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      06-23-2023, 12:38 PM   #1
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Video - These are THE BEST rod bearings for your S65/S85 - Mahle Motorsport



We've carried out hundreds if not thousands of rod bearing services over the years, and we've always chosen to use OE BMW bearings and bolts. The reason being that we knew if looked after the BMW bearings could last the lifetime of the car, especially at this stage where they are much more likely to be a weekend car.

However we've now changed and you may ask yourself why after so many years? Well the simple answer is when Mahle Motorsport, the same company responsible for the bearings used in high end motorsport such as F1 and endurance racing, comes out with an extremely high quality product designed and manufactured to their exacting standard well that is something we just can't ignore.

Even holding the bearing in your hand you can tell it's a cut above the rest with the way it has been manufactured.

As this is a primarily US based forum this is just sharing a little bit of information, although if you have trouble getting hold of them please do email us on sales@evolveautomotive.com and we'll see if we can get you a set - They're in high demand already and we get through a fair few sets a week in our workshop.

Now we have our own E92 M3s with the BMW bearings in, we're not going to be replacing them with these as we still stand by the fact that if correctly looked after like we will they're not going to suddenly fail. So don't suddenly think you need to do the service again - but if you haven't had it done yet, why settle for less than the best? That's something we try to live by with all the products we design and sell.
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      06-23-2023, 01:45 PM   #2
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Matt, do you know if these new MAHLE S85/S65 Rod bearings provide the extra clearance needed to solve the OEM spec bearing clearance issue (as done by B.E. bearings) or are they just the same spec as OEM for bearing clearance?
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      06-23-2023, 02:30 PM   #3
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Can you shed more light as to what makes them the best? Specifically, what makes them better than the BE Bearings?
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      06-23-2023, 02:55 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ervin87 View Post
Can you shed more light as to what makes them the best? Specifically, what makes them better than the BE Bearings?
Apparently holding them in your hand....

I'd rather see some measurements, numbers, info on materials, info on quality control and tolerance.
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      06-23-2023, 03:52 PM   #5
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Stupid post and video…
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      06-23-2023, 04:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFerry View Post
Matt, do you know if these new MAHLE S85/S65 Rod bearings provide the extra clearance needed to solve the OEM spec bearing clearance issue (as done by B.E. bearings) or are they just the same spec as OEM for bearing clearance?
Mahle (or more specifically Vandervell who Mahle purchased) have designed a proprietary software to accurately simulate the requirements of the engine, and have specced the bearing clearance accordingly at 55 microns.
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      06-23-2023, 04:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ervin87 View Post
Can you shed more light as to what makes them the best? Specifically, what makes them better than the BE Bearings?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
Apparently holding them in your hand....

I'd rather see some measurements, numbers, info on materials, info on quality control and tolerance.
We chose not to go too in-depth in the video, and it may be something we dive in to deeper with someone who’s background is within engineering.

If you want some information on the technical aspects of the bearings themselves, your best place to go is the manufacturer themselves - https://vandervell.co.uk/aftermarket/our-technology/

https://marmotorsport.com/wp-content...e-Bearings.pdf

https://marmotorsport.com/wp-content...ance-Study.pdf

https://marmotorsport.com/wp-content...er-Marking.pdf
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      06-23-2023, 05:04 PM   #8
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LoL at the thought of buying these instead of BE...
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      06-23-2023, 05:15 PM   #9
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While I can appreciate a new product out on the market, making a claim like “best” needs to come with supporting data and facts.
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      06-23-2023, 05:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt@Evolve View Post
Mahle (or more specifically Vandervell who Mahle purchased) have designed a proprietary software to accurately simulate the requirements of the engine, and have specced the bearing clearance accordingly at 55 microns.
Which is 0.055mm, and indeed it's more than them OEM nominal clearance of 0.0381mm , and interestingly slightly less than BE's v1 0.0597 mm. [edit] Just found out that BE's v2 bearings have slightly larger Nominal Rod Bearing Clearance of 0.0681 mm (0.00268 inch), curious.

Btw, you can't tell anything much of it's quality by holding it in your hand

Last edited by Assimilator1; 06-23-2023 at 05:28 PM..
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      06-25-2023, 04:44 PM   #11
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I feel like its weird to come to an enthusiast forum with an unproven product, say its the best, and say, forget about those other guys with the proven product, buy this instead.

As far as I know, no engine has ever spun BE Bearings, without some other sort of precipitating issue. (I know some have spun but the issue was traced back to something else IIRC.)

I guess its nice to have options, I will let other people fuss with this.

I literally have never seen a logical reason for NOT choosing BE Bearings. And anyone that chooses BMW bearings is just replacing their bad product with more bad product. Why bother? Its not even like you save money.
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      06-26-2023, 04:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1984 View Post
...........

I literally have never seen a logical reason for NOT choosing BE Bearings. And anyone that chooses BMW bearings is just replacing their bad product with more bad product. Why bother? Its not even like you save money.
Ignoring the OEM bearings, it is far cheaper to get ACL bearings here in the UK than it is to get BE bearings (even when the ACL bearings come from the US and are mixed and hand measured!). So there's a logical reason for ya
Perhaps these Mahle bearings will be a worthy alternative here in the UK at least? (although I've no idea how much they are).

