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      04-01-2018, 08:18 AM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftflo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
Might be a silly question, but does gear/bearing polishing have any impact in noise at all? Not clunking, but diff whine.
whine normally comes from worn out bearings.
if fresh bearings or the gearset itself make significant noises this is due to incorrect installation. and if this is the case, the solution is not polishing but setting it properly!
i would not expect too much from any surface treatment in a bmw 210 rear axle.
but if you have the budget and are searching for the last tenth of a second in performance, why not!
but for noise reduction only i definitely would not suggest to spend that money.
In my case, i had some nasty whine from incorrect pinion bearing preload.

If you put your diff back in the car and it is whining, LOUD, it was probably set up improperly. Granted, i have solid everything with no rear, but still i knew something was off. Pulled it back out and got it redone, and it sounded like it was supposed to.

I did not get any treatment, as Florian and i discussed it does not really do much in regards to a part time track car. If it was a full blown race car, in which i was doing enduro and long stints i may have done a polish.
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      04-04-2018, 12:20 AM   #266
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i'm kinda curious if the bearing/gear polishing could extend the life of the clutches... less heat generally means a longer service intervals.
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      04-04-2018, 02:51 AM   #267
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the clutches wear due to dynamic friction. heat is not that important for them.
i am pretty sure that it has no relevant influence on clutch wear!
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      07-25-2018, 04:06 PM   #268
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as promised here are a few pics and infos on the m2 and m4 diff conversions that i recently did:

here you see the OE pumpkin with the active m-diff:


on the left an untouched pumpkin and on the right three already removed active lsd cores:


next up the welded ringgear needs to be separated from the lsd core:


surface need to be shaved perfectly even:


then holes are drilled and threads cut:


now it is time to build the drexler lsd core... here with my special "GT race" setup that is also available for m3 e92 of course... drilled clutches, weight optimized pressure rings, ... nice stuff in there!


installed in the pumpkin and with properly set dynamic friction and backlash it looks like this:



if you want to see some more pics just click here:
http://www.limitedslip.de/service/ei...rexler_m4.html
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      07-26-2018, 08:50 AM   #269
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this thread is awesome. i did a lot of rear diff research for my evo, went with a cusco 1.5 type RS, which I think functions relatively similar to OSG. I think all the salisbury clutch diffs are similar though
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      07-27-2018, 09:27 PM   #270
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Impressive work driftflo

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      07-28-2018, 12:25 AM   #271
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driftflo what is the theory with the drilled clutch plates? oil evacuates out of there sooner for faster lockup once it starts?

also, are any of these setups significantly less weight than oem? i don't know if they are or not, but i figure any less rotating mass in the driveline is going to help.
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      07-28-2018, 04:29 AM   #272
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the holes improve oilflow between the clutches. so the transition from lock to open and vice versa will happen smoother. the car behaves less aggressive without compromising the (locking) performance.

you can save ~10% of weight compared to the OE LSD. and as this is rotating mass it does add some small amount of performance. not much, but it is a nice side effect you get while improving the lsd performance.

OS giken is even heavier as the OE unit. drexler slightly lighter. the lightest core is the bacci romano one but this one needs special output flanges that do add some weight again. and it is not capable of taking so many clutches as the drexler does. so you could make the drexler a little lighter still if you remove some internals (that would downgrade the performance)... so that does not make sense!

