ACL rod bearings?

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

Is BE in a shortage again? If not, the cost difference is immaterial, why do people bother even asking about VAC or ACL? Just get BE.

Because there's a massive price difference here in the UK!

e.g The only place that seems to advertise a price now in the UK for BE bearings is AReeve, they want £737 for BE bearings! (up by £137 from 3 yrs ago!), that's $887 at current rates (all prices here include tax).
A quick look finds that ACL bearings are going for £209 ($252) from Rebuild, £215 from AReeve. That said, they are either std clearance (H) or extra clearance (HX, but too much at +0.001") or unmeasured mixed sets, so to match BE clearances you do need to have mixed sets precision measured (like BE do) and not just buy mixed sets. But even with the extra costs that involves, it's still way cheaper than buying BE here.

When I did it 2+ yrs ago I had to get Mporium (yes from the US!lol) to sell me a mixed and measured set as I couldn't find anyone here who did (AFAIK their still isn't). Including getting BE ARP bolts, shipping, taxes and the measured mixed ACL bearings it cost me £712 ($857), where as for the ARP bolts and BE bearings it would've cost me £949 ($1142) from Areeve! (at the time).

And ACL are perfectly decent bearings too.
Last I looked though, I understand the price difference is much smaller in the US.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Because there's a massive price difference here in the UK!

e.g The only place that seems to advertise a price now in the UK for BE bearings is AReeve, they want £737 for BE bearings! (up by £137 from 3 yrs ago!), that's $887 at current rates (all prices here include tax).

BE hasn't had a price increase since the beginning of time. BE ships worldwide.

A quick look finds that ACL bearings are going for £209 ($252) from Rebuild, £215 from AReeve. That said, they are either std clearance (H) or extra clearance (HX, but too much at +0.001") or unmeasured mixed sets, so to match BE clearances you do need to have mixed sets precision measured (like BE do) and not just buy mixed sets. But even with the extra costs that involves, it's still way cheaper than buying BE here.

When I did it 2+ yrs ago I had to get Mporium (yes from the US!lol) to sell me a mixed and measured set as I couldn't find anyone here who did (AFAIK their still isn't). Including getting BE ARP bolts, shipping, taxes and the measured mixed ACL bearings it cost me £712 ($857), where as for the ARP bolts and BE bearings it would've cost me £949 ($1142) from Areeve! (at the time).

Buying unmeasured sets is pure insanity. Soon, Bert has promised to post the probabilities of taking random shells as sets, and seeing how many percent could lead to engine dangers, if not engine failures. I've seen the data when he was developing it, but I don't remember. I know it's the statistics are not just hypothetical, but based on actual measurements of thousands of shells. All vendors, no matter how good, are subject to the normal distribution curve of thicknesses across their manufacturing range.
IIRC, the probabilities of dangers are a lot higher danger than one might think. That's why I say that it's pure insanity to install unmeasured shells on the S65/S85.

And ACL are perfectly decent bearings too.
Last I looked though, I understand the price difference is much smaller in the US.

There's a reason Clevite makes the best bearings in the world, and a reason probably all tier-1 race teams use them. The load capacity of Clevite, especially the newer Silver Oxide shells from BE far surpasses any others on the market. Steve Dinan has some experience with ACL shells on S65 for a few engines. Call him up, and ask him what he found.

[Redd]

I get it that BE is the best out there, no arguments. But are you saying that ACL H or HX is even worse than stock bearings?

Or can I at least assume that ACL HX (off the shelf, non-measured) is better than stock, but not as good as BE?

[jvictormp]

Originally Posted by Redd

I get it that BE is the best out there, no arguments. But are you saying that ACL H or HX is even worse than stock bearings?

Or can I at least assume that ACL HX (off the shelf, non-measured) is better than stock, but not as good as BE?

I would add that: would it be insanity to put OEM bearings without measuring too?

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by Redd

I get it that BE is the best out there, no arguments. But are you saying that ACL H or HX is even worse than stock bearings?

There's two ways to interpret your question: 1) a question about clearances, or 2) a question about the quality of materials. I'll answer both.

1. The clearance is the issue, not the quality. According to ACL spec sheets, ACL H target the same clearance specs as OEM.

2. The original OEM shells were Clevite. The replacement is Glyco. In a quality of materials question for S65, this would be my ranking order of quality, leaving clearances aside: Clevite, King, Glyco, ACL. Some question still swirls around King specs. That question will definitevely be answered in the near future.

Or can I at least assume that ACL HX (off the shelf, non-measured) is better than stock, but not as good as BE?

I would not use a pure set of HX as it borders on too much clearance. I especially wouldn't do ot if I couldn't measure and hand select the shells.

[spammysammich]

I recall somebody complaining about spinning his king rod bearings but it looked like a case of user error. The set he used required reworking the rods prior to install and that instruction was missed.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by spammysammich

I recall somebody complaining about spinning his king rod bearings but it looked like a case of user error. The set he used required reworking the rods prior to install and that instruction was missed.

This is the exact question that we're hoping to answer soon. I think King has since removed that instruction from their data sheet. Bert @ BE has a very early set of King Bearings, and a set bought a week ago. It will be easy to measure and tell if the spec has changed, or whether that was even a requirement at all.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

BE hasn't had a price increase since the beginning of time. BE ships worldwide.

Buying unmeasured sets is pure insanity. Soon, Bert has promised to post the probabilities of taking random shells as sets, and seeing how many percent could lead to engine dangers, if not engine failures. I've seen the data when he was developing it, but I don't remember. I know it's the statistics are not just hypothetical, but based on actual measurements of thousands of shells. All vendors, no matter how good, are subject to the normal distribution curve of thicknesses across their manufacturing range.
IIRC, the probabilities of dangers are a lot higher danger than one might think. That's why I say that it's pure insanity to install unmeasured shells on the S65/S85.
.....

