991 Porsche S

[DaFish]

Originally Posted by M3Duo

I did test drive the new 991 S today, fully loaded with sports chrono/LC. It truly takes handling/speed a notch above M3(am sure the F80/82 will be great but that's 2-3 years away). The interior is greatly updated(way better than a 997). Yeah, the steering initially feels numb but at higher speeds it is quite alive. The car as is can be a DD and a weekend track toy as needed. If you need no more than 2 seats and have extra change you should consider this car, really

Standard acid test for me... can you get 2 sets of golf clubs in the 991?

Everything else about the car is perfect (except some minor stuff on the steering that I am sure you can live with).

[graider]

Originally Posted by devo

the 991S is incredible, however, it only matches the .2 GT3's Ring time when equipped with PDK, SC Plus, PASM, PDCC and a host of other goodies which bring the car > $125k price point. Consider that the MANUAL .2 gt3, otherwise similarly optioned had a sticker of roughly $116K, accelerates faster to 100 and anywhere beyond, has a much higher top speed, is far more track ready than the 991S and infinitely more fun. The GT in front of the 3, 3RS or 2, says it all.

Biased maybe, truthful yes.

I agree. porsche use the ring time as marketing for the 991s. it is no where near the 997.2 gt3 ring time unless you add all the ridiculous options as mentioned above.

at best the manual 991s will probably do 7:50 ring time.

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by devo

the 991S is incredible, however, it only matches the .2 GT3's Ring time when equipped with PDK, SC Plus, PASM, PDCC and a host of other goodies which bring the car > $125k price point. Consider that the MANUAL .2 gt3, otherwise similarly optioned had a sticker of roughly $116K, accelerates faster to 100 and anywhere beyond, has a much higher top speed, is far more track ready than the 991S and infinitely more fun. The GT in front of the 3, 3RS or 2, says it all.

Biased maybe, truthful yes.

I certainly agree with you, but the fact that it matches the performance with an entry level 911 (for the most part) with more weight and less hp says a lot to me. The 911 has always been a great overachiever and the new 911 is no exception, probably more so than ever before. The fact that on track times, it is right up there with most LP-XXX L cars with 200+ hp or running with a 458 Italia that has almost 200 more hp shows me that it is capable well beyond what anyone has done with 400 hp and 3300 lbs. I will say it again, no other car within 50-60 hp has a chance running with the 991S. Not even a base Vette with less weight and a good amount more hp will touch it in any conceivable way. Thats as close as any 400-460 hp car gets to it.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by graider

I agree. porsche use the ring time as marketing for the 991s. it is no where near the 997.2 gt3 ring time unless you add all the ridiculous options as mentioned above.

at best the manual 991s will probably do 7:50 ring time.

The more impressive achievement is the improvement over the 997.2 PDK ring time. More of an apples to apples comparison.

The 997.2 PDK did a 7:50. 991 manages a 10 second improvement, which is very good in my opinion.

[hakaida442]

Originally Posted by graider

I agree. porsche use the ring time as marketing for the 991s. it is no where near the 997.2 gt3 ring time unless you add all the ridiculous options as mentioned above.

at best the manual 991s will probably do 7:50 ring time.

And the 997.2 GT3 has no "ridiculous options" to get its lap time? It is not pure like the 996 GT3 which doesn't have the 997.2 GT3 "ridiculous options" like ultralight battery and dynamic engine mounts and standard items like PASM and those cool, but pain in the ass centerlocking wheels.

[devo]

Originally Posted by hakaida442

And the 997.2 GT3 has no "ridiculous options" to get its lap time? It is not pure like the 996 GT3 which doesn't have the 997.2 GT3 "ridiculous options" like ultralight battery and dynamic engine mounts and standard items like PASM and those cool, but pain in the ass centerlocking wheels.