Last edited by Assimilator1; 06-28-2023 at 03:29 PM..
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      06-26-2023, 05:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt@Evolve View Post
“Now we have our own E92 M3s with the BMW bearings in, we're not going to be replacing them with these as we still stand by the fact that if correctly looked after like we will they're not going to suddenly fail.”
This statement calls into question the science and or reputation of your belief that these Mahle bearings are the best solution.
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      06-27-2023, 11:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Assimilator1 View Post
Ignoring the OEM bearings, it is far cheaper to get ACL bearings here in the UK than it is to get BE bearings (even when the ACL bearings come from the US and are mixed and hand measured!). So there's a logical reason for ya
Perhaps these Mahle bearings will be a worthy alternative here in the UK at least? (although I've not idea how much they are).
Hah, fair enough, I am not familiar with the global trade and economy for BE Bearings

ACL is still way better than BMWs, if BE bearings went away tomorrow I think ACL might be second best. - but I also stopped investigating the better bearing issue after I had mine done. (BE + ARP bolts.)
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      06-27-2023, 07:00 PM   #15
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Just another clickbait statement & video!
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      06-28-2023, 03:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOW4LYF View Post
Just another clickbait statement & video!
I wouldn't go that far by any means, Mahle are real bearings after all, and a reputable make too, right? And they are increased clearance bearings too, so again seem like a worthy rival to BE bearings.

And I've found a price for them this time! Mahle bearings are £349 from MAR Motorsport (pretty decent ), whereas BE Bearings from Areeve for example are £737!! (I couldn't find anyone else who sells them, from a quick look anyway. Btw in Q1 2020, they were £600).
Maybe now the companies selling BE bearings in the UK will stop the price gouging!?

Last edited by Assimilator1; 07-07-2023 at 05:50 PM..
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      06-28-2023, 10:12 PM   #17
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Mahle owns Clevite, which made the BMW bearings and makes the VAC and BE bearings.
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      06-28-2023, 11:38 PM   #18
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so long story short.... they've been out for 3 months and that's it.
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      06-29-2023, 08:13 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Assimilator1 View Post
I wouldn't go that far by any means, Mahle are real bearings after all, and a reputable make too, right? And they are increased clearance bearings too, so again seem like a worthy rival to BE bearings.

And I've found a price for them this time! Mahle bearings are £349 from MAR Motorsport (pretty decent ), whereas BE Bearings from Areeve for example are £737!! (I couldn't find anyone else who sells them, from a quick look anyway. Btw in Q1 2020, they were £600).
Maybe now the companies selling BE bearings will stop the price gouging!?
BE hasn't increased prices since the beginning of time. Maybe that price includes gaskets and oil?

There are technical differences between BE and Mahle Motorsport bearings. More on that later in a separate write up. But for now, the current BE V2 shells are a Mahle VP2 base metal shell with Silver Oxide overlay, whereas these Mahle Motorsport bearings are also a Mahle VP2 base metal shell with Lead-Indium overlay. The VP2 is an 85-Rockwell base of steel with bronze embedded over the top. This base shell is pressed into shape, machined for eccentricity, before the overlay plating is applied.

The VP2 base shell is FAR superior to anything by ACL, as is the Silver Oxide and Lead-Indium overlays as well.
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      06-29-2023, 08:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Assimilator1 View Post
I wouldn't go that far by any means, Mahle are real bearings after all, and a reputable make too, right? And they are increased clearance bearings too, so again seem like a worthy rival to BE bearings.

And I've found a price for them this time! Mahle bearings are £349 from MAR Motorsport (pretty decent ), whereas BE Bearings from Areeve for example are £737!! (I couldn't find anyone else who sells them, from a quick look anyway. Btw in Q1 2020, they were £600).
Maybe now the companies selling BE bearings will stop the price gouging!?
Just wondering if people in the U.K. might be better off buying B.E. Bearings directly from the B.E. website and then paying for the shipping over to Britain. When I convert the website price of $589 to British pounds (£) I get £464 - which is much less than the price Areeve quoted you. Even if the air shipping from the USA to U.K. was ~£20 (or thereabouts) the total with shipping would still represent a >£230 saving over the Areeve U.K. price for B.E. Bearings, and there's no VAT because the sale is outside of the U.K. (I think). Just some food for thought and something to consider. I didn't include the price of bolts in this comparison.
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      07-07-2023, 05:47 PM   #21
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No, sadly VAT would have to be added (20%), and import duty (3-4% IIRC), and bank commission for foreign exchange (~3%), so let's say a round 27% on top, that makes it £589 + shipping of ~£20, so £609, a lot more, but still quite a bit cheaper than Areeve!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green-Eggs View Post
BE hasn't increased prices since the beginning of time. Maybe that price includes gaskets and oil?

......

The VP2 base shell is FAR superior to anything by ACL, as is the Silver Oxide and Lead-Indium overlays as well.
Re BE prices, interesting, whilst a little bit of Areeve's price increase could be explained by inflation (particularly UK/Europe energy prices), it can't account for the big difference, nor does £ to $ exchange rate make any real difference as it's only slightly worse than it was 3 1/2 yrs ago.....

Re VP2 vs ACL, based on what?
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      11-04-2023, 03:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt@Evolve View Post
Mahle (or more specifically Vandervell who Mahle purchased) have designed a proprietary software to accurately simulate the requirements of the engine, and have specced the bearing clearance accordingly at 55 microns.
I decided to go with Mahle rod bearings after a lot of research as I was impressed by the lengths Mahle have gone to in the manufacture and quality control. I had planned on bringing my car up to you unfortunately the guy I spoke to couldn’t give me a satisfactory answer as to why you use Motul 5/50 oil over 10/60 recommended by BMW other than our engine tuner said so.
I do have a question I’d like to ask on an open forum though. Why do you charge £691 for a set when retail is £349?
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