What is more fun and raw than e90/92 for similar cost?

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by STooK

If I ever crash my e92 M3, I'll probably buy another S2000. The M is cooler in many ways but the "raw" driving experience can't match the S2k. Definitely not as fast but it's so fun to drive. Probably my favorite of all the cars I've owned.

I feel crazy saying it, but I’m considering an S2000. At the price point, you’re getting a supreme quality AP2 S2000 or a craigslist special E92. What would be your pick and why?

I’m a little ways out from getting another toy, but I just keep boiling it down between another E9x M3 and an S2000. I had considered a nice E36 M3/4/5, but now those are creeping up in price. For the money, I find the AP2 vs E9x M3 debate more in line.

[SAMM3Y]

Lotus Elise or the poor mans version... mx5

[M3R1]

Click the link below if you would like my personal experience of the 6th gen 1LE. I certainly fits the criteria listed in the OP and at very least should be considered. The car is unmatched for the driving experience/dollar...

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...9&postcount=13

[JPWEraser]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

I feel crazy saying it, but I’m considering an S2000. At the price point, you’re getting a supreme quality AP2 S2000 or a craigslist special E92. What would be your pick and why?

I’m a little ways out from getting another toy, but I just keep boiling it down between another E9x M3 and an S2000. I had considered a nice E36 M3/4/5, but now those are creeping up in price. For the money, I find the AP2 vs E9x M3 debate more in line.

I would go with an AP1 if you can. The engine is so much more pleasurable to drive hard and it's really easy to swap over interior and exterior bits from the AP2 car if you like those better (I did). The S2000 is a fantastic car.

Also, another vote for Z4M. I had a roadster which the "hardcore" guys would call heresy but I don't care. It was a heck of a lot of fun to drive with the top down.

[dmk08]

Ive seen Mustang GT350s in the low 30s.

Even a Mustang GT with the power pack and manual. The coyote is an amazing engine and the GT is a great drivers car.

S2000 ewww. I think those come with a mandatory man bun.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by JPWEraser

I would go with an AP1 if you can. The engine is so much more pleasurable to drive hard and it's really easy to swap over interior and exterior bits from the AP2 car if you like those better (I did). The S2000 is a fantastic car.

Also, another vote for Z4M. I had a roadster which the "hardcore" guys would call heresy but I don't care. It was a heck of a lot of fun to drive with the top down.

Valid points. I’ve heard the AP2 is a little softer - are the suspension changes foundational or are they just altered? Meaning if you snagged an AP1, minor aftermarket changes would be ideal and an AP2 doesn’t have geometry changes.

I still think the Z4MC is a bargain. It has all the right ingredients to be the super collectible, but prices have been flat for years (which also means they aren’t going down).

Originally Posted by dmk08

Ive seen Mustang GT350s in the low 30s.

Even a Mustang GT with the power pack and manual. The coyote is an amazing engine and the GT is a great drivers car.

S2000 ewww. I think those come with a mandatory man bun.

I do think that comes with the region. Here, an S2000 is almost exclusively driven by some old guy that brings it out of the garage for 1000 miles a year. I remember in Atlanta, mustaches and plaid was a pre-req.

[STooK]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

I feel crazy saying it, but I’m considering an S2000. At the price point, you’re getting a supreme quality AP2 S2000 or a craigslist special E92. What would be your pick and why?

I’m a little ways out from getting another toy, but I just keep boiling it down between another E9x M3 and an S2000. I had considered a nice E36 M3/4/5, but now those are creeping up in price. For the money, I find the AP2 vs E9x M3 debate more in line.

Do you still have your M3? For me the dream combo would be an e90 M3 and a s2000. But if I had to choose between a nice example s2k vs a e9x M3 in the same price range (not as nice) I'd go w/ the s2k unless you need the practicality of the M3. They drive very differently and I think the s2k might be slightly more fun to drive even with less power but it is a 2 seater convertible and basically no practicality. The M3 is just better at doing everything all around and it has a little more cool factor. However, I would not want a beat up one with 80k+ miles on it unless it's strictly for a daily.

