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      07-13-2015, 08:17 PM   #1
tony20009
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Something from Nothing

Has anyone here looked into the recent "no boundary" models of the universe's origin? I've only just begun to read about it, but if I get what I've been reading, it seems the idea obviates the need for the universe having begun with a singularity, or more surprisingly, a beginning or for that matter an end!

That's quite shocking and more than just "a little thing" around which to "wrap one's head." At least it's not easy for me to wrap my head around it.

That said, for those who are interested in exploring the current state of "something from nothing" theories, here are some links that are a good start:
The reason I shared the info/links above is that I've long subscribed to the "something cannot come from nothing" view of things' existence/creation. Even so, upon learning that perhaps that view, and/or what constitutes "nothing" and "something," may not be as "plain as day" as it seems, I chose to explore the matter further. No, I'm not "sold" on the no-boundary ideas, but I'm not ready to discard them either. I'm not of a mind that what I and eons of men before me have thought to be "the way things are" must be right. In fact, I don't mind if we are wrong because what really have I lost if I find I, like many people, have been mistaken? Nothing that I can tell.

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      07-14-2015, 09:32 AM   #2
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Very nice write up. I've read a little on this subject, but not into that much depth.

From what my simple mind can deduce: they're saying that the "nothing" is really a vacuum and a combination of particles and antiparticles whose effects cancel each other out, meaning we can't observe it.

That being said, the statement "from nothing, nothing comes" is still true.

Of course, that poses the question: where did those particles and antiparticles come from? We know our universe isn't eternal, so they can't have existed forever.

I'll have to do more research of course until I understand this theory a little more, but on it's face it's just describing a possibility for the theory of the Big Bang.

Doesn't really conflict with my theology

Always interesting what physics can bring up.
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      07-16-2015, 04:20 AM   #3
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the problem as I see it is you won't find a complete and proven thought in any origin theory. And being proven isn't the problem, it's the complete thought that is. As noted in the first link, it's the definitions that keep changing or aren't clear, or are but are misconstrued.
How nothing is nothingness?
What defines matter?
Etc.

The mathematics behind all the entropy theories can't be proven and will always be theory. For that simple fact it should not be discussed further. Why it is used to try and back up or disprove anything is beyond me. It will always serve to disprove if enough variables are used.

Where the definitions and actions come to the biggest problem is Newtons First Law.

I would say that is there were a zero point that it would have to be the point at which all motion stops, temperature is Absolute Zero (which also stops motion), ... and the thing I don't know is if magnetism stops? I assume it would and if that's the case ... no temp, no movement, no forces of any kind ... then the First Law becomes only theory and Newtonian Physics as a whole is corrupted. But can be mended.


But even if we knew would it change anything?
No.
All it would do is give proof that the Trillions spent trying to prove it were not spent in vein.
... Because it's not like all that money could have gone for more productive things.
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