I get in her the notice between that and the e46 coupe is like night and day. But if you want a vert, performance shouldn't be your number one concern, so just get her, there is no way the e46 vert handles better than the e93. NO WAY.
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      08-06-2008, 11:37 AM   #10
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Wow - Thanks...

...to everyone who already gave their feedback, This was my first post on this board (I used to be on Roadfly) and I sincerely appreciate it.

The reason why I am asking is because I tend to drive my car pretty hard. For example, my car's avg MPG right is about 15.9, which is MUCH lower than most simply because I tend to stay in gear longer vs. shifting, as I love the way the E46 M3 Convertible drives. Of course, I'm not saying it would hold a candle to the coupe but it still feels relatively nimble and the engine is great.

My concern about the E93 M3 is that adding 300 pounds would detract from the "nimbleness" of the car, especially after all of the press articles that I have read. I honestly don't remember reading any negative articles about the E46 M3 Convertible's weight (I think it was ~3791 lbs) but everyone seems to be highlighting it in the E93 M3 articles (~4100 lbs). Weight is the primary reason why I didn't like the M6 Convertible and that's why the added weight on the E93 M3 Convertible concerns me, especially for the price.

I might live in Los Angeles and I might drive a convertible but, contrary to most around here, my biggest concern is how the car drives, as I tend to drive it pretty hard. I actually had a 997 S Convertible with Tiptronic that I bought and sold in record time (4 months - never done that before - thank God I bought it used and broke even) because the Tiptronic transmission sucked and as a result I didn't like the ride. Bottom line - for me it's about performance + top down - not looks. Otherwise I would be in a used 997 S, M6, or SL55, the cars of choice around here which in luckily I can afford to drive but they just don't have the same fun-to-drive factor in my opinion (at least not in automatic transmission form)...

Anyhow, thanks again for the feedback to-date. If there are any other E46 M3 Convertible to E93 M3 owners that could comment I would sincerely appreciate, as I don't take these type of decisions lightly...

Thanks again,
Jeremy
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      08-06-2008, 12:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyr4 View Post
My concern about the E93 M3 is that adding 300 pounds would detract from the "nimbleness" of the car, especially after all of the press articles that I have read. I honestly don't remember reading any negative articles about the E46 M3 Convertible's weight (I think it was ~3791 lbs) but everyone seems to be highlighting it in the E93 M3 articles (~4100 lbs). Weight is the primary reason why I didn't like the M6 Convertible and that's why the added weight on the E93 M3 Convertible concerns me, especially for the price.

Honestly resign yourself that it will be a good 4100 pound car, it will drive well and be more concerned over spilt lattes than the performance of the car.
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      08-06-2008, 03:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Honestly resign yourself that it will be a good 4100 pound car, it will drive well and be more concerned over spilt lattes than the performance of the car.
+1. Coming from an E46 (granted, it was just a 330Ci 'vert) I expected to be able to feel the weight of the E93, but I really don't. They're two totally different cars (structurally). The E93 feels way more solid, handles worlds better, and the engine + tranny are sublime. Seriously. Pics of my car here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160891

And, finally, this isn't aimed at you, but at people who keep lamenting over the E93 being slower and heavier. I ask one question -- Heavier than WHAT?! Heavier than the E90 or E92 M3s? Well of COURSE it's heavier -- it's a convertible. Compare apples to apples. The E93 M3 is a kick-ass convertible -- especially when compared to other four-seat convertibles. Compare it's performance to cars in the appropriate category, and I'm sure it comes out ahead.
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      08-06-2008, 05:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post
Honestly resign yourself that it will be a good 4100 pound car, it will drive well and be more concerned over spilt lattes than the performance of the car.
What can I say. I'm a VERY rare breed who wants to be able to put the top down AND drive hard because of the weather in Los Angeles. I think many people can't understand that because they don't equate convertibles with performance. But that's exactly why I'm trying to be sure that the E93 M3 is a good replacement for someone who drives an E46 M3 Convertible BECAUSE of its performance and NOT in-spite of it compared to the coupe.

And, of course, my concern is whether a 4,100 pound car can actually be good! I was pleasantly surprised that the 3,800 pound E46 M3 Convertible is good but I'm now concerned with the E93 Convertible's weight gain...

Interestingly, a serious contender for me is the '09 997 S Convertible w/PDK. It's not as convenient of a daily driver and I love M DNA but it's a hell of a lot lighter! Of course it's too early to tell how it drives, as it won't be out for a few more months...
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      08-06-2008, 06:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyr4 View Post
What can I say. I'm a VERY rare breed who wants to be able to put the top down AND drive hard because of the weather in Los Angeles. I think many people can't understand that because they don't equate convertibles with performance. But that's exactly why I'm trying to be sure that the E93 M3 is a good replacement for someone who drives an E46 M3 Convertible BECAUSE of its performance and NOT in-spite of it compared to the coupe.

