'Aztlan': The End Of America

[Scarabeo]

Originally Posted by e90rocks

If you mean "criminals by definition", I believe it means

"Illegal" => noncompliant with law=> "criminal".

It doesn't refer to race at all, although I will admit that the language is deliberately inflammatory. Perhaps there was a previous sig to which you are referring? I think that once you change your sig on this forum it changes everywhere and retroactively on all posts.

Personally I find the implication (that I am mentally unstable) in BadBob's sig to be inflammatory.

Yes, it looks as though he has altered his sig - the previous one was more inflammatory...my point is that short of erecting a massive barrier along our entire border (with Canada as well - you'd be surprised how many illegal Canadians there are in the US ) and enforcing it with the military, there is no way you can prevent people from coming...end of story....

[Scarabeo]

Originally Posted by BadBob

Like I said, we made them an offer they couldn't refuse. What's your point?

Ahh, but we did we make them an offer they could refuse, then proceeded to grab the southwest... and now people get prickly when the Mexicans settle here illegally...you know, if we had any moral high ground on which to stand, one could make an argument...but we really don't....

[Scarabeo]

Originally Posted by BadBob

Fact is, it's U.S. territory and Mexicans don't have a right to come here illegally. They had the option to stay and become U.S. citizens pursuant to the terms of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo but they choose to flee to Mexico. They choose poorly. Tough shit. End of story.

Whatever Bob, and what we are doing in Iraq certainly is not an invasion of a sovereign territory....you can rationalize all you want, but they are going to continue to come and there is not a darn thing you can do about it....they may have chosen poorly back then, but it looks as though they have changed their mind..

[Scarabeo]

Originally Posted by BadBob

WTF? Iraq? I think you've had one to many grappas. What the hell are you talking about?

Bob, relax and have a grappa on me - you will live a lot longer...stop sweating the small stuff....because in the grand scheme of things this whole anti-immigration tirade is really meaningless...

[Scarabeo]

Originally Posted by BadBob

I'm not sweating anything. I don't even have a dog in this fight.

Hey, changing the topic, how is it in Oklahoma this time of year...I spent a lot of time in Duncan once upon a time...

[shimshimhada]

It will be a wall with paintball machine guns. I guess we could shoot pennies at them too.

[Scarabeo]

Originally Posted by BadBob

We're all hot and irritable right now. It's been over 100 degrees for what seems like forever. I grew up in Ada, which is about 80 miles east of Duncan.

Hotter than hell here as well...Yep, good ole Duncan and the oil patch...If memory serves me right, I think that it was in Wichita that I visited a National Park where the buffalo still roam - was incredible...

Back on the topic of illegal immigration, Italy is being overrun by North Africans...it seems everybody is on the move to escape their crappy governments and failed economies...

[NFS]

Originally Posted by CMD

ska, you don't need to read this thread or view the video link I posted. If you disagree with me, then ignore the thread. All I did is POST A FREAKING LINK, and everyone is all over me calling me a bigot. I posted a link, people.

I used the word bigot in connection with your sig

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry

Originally - the sig said something along the lines of the following:

illegal immigrants = burglars etc ....

As I said above I'm glad that you have changed it - but it still saddens me that you are so fired up about illegal immigrants that you need to condemn them in a sig.

As I commented also - this was actually the third post from you in as many weeks focussing on illegal immigrants - so me question was - why does this issue trouble you so much?

It's perfectly understandable that people will want to come to the USA and try to get a slice of the good life. Since they can't get in legally, they are going to try to get in illegally.

Seems obvious to me and it also seems that there is little point complaining about it.

If you want to start a campaign - start one against the gangmasters who exploit illegal immigrants and the human traffickers who charge them their life savings to smuggle them into countries. They are the ones who are profitting from this and creating misery.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by BadBob

which bit was bullshit - the bit about this being a car forum or the bit about america being the richest country in world?