I think I looked at buying directly from BE at the time and was no better off than buying BE kit here.

I've just had a look now (btw their website's security certificate lapsed near the end of February), the bearings cost ~£516, although that doesn't include shipping (the shipping estimator doesn't work for me in Firefox either). The bolts cost £258, so without shipping that's £774. (Interestingly, converting the $ price to £ with today's exchange rate it comes out at ~£747).
Taking the higher figure (the one from BE's site) and adding VAT (tax @20%), that's ~£929, +3.5% import duty (it's close to that figure), that's ~£962 [edit. I forgot to add ~2.5% for foreign exchange commission by the banks]. (UK prices incl VAT, unless they say otherwise).

Areeve are £1106 for BE bearings and bolts! (not including shipping either). So buying directly from BE is considerably cheaper now! But still a fair bit more than I paid for mixed and measured ACLs. You pays your money and takes your choices I guess!

Re unmeasured and mixed ACL sets, I'm surprised there's that bigger a difference (but then again, I know deansbimmer has said similar. Btw, he thinks 'ACL bearings are excellent' ).
I guess because you don't know if you're getting a thick 1/2 set with a thin 1/2 set? Which might well be ok, or a thick 1/2 set (of H's) with a thick 1/2 set (of HX's), which probably wouldn't be ok!
Will be interesting to see Bert's figures.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

I think I looked at buying directly from BE at the time and was no better off than buying BE kit here.

I've just had a look now (btw their website's security certificate lapsed near the end of February), the bearings cost ~£516, although that doesn't include shipping (the shipping estimator doesn't work for me in Firefox either). The bolts cost £258, so without shipping that's £774. (Interestingly, converting the $ price to £ with today's exchange rate it comes out at ~£747).
Taking the higher figure (the one from BE's site) and adding VAT (tax @20%), that's ~£929, +3.5% import duty (it's close to that figure), that's ~£962 [edit. I forgot to add ~2.5% for foreign exchange commission by the banks]. (UK prices incl VAT, unless they say otherwise).

Areeve are £1106 for BE bearings and bolts! (not including shipping either). So buying directly from BE is considerably cheaper now! But still a fair bit more than I paid for mixed and measured ACLs. You pays your money and takes your choices I guess!

Re unmeasured and mixed ACL sets, I'm surprised there's that bigger a difference (but then again, I know deansbimmer has said similar. Btw, he thinks 'ACL bearings are excellent' ).
I guess because you don't know if you're getting a thick 1/2 set with a thin 1/2 set? Which might well be ok, or a thick 1/2 set (of H's) with a thick 1/2 set (of HX's), which probably wouldn't be ok!
Will be interesting to see Bert's figures.

The SSL certificate was updated today. I guess Bert got the new cert back in December, but didn't install it until today. LOL. I'll ask him to check on the shipping estimator too. The shipping estimator appears to work for USA, but not International. I'll make sure Bert checks into that.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

I think I looked at buying directly from BE at the time and was no better off than buying BE kit here.

I've just had a look now (btw their website's security certificate lapsed near the end of February), the bearings cost ~£516, although that doesn't include shipping (the shipping estimator doesn't work for me in Firefox either). The bolts cost £258, so without shipping that's £774. (Interestingly, converting the $ price to £ with today's exchange rate it comes out at ~£747).
Taking the higher figure (the one from BE's site) and adding VAT (tax @20%), that's ~£929, +3.5% import duty (it's close to that figure), that's ~£962 [edit. I forgot to add ~2.5% for foreign exchange commission by the banks]. (UK prices incl VAT, unless they say otherwise).

Areeve are £1106 for BE bearings and bolts! (not including shipping either). So buying directly from BE is considerably cheaper now! But still a fair bit more than I paid for mixed and measured ACLs. You pays your money and takes your choices I guess!

Re unmeasured and mixed ACL sets, I'm surprised there's that bigger a difference (but then again, I know deansbimmer has said similar. Btw, he thinks 'ACL bearings are excellent' ).
I guess because you don't know if you're getting a thick 1/2 set with a thin 1/2 set? Which might well be ok, or a thick 1/2 set (of H's) with a thick 1/2 set (of HX's), which probably wouldn't be ok!
Will be interesting to see Bert's figures.

Check the shipping calculator now. I saw one or two test cases working now.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

Check the shipping calculator now. I saw one or two test cases working now.

Nope, still doesn't work, see here. (Btw, don't worry about the postcode being shown, that's my old work address).
I wondered if it was ad-blocker missing things up, but I turned it off and it made no difference.

Certificate is good now though .

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Zxcvvbk

If you're considering using ACL bearings in your RB engine, it's a good idea to consult with a reputable mechanic or engine builder who has experience with these types of bearings. They can offer guidance on which bearings to use and how to install them properly to ensure optimal performance and longevity.

Unless you are unaware the comments from Green-Eggs are a result of consulting with a engine builder with specific experience to the S65 rod bearings.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

Check the shipping calculator now. I saw one or two test cases working now.

Attempted to reply to your PM, but got this - Green-Eggs has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

(Didn't see any customer number, perhaps because I didn't attempt to buy??).

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

Check the shipping calculator now. I saw one or two test cases working now.

Not sure this is the right thread, but your PMs are full. Do you all have any plans to make a bearing or recommend an aftermarket bearing for N55/S55?