Schrick Cams Monday

[8600RPM]

Ok so I am sorry for the delay. I got into tracking to an insane degree this past 12 months which is when I first had the idea of doing cams. Instead I dedicated the last 12 months and id 35 track days, traveling to drive laguna seca 5 times, Auto Club Roval, Buttonwillow, Chuckwalla and some local tracks many times. Spent a lot of money and time on my car, slowly building a track machine.

Now I thought was the perfect time, before season 2, to get the cams in. They are going in on Monday and Tuesday. I went with Epic tuning who already had a cam tune for the e92 m3 made. I can than custom log data and tweak the tune with Randy from Epic which is super exicting. ESS ended up not being very user friendly and it just didn't feel right as I could never get any straight answers from them. Randy and Epic on the other hand have been awesome.

So within a couple weeks I should have my first report. My car is also getting a ton of suspension work, solid subframe bushings and a few other goodies.

At this point I have sought to build the car that BMW would have built if it could have maxed out the 4.0 engine and the e92 m3 chassis. I have deliberately chosen only the best parts each step of the way and am building it in a way that I can test and enjoy each step along the way. Started with 18 pound monobloc forged wheels and Re 71r tires, PFC front and rear BBK. Dinan front and rear monoball suspension upgrades for the main bushings in front and rear, solid subframe bushings. Next will be coilovers and then aero. But first is cams and the finishing of engine work

I am catless with a MS intake and I run race fuel and a race fuel tune. Cams plus a catless xpipe plus race fuel should make for a perfect track package. To be quite honest, power is not at all what I have found lacking on the e92 m3 for the track but since I had bought the cams already, and I always wanted to complete this project for my own interest, I wanted to proceed.

I always envisioned the e92 me with a NA engine 4 L s65 with more aggressive cams, no cats and tuned with race fuel to be the epitomy bmw engineering in a street car where the engine had to last awhile. With the best brakes money can buy, full monoball component front and rear suspension, solid bushings throughout subframe, super light-weight wheels and the right coilovers, this was the e92 m3 that if cost wasn't an issue, woulud have hit showroom floors.

At least that was my vision. I have sunk so much money into slowly building this car and is worth every penny. I wouldn't want a supercharger for the life of me as a track person. I will be super happy with a solid 15-20 hp gain from the cams which would probably put me into a realistic 405whp which is perfect for the track.

Stay tuned

[roastbeef]

do you plan on doing before and after dynos? i think it would be interesting to see a baseline, then with cams (no tune), and with cams plus a tune.

[tlow98]

Glad this is happening for you, and for the knowledge of the community. Sounds like you've had a lot of fun this year, that's great!

Really hoping you do before and after dynos :-)

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

do you plan on doing before and after dynos? i think it would be interesting to see a baseline, then with cams (no tune), and with cams plus a tune.

Agreed! That would be amazing as no one has done this modification with real data points to show the gains.

Either way, I'm sure it'll feel like a raped ape up top.

[Richbot]

Sweet

Though I don't know anywhere BMW could have sold a catless maxed-out M3

Can't wait to see dyno results and/or vbox etc.

[Patrón]

I'm excited for you, i'm looking forward to your data.

[italyix]

Subscribed!

Which cams are you getting? 284 or 292? Stock springs and retainers?

I have been looking to do the 284s, as I have been told the 292 on stock engine are a no-go due to clearances issues in the cylinder.

Keep us posted! With pics!

[SYT_Shadow]

284's retain vanos. No idea why 292 requires removing vanos because in the E46 they could use up to 304 IIRC

I have some 284 cams as well and I'm building the same kind of machine as 8600rpm, although mine has HFCs and runs 93 octane. I'll add the BW LT headers to my setup to hopefully make up for the lack of 100 octane
For springs I'll use the BE developed ones just to be on the safe side.

[Shredicus]

Props! Keep us posted.

[ilikebmxbikes]

going to be good. im going to be running a new Steve Dinan Autotech Cam/valvue springs/ lifters/ Tune in the stroker in the next few months. will be nice to start getting data out.

[MisterEm]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

284's retain vanos. No idea why 292 requires removing vanos because in the E46 they could use up to 304 IIRC

Sorry for the OT, I heard some of the same information about the E46 as @SYT_Shadow has as I dug deep into an off the chart build. Some of it wrong, some of it right....but always regurgitated as gospel on the interwebs. We know there is quite a bit of bad information about cams and vanos compatibility on the forums on the S54. I really hope the S65 doesn't have this problem as well. Caused a lot of frustration for me pushing the limits...

Some of this info comes from the cam manufacturers and vendors themselves. Found this out the hard way. Lift combined with aggressive duration is more the issue with vanos on the S54. But it is also the key to making max NA power...

-304/296 schricks have 14mm of lift. Very tight but possible to retain vanos with limited range and overlap down low.
-288/280 13.5 mm lift. Plenty of room to retain.


We dry tested 288/280 (13.5), 296/304 schricks (14) with stock and basic 12.0 pistons the old fashioned way with vanos on since nobody from Schrick or who sold Schrick's could give us an answer on clearance. (except Crower cams). So we advanced and retarded each cam 5 degrees. Measured and checked PTV with these cams. Rinse and repeat. Took a while but we learned a lot.