It's different for everyone though, and the s2000 is definitely not for everyone. However, for me there was nothing better than ripping through the gears and hitting vtec with the top down. That was a true driving bliss for me. I'd say def test drive one (and hit redline) before committing to one. Good luck!

[JPWEraser]

The suspension changes were minor (spring rates and geometry) to address understeer. Think of it as the LCI changes in the BMWs. The biggest AP2 change other than the small cosmetics was the increase in displacement from 2.0Lto 2.2L and the lower redline to achieve the same power output as the AP1 and a slight torque increase. A lot of AP1 owners complained about having to keep the revs high to get drivable power out of the engine so Honda changed it.

Personally, I didn't care about the suspension changes because I knew I was going to go aftermarket anyway and I also didn't care about the cosmetic changes because I knew I could swap out the headlights, tail lights, and interior panels for the AP2 versions easily. I did, however, want the 9k red line. Mine was supercharged on AEM EMS v2 tuned by Jeff Evans and it was so fun to drive. I have to say that the transmission is one of if not the best I've ever driven.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by STooK

Do you still have your M3? For me the dream combo would be an e90 M3 and a s2000. But if I had to choose between a nice example s2k vs a e9x M3 in the same price range (not as nice) I'd go w/ the s2k unless you need the practicality of the M3. They drive very differently and I think the s2k might be slightly more fun to drive even with less power but it is a 2 seater convertible and basically no practicality. The M3 is just better at doing everything all around and it has a little more cool factor. However, I would not want a beat up one with 80k+ miles on it unless it's strictly for a daily.

It's different for everyone though, and the s2000 is definitely not for everyone. However, for me there was nothing better than ripping through the gears and hitting vtec with the top down. That was a true driving bliss for me. I'd say def test drive one (and hit redline) before committing to one. Good luck!

Bah, I wish. Short story is a careless teen didn't understand how traffic worked and totaled out my forever car in a spec that took me years to locate. Still sour on the subject almost two years later; just ask me about it

Not trying to take over the thread, but would like to stimulate some conversation. For me personally, the car would be purely for fun. Company car for me and recently bought my wife something nice - I want something that's an event each time I get in and will more times than not be the only being in the car. I've told my wife a hundred times over that an S2000 would be great...if it wasn't a convertible. I always circle back to how perfect my E90M stripper was with my only real complaint is I wish it weighed less. High revs sure are addicting... At the price for a super nice E9x, I could about get two S2000s. For my needs, I'm not sure if an M3 is twice the fun.

[JPWEraser]

Hardtop!

I had an OEM one but the Mugen hardtop looks nice too.

[14_deltaM3]

At some point in our near future, we’ll be returning to this thread and realizing that when it was current, we could have all bought s2000s for cheap money before they exploded in value or became impossible to find (or both).

Just like with that Datsun that sold recently for crazy money, the s2000 has all the ingredients to appreciate heavily:
1) a great history and real heritage
2) it’s excellent to drive, even now
3) it possesses traits that are all but impossible to replicate now (na, 9000rpm, 6 speed)
4) timeless and handsome design

I’ve lusted after it since I was in grade 8 and it hit the market. Together with the Type R DC2 integra, an all time great. I just wish I had the space for an occasional car to complement the m3.

[Not Sure]

i bought an OG s2k new in 2001. fun car but i don't miss it. an E9X is just as fun and loads more usable.

[W///]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Bah, I wish. Short story is a careless teen didn't understand how traffic worked and totaled out my forever car in a spec that took me years to locate. Still sour on the subject almost two years later; just ask me about it

Not trying to take over the thread, but would like to stimulate some conversation. For me personally, the car would be purely for fun. Company car for me and recently bought my wife something nice - I want something that's an event each time I get in and will more times than not be the only being in the car. I've told my wife a hundred times over that an S2000 would be great...if it wasn't a convertible. I always circle back to how perfect my E90M stripper was with my only real complaint is I wish it weighed less. High revs sure are addicting... At the price for a super nice E9x, I could about get two S2000s. For my needs, I'm not sure if an M3 is twice the fun.