[ska///235i]

NP...I guess we took this topic too seriously
Lets all take a chill pill and smoke some weed

Originally Posted by CMD

ska, you don't need to read this thread or view the video link I posted. If you disagree with me, then ignore the thread. All I did is POST A FREAKING LINK, and everyone is all over me calling me a bigot. I posted a link, people.

Originally Posted by Scarabeo

Well said...:rocks: My friends, where is your compassion for the down trodden, people who have lost all hope and see the US as a beacon of light, as so many of our ancestors have? Shame on you....and US foreign policy, for making a mess in Latin America...

I get a big kick out of people from Italy, the UK, Canada, Boston et. al. chiming in on this issue.

The only way, the only way, you could possibly understand the situation here would be to have lived here, (ie. the American Southwest), for the last 30 years.

In other words, you people don't know what you're talking about.

That's not your fault, it's just a fact.

[NaTuReB0Y]

CMD,

Would you be upset if I hire illegal immigrants to do my brickwalls.....

I saved about $35 a foot or $5,250.....compared to a certified legal resident.

[ska///235i]

FYI...we have illegal immagrants all over New York City and alot of them come to Boston to work, but of course they're not just Mexicans

I lived in SF before, and my brother lives in Cali....so does my Aunt

you really need to open your mind alil more, alot of people on this forum are alot smarter, have more education, have more experience than you think

cheers

Originally Posted by CMD

I get a big kick out of people from Italy, the UK and Boston chiming in on this issue. The only way, the only way, you could possibly understand the situation here would be to live here for the last 30 years. In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

CMD - A little history lesson for you...this passage is from Encarta:


Scarabeo, If you want to call it a "land grab," you are certainly free to do so. However, the fact remains, the U.S. purchased the land from Mexico. And further, it was virtually unpopulated at the time, so what does it matter? Now that we have it all fixed up with all the latest "mods," they want to claim it as theirs. I say, build your own country, don't come here and steal ours!

Originally Posted by Scarabeo

Excuse me, did you happen to read his sig?

I changed my sig.

But for the record, it read:

Illegal Immigants=Criminals by Default

Before that, it read: Illegal Immigrants: Robbers & Thieves

Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y

CMD,

Would you be upset if I hire illegal immigrants to do my brickwalls.....

I saved about $35 a foot or $5,250.....compared to a certified legal resident.

A fellow E90 enthusiast, hell no!

But you're part of the problem.

Originally Posted by ska

FYI...we have illegal immagrants all over New York City and alot of them come to Boston to work, but of course they're not just Mexicans

I lived in SF before, and my brother lives in Cali....so does my Aunt

you really need to open your mind alil more, alot of people on this forum are alot smarter, have more education, have more experience than you think

cheers

ska and my other fellow E90 enthusiasts and friends:

If you haven't lived here, in Southern California particularly, over the last, say, 20 to 30 years, then you cannot possibly understand the gravity of the Illegal Immigration situation.

Southern California is Illegal Immigration GROUND ZERO.

I'm really an open minded person. I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a racist or a bigot. I'm just someone who loves his country and doesn't want to see it going down the shitter.

Illegal Immigration has had a devastating negative effect here. And again, unless you've lived here and experienced it over the years, it's understandably difficult to comprehend. You can, of course, have an opinion and your own point of view, I'm not saying you can't have those. But you can't speak from the "experience."

This is not to say Illegal Immigrants are "bad" people, I've never stated that. My opinion is they are criminals simply by their presence here and they are stealing from us in many ways. For example from our hospitals and schools. Do many of them work hard? Yes. Do many of them support taking over the American Southwest by having huge families? Absolutely.

I'm not posting this stuff to make enemies, only to stir thought. I know I have supporters as well as detractors here, and yes, I'm passionate about the topic. Nonetheless, the purpose of my posting is for discussion, not to piss people off. And I am posting in the "Off Topic" area, after all.

Cheers!