Last edited by driftflo; 07-28-2018 at 04:57 AM..
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      07-28-2018, 04:49 AM   #273
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driftflo, you're the man. i appreciate you sharing this with us. when the time comes for me to upgrade, we'll be talking!
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      07-28-2018, 09:24 PM   #274
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Hi, I was informed that running traction control (MDM mode) while on track is actually harmful if you have an OS Giken LSD. Is that true?
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      07-29-2018, 02:05 AM   #275
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      07-29-2018, 11:37 AM   #276
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I have a DCT car and I believe it's the diff thats making some bad noises and clunks. What would you reccomend for a street car that see's a ton of very hard spirited driving? Is the 3.45 available? Is Wavetrac a good choice for a car like this?
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      07-29-2018, 05:32 PM   #277
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The 3.45 has worked fine without any rev match issues? Im assuming you didn't tune the dct. I have heard mixed reviews on the Quaife so I would like some more input.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Post View Post
I put a Quaife LSD and a 3.45 rear end in mine. Yes, I can recommend that combo for a street car that sees a ton of very hard spirited driving. www.diffsonline.com sells a 3:45 for the DCT as well as other ring gear ratios. I have no experience with Wavetrac. No doubt our knowledgeable member = dirftflo does. The Quaife LSD is robust, and does not have clutch packs nor the shear fluid pack that the Viscolok OEM M3 LSD setup has. Just some food for thought for you on your research journey.
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      07-30-2018, 01:49 AM   #278
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a torsen like wavetrac or quaife is better than the OE viscolok. if you have no direct comparison to a clutch type drexler, you will be happy. if you have, you will always opt for the clutch type unit.
this is the reason you read mixed experience with torsens. the ones that have no comparison do like it, the others are disappointed.

people often want a torsen because they are advertised as "maintenance-free". but this does not mean they are "wear-free". they do wear and if they are worn out they need to be completely replaced and cannot be rebuilt like a clutch type unit.

if you want to go the torsen route anyway, i'd suggest the wavetrac over the quaife. wavetrac is the best torsen unit out there.
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      07-30-2018, 05:03 AM   #279
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Great to know! I was considering the 3 clutch style as I've read that's good for street and hard driving as well. I'm just hung up one how it will effect the transmission.


Quote:
Originally Posted by driftflo View Post
a torsen like wavetrac or quaife is better than the OE viscolok. if you have no direct comparison to a clutch type drexler, you will be happy. if you have, you will always opt for the clutch type unit.
this is the reason you read mixed experience with torsens. the ones that have no comparison do like it, the others are disappointed.

people often want a torsen because they are advertised as "maintenance-free". but this does not mean they are "wear-free". they do wear and if they are worn out they need to be completely replaced and cannot be rebuilt like a clutch type unit.

if you want to go the torsen route anyway, i'd suggest the wavetrac over the quaife. wavetrac is the best torsen unit out there.
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      08-01-2018, 03:11 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycplumber View Post
Great to know! I was considering the 3 clutch style as I've read that's good for street and hard driving as well. I'm just hung up one how it will effect the transmission.
i would not recommend any asymetric setup. 3 clutchpacks mean, you have one on one side and two on the other.
i'd at least use 4 clutchpacks PLUS a cupspring. currently i still have two 45% rebuild kits (4 clutchpacks, cupspring, installation instructions) available at my local US distributor. you only need an old 210 zf lsd core as a basis.
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      08-01-2018, 11:00 PM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftflo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nycplumber View Post
Great to know! I was considering the 3 clutch style as I've read that's good for street and hard driving as well. I'm just hung up one how it will effect the transmission.
i would not recommend any asymetric setup. 3 clutchpacks mean, you have one on one side and two on the other.
i'd at least use 4 clutchpacks PLUS a cupspring. currently i still have two 45% rebuild kits (4 clutchpacks, cupspring, installation instructions) available at my local US distributor. you only need an old 210 zf lsd core as a basis.
Do I need to machine the end plate for a 4 clutch + cup spring kit?
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      08-02-2018, 08:18 AM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftflo View Post
i would not recommend any asymetric setup. 3 clutchpacks mean, you have one on one side and two on the other.
i'd at least use 4 clutchpacks PLUS a cupspring. currently i still have two 45% rebuild kits (4 clutchpacks, cupspring, installation instructions) available at my local US distributor. you only need an old 210 zf lsd core as a basis.
I'm looking to buy a complete unit. Where can I find that 4 clutch set up and is this what you would recommend for a street car that see's a ton of abuse?
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      08-08-2018, 04:08 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Do I need to machine the end plate for a 4 clutch + cup spring kit?
yes! but it is definitely worth the extra effort!
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      08-08-2018, 04:10 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycplumber View Post
I'm looking to buy a complete unit. Where can I find that 4 clutch set up and is this what you would recommend for a street car that see's a ton of abuse?
pn me and i will give you the contact of my US distributor. i guess he can provide a complete unit with my internals installed.
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      08-09-2018, 01:50 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftflo View Post
as promised here are a few pics and infos on the m2 and m4 diff conversions that i recently did:

here you see the OE pumpkin with the active m-diff:
I recently sealed up my diff for the first time and even though I laid out a relatively thin bead of gasket maker (Permatex Ultra Black), by the amount of goop that squeezed out on the outside after sealing, I'm sure there's even more on the inside. I assume that even if it breaks off on the inside, it'll be harmless to the gears/LSD?
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      08-20-2018, 08:05 AM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftflo View Post
hey guys,

i just started (dis-)assembling and testing some aftermarket clutch-type lsd options for the M3.


competitors i got here so far:

- gkn viscolok (the stock unit)
- os giken superlock spec-s (and custom spec... see below)
- drexler gt4 light
- titan traction master
- bacci romano
- zf (which i modified and tuned to my own spec)

i put some pictures of each unit on my website:
http://www.m3racing.de/sperre.html
(text only in german so far... maybe i'll translate it someday)


still missing:

- cusco
- ???


what i've tested so far:


after driving (and drifting) some thousand miles with my stock gkn viscolok unit i was sure to need a proper torque sensing clutch-type lsd which will react and lock/unlock way quicker and with direct connection to gas pedal movements. the viscolok is a really slow performer who locks and unlocks slowly and smoothly.
quite ok for non-performance street driving and slippery, snowy road conditions. but annoying when driving on the track or drifting the car where you need direct control and quick response of your rear axle behaviour.




i first tried the os giken superlock spec-s unit. it fitted perfectly into the rear axle housing, no additional shimming was required. build quality, materials used and the surface finishing is really thumbs up.
but once installed i was pretty much disappointed on the locking capabilities: it hardly locked at all... it simply felt like an open unit.
after discussing with the supplier and manufacturer we were pretty sure that the neg. preload setup was to high. i got some new pressure plates and a different setup suggestion. i am really curious an how it will perform in the new spec which i will assemble these days as i am pretty convinced of the general design and the negative preload idea in theory. i guess i will only need to find a proper setup (which should normally be done by the manufacturer but well...)




right now i am driving the drexler gt4 light unit (out of the M3 GT4 competition model) with the steeper of the two rampsets, more lockup on decel and no preload. it performs a lot better than the above but still doesn't lock as hard as i would want to. so i will flip the center section to get more lockup on accel or i could use the other rampset... i am still thinking on what setup i will try next.
build quality is quite high as well... and it also fitted perfectly without the need to re-shim.



i have two more "competitors" laying around here already:


a titan traction master lsd unit which i got with a set of sinter-coated discs. but as i know the sinter-stuff from my other cars already i am looking forward to get a set of carbon-coated discs soon. i will try this unit with the carbondiscs then! it has some preload and i opted for the symmetrical 2-way ramps.




and last but not least i have an old friend of mine here as well. an "old" zf lsd unit from a M5 E39 which also fits into the E92 rear axle. but as this unit locks quite weak in stock configuration, i am massively modifying this unit to fit more clutchpacks and/or use different ramp angles. this unit is performing well if modified correctly (i did this kind of mods in other m-cars quite often yet) and is still a lot cheaper than all other mentioned units.



i will update this thread whenever i switch the units and have new findings.

when i will finally be happy with the configuration of the current units i have here, i'll get the next bunch of lsds like kaaz and cusco.

if anyone does also drive a aftermarket lsd unit i would be happy to read his findings on it. what manufacturer, what setup, what kind of driving, satisfied with the performance, ...?

would be great to collect all lsd units here which are available for the m3 and discuss about their pros and cons...
Hi Florian

How do I contact you about wanting to buy your LSD?

I have read and would be interested.

Thanks
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