I think he was affirming my contention that the 991S would need those options.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

I certainly agree with you, but the fact that it matches the performance with an entry level 911 (for the most part) with more weight and less hp says a lot to me. The 911 has always been a great overachiever and the new 911 is no exception, probably more so than ever before. The fact that on track times, it is right up there with most LP-XXX L cars with 200+ hp or running with a 458 Italia that has almost 200 more hp shows me that it is capable well beyond what anyone has done with 400 hp and 3300 lbs. I will say it again, no other car within 50-60 hp has a chance running with the 991S. Not even a base Vette with less weight and a good amount more hp will touch it in any conceivable way. Thats as close as any 400-460 hp car gets to it.

I think that's a little unfair. A 991 Carrera S runs well north of $100k with proper options. A base vette is less than half that. A Z06 and ZR1 are priced in that territory and would slap down a 991 S in almost every performance measure.

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

I think that's a little unfair. A 991 Carrera S runs well north of $100k with proper options. A base vette is less than half that. A Z06 and ZR1 are priced in that territory and would slap down a 991 S in almost every performance measure.

Very fair point, but the 911 has a very far gap when it comes to quality heavily in its favor, and certainly, espcially seeing as you own a GTR, price is not always indicitive of performance for dollar, especially when talking about a 911, or any number of sports or exotics (F cars, L cars, Astons, and many more).

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

Very fair point, but the 911 has a very far gap when it comes to quality heavily in its favor, and certainly, espcially seeing as you own a GTR, price is not always indicitive of performance for dollar, especially when talking about a 911, or any number of sports or exotics (F cars, L cars, Astons, and many more).

That's true but $115K for base 911 is a bit over the top.
Plus, as Chevy has shown, HP is only one of many factors that make a car fast. When they upgraded a Z06 to almost the same spec(except the big HP motor) as ZR1 it nearly ran the 'ring in the same time. I'd bet a base C6 with all those suspension, tire, and brake tweeks would crush a 991S.
That said, I am very excite about the 991 platform and if the price isn't too outrageous I foresee a GT3 as my next sports car.

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

That's true but $115K for base 911 is a bit over the top.
Plus, as Chevy has shown, HP is only one of many factors that make a car fast. When they upgraded a Z06 to almost the same spec(except the big HP motor) as ZR1 it nearly ran the 'ring in the same time. I'd bet a base C6 with all those suspension, tire, and brake tweeks would crush a 991S.
That said, I am very excite about the 991 platform and if the price isn't too outrageous I foresee a GT3 as my next sports car.

Base C6 would still get crushed. Its going to take a lot more than that considering the lap times in the link below where the 991S is neck and neck with and faster on some (slower on others) than a c6 z06 which is not only lighter but has 105 hp more.
Personally, I would like to see Porsche cut production and raise pricing, bring back the days of the 993 where production was much less, especially when you are talking about the "entry" level 911s competing at supercar levels in terms of performance. That said, the turbo and GTx's cars will continue with their ever standing history of epic performance and I an very excited to see where they set the new bar.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso...carrera_s.html

[hakaida442]

Originally Posted by devo

I think he was affirming my contention that the 991S would need those options.

Then what would the .2 GT3 time be without its options? If you're going to rip the 991 for its options then you have to do the same with the .2 GT3 as well. Of course porsche and every other manufacturer is going to load up their cars with what will make the best ring lap time.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

Base C6 would still get crushed. Its going to take a lot more than that considering the lap times in the link below where the 991S is neck and neck with and faster on some (slower on others) than a c6 z06 which is not only lighter but has 105 hp more.
Personally, I would like to see Porsche cut production and raise pricing, bring back the days of the 993 where production was much less, especially when you are talking about the "entry" level 911s competing at supercar levels in terms of performance. That said, the turbo and GTx's cars will continue with their ever standing history of epic performance and I an very excited to see where they set the new bar.

http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso...carrera_s.html

That link is incorrect. The new Z06, to which I am referring, ran close to 7:20. A standard C6 with a similiar setup would probably beat a new 991S.

[Nine]

If you have 125k, why not buy a preowned ferrari?

[devo]

Originally Posted by hakaida442

Then what would the .2 GT3 time be without its options? If you're going to rip the 991 for its options then you have to do the same with the .2 GT3 as well. Of course porsche and every other manufacturer is going to load up their cars with what will make the best ring lap time.