[Scarabeo]

Originally Posted by CMD

I get a big kick out of people from Italy, the UK, Canada, Boston et. al. chiming in on this issue.

The only way, the only way, you could possibly understand the situation here would be to have lived here, (ie. the American Southwest), for the last 30 years.

In other words, you people don't know what you're talking about.

That's not your fault, it's just a fact.

CMD - fyi, I have lived in California and Texas for over 5 years - trust me, I am very well acquainted with the problems of illegal immigration...I may have come down a little hard on you, sorry...this a complex and controversial issue...if our policymakers can't come up with a solution, I doubt we can solve the problem in this forum. If you really want to stem the flow from Latin America, then we need to be creating jobs in those countries. Bush started out with good intentions regarding Latin America but got seriously sidetracked after 9/11...and if Cuba gets into trouble post-Castro, then I think we can expect another massive wave of malcontents...I worked in Latin America for years (as a Foreign Service Officer) so I think I understand the situation better than most...truce?

Originally Posted by Scarabeo

CMD - fyi, I have lived in California and Texas for over 5 years - trust me, I am very well acquainted with the problems of illegal immigration...I may have come down a little hard on you, sorry...this a complex and controversial issue...if our policymakers can't come up with a solution, I doubt we can solve the problem in this forum. If you really want to stem the flow from Latin America, then we need to be creating jobs in those countries. Bush started out with good intentions regarding Latin America but got seriously sidetracked after 9/11...and if Cuba gets into trouble post-Castro, then I think we can expect another massive wave of malcontents...I worked in Latin America for years (as a Foreign Service Officer) so I think I understand the situation better than most...truce?

Sure!

It is very complex issue ideed.

[uofmtiger]

As I commented also - this was actually the third post from you in as many weeks focussing on illegal immigrants - so me question was - why does this issue trouble you so much?

I can't say why this is such an issue for CMD, but I do know why it is an issue for a lot of people. To get an idea what the illegal immigrants are costing us, you have to research the issue:

Cost in healthcare printed in the American Physicians and Surgeons:

http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf

Their recommendation to fix the problem is:

Closing America's borders with fences, high-tech security devices and troops.
Rescinding the U.S. citizenship of "anchor babies."
Punishing the aiding and abetting of illegal aliens as a crime.
An end to amnesty programs.

It is also costing us a fortune in education:

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...h_researchf6ad

Here is just one article on the cost to Colorado. The Welfare bill alone for legal citizens is mindboggling:

Illegal aliens on Colorado’s Medicaid program cost Colorado taxpayers $64.5 million per year.

http://www.defendcoloradonow.org/docs/cost_study_dr_2006mar28.pdf#search='illegal%20immi grantmedicaid'

Crime is another issue that people worry about:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=11730

I am not verifying that every stat in the articles above are accurate, since I just found them via a Yahoo search, but they do point at just a few of the reasons people care: welfare costs, educaton costs, crime, and health care costs.

[NaTuReB0Y]

Originally Posted by CMD

A fellow E90 enthusiast, hell no!

But you're part of the problem.

if given a choice of two workers with the same skills ----

you would rather pay an extra $5,250 because he's a legal resident/U.S. citizen?

sorry man......but myself and the 4 surrounding neighbors went with the cheapest deal!

[uofmtiger]

Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y

if given a choice of two workers with the same skills ----

you would rather pay an extra $5,250 because he's a legal resident/U.S. citizen?

sorry man......but myself and the 4 surrounding neighbors went with the cheapest deal!

This is a good question because it really does tell us why they are coming over. We like the cheap labor even at the detriment of the cost that I mentioned above. Until our government starts fining and/or arresting people that are hiring illegal immigrants, I think many people will make the same choice as you and your neighbors. It is easy to look at the $5250 as a supplement to the extra health care insurance money you or your company are paying to give some of them a free ride.

The other issue is that the people charging you the extra $5000 may just hire the job out to illegal immigrants and pocket the difference. That is how a lot of people work it in this area.