When I was looking to add to my E36 and E92 M3, the car had to be a convertible to offer something different. It just offers a more exhilarating drive even at low speed. I actually considered the S2000 as 2 of my buddies had one and I've driven them extensively (AP1 and AP2).

I ended up going for a Z4M Roadster for about the same price, although I'm about to bulletproof the S54, which would wouldn't have to do on the Honda. The reasons I picked the Z4MR:
- S54 is a legendary motor, and I prefer it to the 4 pot in the S2k. Also sounds better
- I've always loved the lines of the Z4M. It's a very aggressive looking car IMO
- While not as raw as the S2000, the Z4MR is a better cruiser (even though in todays standard, that car is pretty damn rough!)

My E92 M3 will be the last car I have that would get sold. But if I were to get a car for purely weekend purposes, I'd probably try something else.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by W///

When I was looking to add to my E36 and E92 M3, the car had to be a convertible to offer something different. It just offers a more exhilarating drive even at low speed. I actually considered the S2000 as 2 of my buddies had one and I've driven them extensively (AP1 and AP2).

I ended up going for a Z4M Roadster for about the same price, although I'm about to bulletproof the S54, which would wouldn't have to do on the Honda. The reasons I picked the Z4MR:
- S54 is a legendary motor, and I prefer it to the 4 pot in the S2k. Also sounds better
- I've always loved the lines of the Z4M. It's a very aggressive looking car IMO
- While not as raw as the S2000, the Z4MR is a better cruiser (even though in todays standard, that car is pretty damn rough!)

My E92 M3 will be the last car I have that would get sold. But if I were to get a car for purely weekend purposes, I'd probably try something else.

I feel that if I were to go Z4M, then it would be Z4MC over Z4MR. But at the price point I’m getting a decent Z, I think I’d rather have another E90/2M.

[W///]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

I feel that if I were to go Z4M, then it would be Z4MC over Z4MR. But at the price point I’m getting a decent Z, I think I’d rather have another E90/2M.

Maybe try driving one. Don't get me wrong, I love my E92 M3, but I was shocked at just how much I love my Z4M. I thought I was getting it mostly because it's a convertible, but I just really enjoy the driving experience just as much as my E92. It's not a Swiss knife liek the E9x, but it feels more of an event.

Also, I've never looked into the stats, but if it's slower than my E92, I sure as hell can't tell. Won't beat the sound though haha

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by W///

Maybe try driving one. Don't get me wrong, I love my E92 M3, but I was shocked at just how much I love my Z4M. I thought I was getting it mostly because it's a convertible, but I just really enjoy the driving experience just as much as my E92. It's not a Swiss knife liek the E9x, but it feels more of an event.

Also, I've never looked into the stats, but if it's slower than my E92, I sure as hell can't tell. Won't beat the sound though haha

I’ve driven some coupes and actually had an Interlagos Blue one in for a PPI when my E90M showed up for sale. Had that not happened, I was full and ready to pull the trigger on the low mileage Z4MC. I had been searching for the E90 spec for about three years and it somehow popped up when I reached give up status. Odd timing.

That said, I have never driven the roadster. Cost removed (which I feel the Z4MR may be the better deal), does the S2000 or the Bimmer get your money? Obviously we see which one actually did but if you were to do it all over again.

[JPWEraser]

Having owned both, at my current age, I would buy a Z4M over the S2000. I loved both cars but I owned them at different stages of my life and I think I did it right. I had the S2000 in my 20s. It's that kind of car, especially modified. The Z4M, while it's no "mature" car, it's a little more sophisticated and an upgrade in just about every way (except for the trans) stock for stock.

If I had to do it all over again there is no question I would supercharge my Z4M, have a subtle drop in the ride height, and a mild exhaust.

I had a roadster which can be had at a lower price. There are a lot of coupe snobs around but let's get real, most of us will never drive the car at 10/10ths to truly see the ill effects of the roadster chassis rigidity and small amount of weight from the soft top mechanism. I think the coupe looks great but it pales in comparison to a roadster with the top down not to mention the driving experience which the coupe can not touch. Before kids, my wife and I took it to the beach several times and cruising with the top down on warm nights with the sea breeze were some of our most fond memories with the car.

[W///]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

I’ve driven some coupes and actually had an Interlagos Blue one in for a PPI when my E90M showed up for sale. Had that not happened, I was full and ready to pull the trigger on the low mileage Z4MC. I had been searching for the E90 spec for about three years and it somehow popped up when I reached give up status. Odd timing.

That said, I have never driven the roadster. Cost removed (which I feel the Z4MR may be the better deal), does the S2000 or the Bimmer get your money? Obviously we see which one actually did but if you were to do it all over again.

Well that's the funny part. The Z4MR and S2000 are roughly the same price wise (unless I understood your question wrong). Mine had 89k miles when I bought it, so it is higher miles, but I only paid $17k for it. I've seen even them cheaper now with a clean Carfax. Mint ones are going for low 20s, while people are asking the same for their beat up E46 M3's.

I'd do it again in a heartbeat to be honest with you. I honestly think the Z4M Roadster is the best bargain in the BMW M lineup at current prices. It's actually one of the cheapest ways to get into an S54 powered car, about 3000 units world wide, all the traits of a classic (NA, 6MT only, hydraulic power steering). I absolutely love the fact that it's a 1 trick pony. Doesn't try to be comfortable, doesn't try to be fuel efficient, doesn't try to be practical. It's literally just a toy.

Originally Posted by JPWEraser

Having owned both, at my current age, I would buy a Z4M over the S2000. I loved both cars but I owned them at different stages of my life and I think I did it right. I had the S2000 in my 20s. It's that kind of car, especially modified. The Z4M, while it's no "mature" car, it's a little more sophisticated and an upgrade in just about every way (except for the trans) stock for stock.

If I had to do it all over again there is no question I would supercharge my Z4M, have a subtle drop in the ride height, and a mild exhaust.

I had a roadster which can be had at a lower price. There are a lot of coupe snobs around but let's get real, most of us will never drive the car at 10/10ths to truly see the ill effects of the roadster chassis rigidity and small amount of weight from the soft top mechanism. I think the coupe looks great but it pales in comparison to a roadster with the top down not to mention the driving experience which the coupe can not touch. Before kids, my wife and I took it to the beach several times and cruising with the top down on warm nights with the sea breeze were some of our most fond memories with the car.

Couldn't agree more. As a mater of fact, I have the exact same combo. I've never had a chance to take the Roadster to the beach yet, but driving it on the Blue Ridge Parkway in the Fall when all the leaves were turning is still one of my favorite automotive experience. Funnily enough, I picked up the car from Ohio.

If it's within the same price as a Coupe, I think I'd still pick the Roadster. No different than the fact I'd rather have a 718 Spyder than the GT4 now.

[pbonsalb]

You could buy and fix up a car line this for $20-30k. Light, raw and none of that sissy stuff like idrive, self shifting, abs, traction control, power windows, power seats, etc. You are driving the car, not computers. Turbocharge the M10 or swap in another motor with appropriate mods and you can have the same power to weight ratio as an E9xM3.

[JRF]

I recently sold my e92 (which I loved very dearly) to make room for a car on my bucket list. my NSX is the best car I have ever driven and i've had owned or driven lots of them. it isn't blindingly fast but it's very easy to drive the car at the limit with confidence. very analog. it checks all the boxes for me.

[Eja144]

Originally Posted by JRF

I recently sold my e92 (which I loved very dearly) to make room for a car on my bucket list. my NSX is the best car I have ever driven and i've had owned or driven lots of them. it isn't blindingly fast but it's very easy to drive the car at the limit with confidence. very analog. it checks all the boxes for me.

Beautiful! This one is on my bucket list as well. How would you compare the power delivery to the E92?

[JRF]

Originally Posted by Eja144

Beautiful! This one is on my bucket list as well. How would you compare the power delivery to the E92?

thx!

the power delivery of the NSX is very similar to the e92 in that it lacks a bit down low but really wakes up in the top half of the revband.

in terms of overall driving experience with the NSX, I think the secret sauce is the seating position, visibility, shifter, and steering feel. it inspires a lot of confidence right off the bat. it is also very low tech which I love. good riddance to iDrive.