And, of course, my concern is whether a 4,100 pound car can actually be good! I was pleasantly surprised that the 3,800 pound E46 M3 Convertible is good but I'm now concerned with the E93 Convertible's weight gain...

Interestingly, a serious contender for me is the '09 997 S Convertible w/PDK. It's not as convenient of a daily driver and I love M DNA but it's a hell of a lot lighter! Of course it's too early to tell how it drives, as it won't be out for a few more months...

It is very hard to get the flavor of a car driving it on the streets. I tracked my E46 M3 a couple of times and it was horrible.

Overran the tires and brakes, you could definitely feel the weight, the cowl shake

I am sure the E93 would be better on the track but at 4100 pounds, I don't imagine it would be fun.
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      08-06-2008, 07:47 PM   #15
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I sold my 2002 E46 M3 convert for the new E93. I love it. Still fast and fun to drive hard. But it is more refined. No more squeaks and rattles. Your gas mileage will suffer. I currently get 12 mpg and the gas light goes on at 160 miles. The roar of the V8 with the top down is awesome. I live in South FL and a conv is a must!
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      08-06-2008, 11:20 PM   #16
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Although I've never driven an E46 (M, regular 3 series, 'vert, or otherwise), I've owned my E93 for almost a month, and it is truly amazing performance wise. I agree with The Bry's post above, the only people who seem to have a problem with its weight, handling are people who compare it to the coupe/sedan, which is quite frankly a ridiculous comparison. The car is immensely more fun and fast than any of those reviews suggest, and the vast majority if not all posts I've seen on this forum and others criticizing its performance come from people who have never even driven it.

Believe me, you can drive this car very hard, the acceleration/handling absolutely kills the vast majority of most other (and much lighter) cars out on the road, and I've never heard or felt any of these so-called "cowl shakes," rattles or squeaks - I've driven other convertibles which do have squeaks or have noticeable cowl shake over bumps/hard turns - but my E93 has not even slightly displayed such behavior.

I've also driven a stock E90 335xi (yes, sedan, not 'vert, and supposedly the xi accelerates faster than the rear-drive i) and the E93 feels much faster acceleration-wise (according to Edmunds, whose 0-60 times seem slighly slower than other sources, 0-60 with M DCT is 4.8 from dead stop, 4.6 with the one-foot rolling start most American car magazines use (vs. 4.8-5.0 for stock 335i coupe/sedan, presumably with 1 foot rolling start). And if the E93 M3 feels much faster than the 335xi, I can't imagine the huge difference between it and the 335i 'vert (by the way, I think I'm speaking on behalf of all E93 M3 owners who are tired of hearing "oh, if you want a 'vert, you should just get the 335i" - what a bunch of crap - just look at fastestlaps.com for the Autozeitung track where the E93 M3 completely killed the 335i, outlapped many other non-convertible cars on that track, Audi S5, E60 M5, several non-convertible AMG's, was very close to the RS4 sedan (on another track on fastestlaps.com, it also outlapped the CLK63 AMG vert and RS4 vert - imagine how huge the difference would be vs. the 335i 'vert)!!! [By the way, I honestly don't mean any offense to stock 335i owners - they're fantastic cars, and while my comments might sound arrogant, stock 335i to M3 is an apples-to-oranges comparison, so I don't think this is a "rip" on the 335]. Don't you find it interesting that none of the naysayers back up their criticisms with any lap times that are currently available, particularly when the lap times are better than so many other non-convertibles?

I've also driven the E92 6MT (which I kept under 5.5k rpms - and under 5.5K on public roads, I could not perceive any noticeable difference in acceleration/handling). I have no doubt the coupe/sedan are in fact faster, but if you combine the drop-top with no perceptible difference in performance on the street, who the heck cares if it's a few tenths slower - particularly with no squeaks, rattles, shakes, or that other nonsense I have yet to experience driving the car pretty hard myself!!

Finally, I've driven a 2005 E55 AMG - and I swear my vert feels only slightly (but barely) slower acceleration wise.

I cannot imagine how you'd be disappointed with the performance of this car, especially with the revs at 4k or higher - it is a beast!! I know you're interested in 6MT, but if you're crusing at 55mph in S5 in third gear and hit the gas, it WILL slam you back in your seat, notwithstanding all the "portly" comments the car gets from reviewers who insist on comparing it to non-convertible performance cars - if you test drive this car, you'll also be wondering what the heck these reviewers are talking about suggesting its performance is lackluster or somewhat disappointing - sorry, but a complete load of crap based on my experience.

I agree with the other posts above, as I would have huge regrets not being able to drop the top, and no regrets sacrificing a performance gain that in the overwhelming majority of driving circumstances would not even be noticed.