7:40 without those options. Most of them were not even available on a gt3.

A 997.2 gt3 wouldn't and hasn't needed ANY options (other than maybe $1300 DEMs) to make the 7:40 run at the Ring whereas the 991S would need the aforementioned high list of options to attain the same time but at a higher cost of admission. Additionally, with all of those options, PDK w/Launch Control and a host of others, the 991S will still fall behind a .2 gt3 in any speed contest or any top speed run and do so with much less soul.

[devo]

Originally Posted by Nine

If you have 125k, why not buy a preowned ferrari?

because you'd need another $25K for maintenance and repairs.

[alms211]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

That link is incorrect. The new Z06, to which I am referring, ran close to 7:20. A standard C6 with a similiar setup would probably beat a new 991S.

Not a chance. I've owned an '11 C6 Grand Sport and that car will not beat the 991S regardless of what suspension, brakes et al you put in it.

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

That link is incorrect. The new Z06, to which I am referring, ran close to 7:20. A standard C6 with a similiar setup would probably beat a new 991S.

What I was saying was that the c6 z06 is still far above what a base c6 is capable of and if the z06 has a tough time beating a 991S despite being lighter and have a significant hp advantage, no c6 modded or otherwise is going to touch it, the 911 is just simply too far ahead in terms of performance (steering feel, grip, acceleration, handling) and Vettes are pretty hairy at their limits whereas the new 911 is very easy to drive hard IMO/experience with it.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

What I was saying was that the c6 z06 is still far above what a base c6 is capable of and if the z06 has a tough time beating a 991S despite being lighter and have a significant hp advantage, no c6 modded or otherwise is going to touch it, the 911 is just simply too far ahead in terms of performance (steering feel, grip, acceleration, handling) and Vettes are pretty hairy at their limits whereas the new 911 is very easy to drive hard IMO/experience with it.

I believe we're both making the same point, that hp isn't everything. A new tweeked Z06 is almost 20 seconds faster around the 'ring than the old standard version. That's a huge difference. And I believe a standard vette with all those upgrades would handle a 991S too.
Frankly, the couple of hours of driving a 991S I have had have been pretty underwhelming.

[PaneristiDriver]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

I believe we're both making the same point, that hp isn't everything. A new tweeked Z06 is almost 20 seconds faster around the 'ring than the old standard version. That's a huge difference. And I believe a standard vette with all those upgrades would handle a 991S too.
Frankly, the couple of hours of driving a 991S I have had have been pretty underwhelming.

Agreed on hp, but I still disagree a Vette with some brake and suspension work would be able to hang with a 991S without significantly more hp.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver

Agreed on hp, but I still disagree a Vette with some brake and suspension work would be able to hang with a 991S without significantly more hp.

I'm certainly not going to bet the house on that guess but just imagine a ZR1 with a standard 430 hp corvette engine. It would be really fast around a track.
I also think people are overstating the potency of a 991s. Like I said I was underwhelmed.

[1Sleeper]

Originally Posted by devo

7:40 without those options. Most of them were not even available on a gt3.

A 997.2 gt3 wouldn't and hasn't needed ANY options (other than maybe $1300 DEMs) to make the 7:40 run at the Ring whereas the 991S would need the aforementioned high list of options to attain the same time but at a higher cost of admission. Additionally, with all of those options, PDK w/Launch Control and a host of others, the 991S will still fall behind a .2 gt3 in any speed contest or any top speed run and do so with much less soul.

Well said and very true. A GT3 comes ready right out of the box. I've seen a few 991's around, very nicely updated. Going to a Porsche track event soon, curious to see how it "feels".

[Cl0ud7]

Originally Posted by 997GT3

That link is incorrect. The new Z06, to which I am referring, ran close to 7:20. A standard C6 with a similiar setup would probably beat a new 991S.

Wasn't that the Z06 w/PS cup tires or pretty close to slicks for that matter?