BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
Mporium BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-05-2009, 08:18 PM   #1
CRS_M3
New Member
7
Rep
9
Posts

Drives: BMW E92 M3 - AW/CF Roof
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Camber Settings for Track

I just purchased a new set of Pilot Sport Cup+ for the stock 19 Inch wheels. I intend to track the car and not too sure if I need to set some negative camber in the car for these tires. After adjusting Camber, will it affect Toe? Do I need to do a wheel alignment?

Can I just set negative camber on the car without camber plates? Can this be done easily (DIY) or mechanic? If I need camber plates for front and rear, any recommendations?

Thanx for the help!
__________________
M3
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2009, 11:45 AM   #2
Green///Hell
Colonel
Green///Hell's Avatar
United_States
183
Rep
2,873
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3, F15 X5, 1199S
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (5)

there is not much room on the stock setup and to get the PCUPS to work properly you will need to run negative camber.
I think if you're staying with the stock suspension you can use the Dinan top perches to max it out a little bit more. I think you need negative 2-2.2 for those tires
The rear I'm not sure anything is available yet but companies are going to being producing some camber arms You will need to align everything
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2009, 05:02 PM   #3
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

You can get ~-1.4 out of the stock fronts with the pins pulled.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2009, 12:59 AM   #4
m3larson
First Lieutenant
United_States
27
Rep
309
Posts

Drives: 2014 M6 Gran C 1997 M3 Track C
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tucson, AZ

iTrader: (0)

The dealer said they have to remove my front bumper to line up the lasers for an alignment on my lowered M3. If I take it to another shop is there specs somewhere I can have them set the camber to?
__________________
The Verdict: Every other manufacturer should give up on building their own cars and just make M3s instead. -Car and Driver June 2008
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2009, 01:11 AM   #5
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
609
Rep
10,407
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
You can get ~-1.4 out of the stock fronts with the pins pulled.
Are you running on the track and on the street with you pins pulled? Does pulling the pins require and alignment?
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2009, 10:22 AM   #6
attila
Captain
attila's Avatar
83
Rep
629
Posts

Drives: 2015 Mclaren 650s, 2015 GTS4,
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Omaha, NE

iTrader: (0)

I could get -1.2 on the front both side without the pins removed. My BMW service refused to remove the pins since " it is not recommended by BMW". I feel some change, mainly because i was running neutral and positive on one side!! as a factory setup. Would like to find an independent shop to pull the pins out and max - camber.
I am not convinced by the Dinan camber plates. An extra -0.5 degree for $500??!!!
Appreciate 0
      06-04-2009, 11:53 PM   #7
attbimmer
Second Lieutenant
attbimmer's Avatar
13
Rep
260
Posts

Drives: '08 E90 M3, '88 E30 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: socal

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by attila View Post
I could get -1.2 on the front both side without the pins removed. My BMW service refused to remove the pins since " it is not recommended by BMW". I feel some change, mainly because i was running neutral and positive on one side!! as a factory setup. Would like to find an independent shop to pull the pins out and max - camber.
I am not convinced by the Dinan camber plates. An extra -0.5 degree for $500??!!!
Removing the pins is fairly simple. You just need to remove the plastic covers that hold the micro filter and then remove the strut braces. I did it a few weeks ago.

Regarding the Dinan camber plates they are only $250, not $500 (unless that was with labor), and they add -0.7 degrees. They are not adjustable (and will slightly raise the cars front ride height, but are a fairly common way to cheaply add negative camber.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2009, 03:18 AM   #8
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Are you running on the track and on the street with you pins pulled? Does pulling the pins require and alignment?
My understanding is that pulling the pins simply provides more "potential" movement. In order to realize that potential, you need to unbolt and slide the mounts, so alignment seems necessary after that is done as that is not exactly a precise operation, but someone should confirm this.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2009, 08:23 AM   #9
attila
Captain
attila's Avatar
83
Rep
629
Posts

Drives: 2015 Mclaren 650s, 2015 GTS4,
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Omaha, NE

iTrader: (0)

My mistake, I thought Dinan is selling not a pair but a single plate for $250!

I would not pull the pins and adjust the camber without realignment.
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2009, 12:27 PM   #10
FrenchBoy
Lieutenant Colonel
FrenchBoy's Avatar
France
233
Rep
1,508
Posts

Drives: '16 F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
My understanding is that pulling the pins simply provides more "potential" movement. In order to realize that potential, you need to unbolt and slide the mounts, so alignment seems necessary after that is done as that is not exactly a precise operation, but someone should confirm this.
I am planning to have my favorite shop tweak my car alignment by maximizing the camber I can get from the stock setup and going zero toe in the front.

The alignment pin in the shock tower support plate needs to be removed to get maximum camber. Just to be clear, this should be doable from within the engine bay by loosening the 3 suspension bolts on each side and pulling the pin out. No need to pull the suspension assembly out. Is this correct?

On a seperate note, I am also planning to have the shop fit my Schroth 4-point harness in the M3. I have the E46 quick fit kit (from my old E46) but Schroth does not make a E90 quick fit kit yet. The plan is to use the E46 kit and use one of the front seats attachment bolts. Hope it works!
__________________

Current: 2016 F80 M3 6-Speed | SO | AB XT1 | ZCP | M Performance Suspension | GC Camber Plates
Previous: 2009 E90 M3
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2009, 01:55 PM   #11
attila
Captain
attila's Avatar
83
Rep
629
Posts

Drives: 2015 Mclaren 650s, 2015 GTS4,
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Omaha, NE

iTrader: (0)

The alignment pin in the shock tower support plate needs to be removed to get maximum camber. Just to be clear, this should be doable from within the engine bay by loosening the 3 suspension bolts on each side and pulling the pin out. No need to pull the suspension assembly out. Is this correct?