Sorry again everyone, but I can't let people keep kicking the E93 around when the evidence and personal experience show that it deserves far more positive recognition than it has been getting. GET THE 'VERT!!!
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      08-07-2008, 08:06 AM   #17
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Just go DRIVE it and then you will know, i garuntee its more sporty and more aggresive and better handling than your e46
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      08-07-2008, 01:29 PM   #18
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I say we throw a parade for Powerslide! He summed up in a few paragraphs what I've been trying to say for months. The E93 M3 bears the ///M badge because it's worthy of the moniker. And when compared to other four-seat (and in some cases two-seat) convertibles, it completely blows them away.

The fact that the car weighs 4100 pounds yet handles as sublimely as it does is testament to the engineering prowess of the ///M division of BMW.
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      08-07-2008, 01:36 PM   #19
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While I don't own the M3 version, the E93 is the best decision I made. Sure I sometimes wish I had a stripped 6-MT track purpose car...but how often would I have gone to the track? not many times...and the times that I drop the top is almost countless....the grin I get when I'm just cruising in the evenings and looking at the sky at night.....just thankful I made the right decision

You can't go wrong man...trust me....I've driven the coupe and the vert. Once a vert guy, always a vert guy
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      08-08-2008, 07:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBry View Post
I say we throw a parade for Powerslide! He summed up in a few paragraphs what I've been trying to say for months. The E93 M3 bears the ///M badge because it's worthy of the moniker. And when compared to other four-seat (and in some cases two-seat) convertibles, it completely blows them away.

The fact that the car weighs 4100 pounds yet handles as sublimely as it does is testament to the engineering prowess of the ///M division of BMW.
Thanks Bry! And to all others on this forum, I hope I didn't sound too crazy in that post - I'm just not the type who will blindly accept another person's opinion simply because "everyone has a right to an opinion." Although many posts on this forum contain very well-reasoned, well supported opinions/preferences on various issues, a lot of posts also seem to reference opinions that are offered in an irrelevant context, lack factual support or worse yet, completely contradict any available data on the subject.

The most annoying opinion is from those who don't want or own a convertible, and then take the position that nobody else should be allowed to have a convertible version of the M... first of all, 1) why not; and 2) why would anyone care, particularly if nobody is stopping you from getting the coupe or sedan version? [sorry, here I go again...]. If "M" is strictly about performance, why should BMW make any M cars that have a back seat (M5, M6, M3 any version). Ever seen a Formula 1 racing car with a back seat - or even a front passenger seat (let alone with nice novillo leather), 6-disk CD changer, air conditioner, navigation system, floor mats, satellite radio, premium audio?!?! Do you think the M3 GTR coupe has all this extra crap in it? If not, then why does your "compromised" coupe/sedan have it? I think BMW shouldn't be allowed to make any M car (nor should anyone be allowed to buy one) other than a stripped-down M coupe with the S85 V-10 engine - because after all, the back seat, extra crap and smaller engines are just a "compromise" on performance, right??? From now on, nobody is allowed to have fun with any kind of back-seat, extra-crap equipped "compromised" sports car unless they get advance permission from all the self-appointed defenders of the "pure M" concept... [ok - I admit that I definitely got carried away there - but my point has been made]...

Now I'm going to go buy a flame-retardant suit before any responses come back...

P.S. - has anyone heard if BMW is going to offer an E93 M3 CSL with a carbon-fiber retractable hard-top? I'll bet it would only weigh 3,900 lbs, and just wait till you see the track times for that sucker!!!
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      08-08-2008, 08:56 AM   #21
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Get what your heart desires. It will be you who will be driving (and paying for) it. Test drive and compare. Happy shopping.
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      08-08-2008, 05:28 PM   #22
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Gone for 2 days and a ton of posts. Thanks for everyone's input.

Bry, I agree fully with you re. the convertible. I've been driving one for years in Los Angeles and I find it funny that everyone on these boards things that all convertible drivers are posers. I actually sold my 997 Carrera S Convertible for a E46 M3 Convertible because of the way it drives - not looks. The Porsche is a much better looking car but I prefer the M drive. Also, I drive so hard that it's pretty much not possible anyone in an M coupe or sedan to drive much harder, as I'm always above the speed limit. I actually drive harder than anyone I know with an M3 - coupe, convertible, or sedan. So I couldn't agree more about your comments.

Well, as others have said, trying it will be the best test but that's simply very, very difficult in my market (especially given that I need to try DCT). I put my concerns out there because my experience is that when you read the same thing from MANY different sources then it tends to be true. Which is why I'm still curious to hear from someone who has gone from an E46 M3 Convertible to an E93 Convertible...

Thanks again for everyone's help,
Jeremy
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