Sooo...we sold the schricks and went with custom Crower cams with 14.5 and 14.0mm of lift 292/282 duration. Full VANOS retained and passes factory DIS VANOS test. Crower had better customer service, provided tech information and cheaper than Schrick. Not to mention...Schrick messed up the cam keyways on a batch of 288/280's std lift after they had financial issues a while back. There is a large batch circulating that will never get full vanos functionality with the keyways 10+ degrees off... unless whomever tunes them figures it out.

[theBRUDDHA]

Originally Posted by MisterEm

Sorry for the OT, I heard some of the same information about the E46 as @SYT_Shadow has as I dug deep into an off the chart build. Some of it wrong, some of it right....but always regurgitated as gospel on the interwebs. We know there is quite a bit of bad information about cams and vanos compatibility on the forums on the S54. I really hope the S65 doesn't have this problem as well. Caused a lot of frustration for me pushing the limits...

Some of this info comes from the cam manufacturers and vendors themselves. Found this out the hard way. Lift combined with aggressive duration is more the issue with vanos on the S54. But it is also the key to making max NA power...

-304/296 schricks have 14mm of lift. Very tight but possible to retain vanos with limited range and overlap down low.
-288/280 13.5 mm lift. Plenty of room to retain.


We dry tested 288/280 (13.5), 296/304 schricks (14) with stock and basic 12.0 pistons the old fashioned way with vanos on since nobody from Schrick or who sold Schrick's could give us an answer on clearance. (except Crower cams). So we advanced and retarded each cam 5 degrees. Measured and checked PTV with these cams. Rinse and repeat. Took a while but we learned a lot.

Sooo...we sold the schricks and went with custom Crower cams with 14.5 and 14.0mm of lift 292/282 duration. Full VANOS retained and passes factory DIS VANOS test. Crower had better customer service, provided tech information and cheaper than Schrick. Not to mention...Schrick messed up the cam keyways on a batch of 288/280's std lift after they had financial issues a while back. There is a large batch circulating that will never get full vanos functionality with the keyways 10+ degrees off... unless whomever tunes them figures it out.

Interesting. How is normal driveability on the 292/282? Any idle issues?

[Richbot]

Crower is an amazing company

[MisterEm]

Originally Posted by theBRUDDHA

Interesting. How is normal driveability on the 292/282? Any idle issues?

Idles like a normal S54. Set at 880 rpm. Runs OE CSL map with flap activated. TTFS made some fuel, vanos and ignition tweaks. Even passed the nazi Denver County, Colorado emissions (OBD2, visual, 15 minute dyno run time with sniffer and OBD scanner on).

Feels like a normal S54 til about 3K RPM then you wonder what's going on. Heavily ported head gives the sleeper status away. Much deeper tone than a stock S54. I've tried too many mufflers to keep her quiet, to no avail

[MisterEm]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Crower is an amazing company

They know more about the BMW S motors than I realized... cams were perfect the first time. Right from the get go. Couldn't say the same about Schrick, unfortunately.

[8600RPM]

Glad I went with 284s

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by MisterEm

They know more about the BMW S motors than I realized... cams were perfect the first time. Right from the get go. Couldn't say the same about Schrick, unfortunately.

MrM, thanks for the information

It's funny because last week a shop near me had Shrick cams that were literally built wrong. This was on an S65. They came by my place and took pics and year, the key on one of the cams was completely out of whack. WTF!

I didn't know another company made cams... I already have my Shricks but I'm sure I can sell them.

[MisterEm]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

MrM, thanks for the information

It's funny because last week a shop near me had Shrick cams that were literally built wrong. This was on an S65. They came by my place and took pics and year, the key on one of the cams was completely out of whack. WTF!

I didn't know another company made cams... I already have my Shricks but I'm sure I can sell them.

Oh NOO! The source I had from Schrick when the issue was found said he wouldn't be surprised if this issue arrived in other S65 and S85 motors. As these cams were made at the same time in a similar manner. Since they are a rare mod, not likely to hear about it from traditional owners.

I had no first hand knowledge of the issue in other motors, but I bet the keyway is too far rotated as well in the car you speak of. You can tune around some of the issue, but it will still limit cam movement and vanos function. Sucks to hear...but such is life from a company that went belly up and was bought out.

Maybe CAT and Crower can make some big boy s65 cams?

[8600RPM]

I am super confused. The only sizes schrick makes e92 m3 cams is 284 and 292, 284 and then I think 302. So where are these sizes you are talking about with this bad batch?

[MisterEm]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

I am super confused. The only sizes schrick makes e92 m3 cams is 284 and 292, 284 and then I think 302. So where are these sizes you are talking about with this bad batch?

The confirmed bad batch I was referring to were 288/280's for the S54B32. Keyways were F---cked. $2000 paperweights. Will not be noticed until startup, unfortunately.

During the post cam debacle investigation... it was mentioned that many other cams/keyways for the S65 and S85 were made similarly. No known issues at the time...

SYT_Shadow may have found the first case in his hometown for the S65 cams.

You can measure the cam deviance with ISTA and DIS. It will be readily apparent especially knowing the mechanical timing is spot on....

[theBRUDDHA]

so does crower make cams for s65 or will they need to be custom made?

[Bx Tpr]

IMG found the bad S65 cam during a track build. I'll see if I can get pics of the actual issue in question.