Yes, that's correct!!
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2009, 04:05 PM   #12
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Yes, you should not have to pull the suspension out. You should be able to make the adjustment after loosening the 3 bolts.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2009, 04:54 PM   #13
FrenchBoy
Lieutenant Colonel
FrenchBoy's Avatar
France
233
Rep
1,508
Posts

Drives: '16 F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Thanks guys!
__________________

Current: 2016 F80 M3 6-Speed | SO | AB XT1 | ZCP | M Performance Suspension | GC Camber Plates
Previous: 2009 E90 M3
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2009, 06:33 PM   #14
jml
Major
jml's Avatar
128
Rep
1,144
Posts

Drives: X5M, GT3RS, GT4
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (3)

It's not turning out to be as big of a problem as I thought. If you run higher pressures (40psi back in the paddock), rotate, and flip once, you get reasonable life out of a set of NT01s (4 DE days). The camber curve is much improved on the E90 over the E46. Rear can easily do -2 degrees, which also seems to be fine.
Appreciate 0
      06-06-2009, 04:03 AM   #15
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jml View Post
Rear can easily do -2 degrees, which also seems to be fine.
I have -1.75 in the rear, and that proved to be too negative. Both rear tires were hotter on the insides than the rest of the tire (outside and mid sections were even). That's with about 41-42 psi hot on BFGs. I will have that dialed back. I have -1.95 up front with the camber plates, and that worked well with even temps across both front tires.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-06-2009, 09:48 AM   #16
jml
Major
jml's Avatar
128
Rep
1,144
Posts

Drives: X5M, GT3RS, GT4
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I have -1.75 in the rear, and that proved to be too negative. Both rear tires were hotter on the insides than the rest of the tire (outside and mid sections were even). That's with about 41-42 psi hot on BFGs. I will have that dialed back. I have -1.95 up front with the camber plates, and that worked well with even temps across both front tires.
Cool. I'm just happy the front does not need -3.5 like the E46. I could probably back off the rear a little, but it seems to be wearing fine. The rear does get a little squirrelly putting power down mid exit to exit...
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2009, 07:40 AM   #17
dawgdog
Colonel
148
Rep
2,278
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3, 2016 GT3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, Wa.

iTrader: (0)

I just had springs installed and when they set the camber settings during allignment I ended up with -1.2 in front and, if I recall correctly, -1.7 in the rear.
__________________
2015 f80 M3, 2016 GT3
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2009, 09:13 AM   #18
FrenchBoy
Lieutenant Colonel
FrenchBoy's Avatar
France
233
Rep
1,508
Posts

Drives: '16 F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

You should bring you car to Redmond Town Center this morning ;-)

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274045

Looking forward to checking out your car.
__________________

Current: 2016 F80 M3 6-Speed | SO | AB XT1 | ZCP | M Performance Suspension | GC Camber Plates
Previous: 2009 E90 M3
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2009, 09:28 AM   #19
von_zoom
Captain
von_zoom's Avatar
30
Rep
915
Posts

Drives: 2010 Z06
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Lucid, are you running this on the street? If I recall correctly, you are not running a square set up on the track. By not being square, does this have any effect?

Quote:
I have -1.75 in the rear, .... I will have that dialed back. I have -1.95 up front with the camber plates, and that worked well with even temps across both front tires.
__________________
Thanks, vz
__________________


Previous Track Toy
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2009, 09:48 AM   #20
attila
Captain
attila's Avatar
83
Rep
629
Posts

Drives: 2015 Mclaren 650s, 2015 GTS4,
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Omaha, NE

iTrader: (0)

I asked it in a different thread but more of topic here:

Does anyone running Dinan camber plates with the stock springs?? Is that lift up the front?
Is it worth getting the Dinan springs?? I mean, for the track.
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2009, 11:13 AM   #21
lucid
Major General
lucid's Avatar
United_States
374
Rep
8,033
Posts

Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
Lucid, are you running this on the street? If I recall correctly, you are not running a square set up on the track. By not being square, does this have any effect?
Yes, this is my DD. And, yes, I have a 265/295 setup. -1.9 camber up front reduced understeer nicely, and the car does rotate more easily. I'm pretty happy with it.

-1.75 rear was too much. I was heating up the inside edges of both tires, and lost some grip, but that might have been a pressure issue. I had that dialed back to -1.4.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      06-22-2009, 11:14 AM   #22
m3larson
First Lieutenant
United_States
27
Rep
309
Posts

Drives: 2014 M6 Gran C 1997 M3 Track C
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tucson, AZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Yes, this is my DD. And, yes, I have a 265/295 setup. -1.9 camber up front reduced understeer nicely, and the car does rotate more easily. I'm pretty happy with it.

-1.75 rear was too much. I was heating up the inside edges of both tires, and lost some grip, but that might have been a pressure issue. I had that dialed back to -1.4.
How bad is the wear on your street tires?
__________________
The Verdict: Every other manufacturer should give up on building their own cars and just make M3s instead. -Car and Driver June 2008
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:15 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST