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      10-03-2018, 12:27 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
contact trackspec and ask them to make you a set without the drill holes. they are very helpful and may be able to do that for you.
they were able to get me a non-powdercoated set so i could paint them.

if you want a clean install, install them on top and glue them on. if you try to mount from the bottom, the cuts are going to show and it won't be very clean at all.
Thanks!
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      10-07-2018, 08:33 PM   #90
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These hood vents look awsome !
How long did it take you to do the whole installation ?
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      10-07-2018, 08:44 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by PsychCA View Post
These hood vents look awsome !
How long did it take you to do the whole installation ?
About 4-5 hours

With 2 of those hours coming from measuring and re measuring and again and again
Standing back and looking
Then rethinking lol
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      10-07-2018, 08:47 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StripclubDJ View Post
About 4-5 hours

With 2 of those hours coming from measuring and re measuring and again and again
Standing back and looking
Then rethinking lol
Thanks for your quick reply, bud.

I am kind of the same: spending my time, measuring, re measuring, over and over again to make sure everything is all good. LOL

So, I will base it on a full day work.

The hood was not too difficult to cut out ?
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      10-07-2018, 09:22 PM   #93
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I used a 4.5" thin metal cutting wheel. Cut through the aluminum like butter.
Also get a smoothing sandpaper wheel for finishing.
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      10-07-2018, 09:58 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychCA View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by StripclubDJ View Post
About 4-5 hours

With 2 of those hours coming from measuring and re measuring and again and again
Standing back and looking
Then rethinking lol
Thanks for your quick reply, bud.

I am kind of the same: spending my time, measuring, re measuring, over and over again to make sure everything is all good. LOL

So, I will base it on a full day work.

The hood was not too difficult to cut out ?
It's not to bad, after you tape down the stencils , drill the holes out in each corner , I used a 3in cut off wheel to start each cut line, then my snap in air saw and fine cut blade to cut along the stencil

Then a barrel sander to finish the edges
There's a decent write up on here from the blue e92 where you can get a idea and then go from there

I've done a lot of e46 vents , gtr vents , but my e92 was the first e92 I did
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      10-07-2018, 10:04 PM   #95
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So it's gonna be my next work to prep my car, during the upcoming cold weather.

Do you think a Dremel would do the job fine ?
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      10-07-2018, 10:19 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychCA View Post
So it's gonna be my next work to prep my car, during the upcoming cold weather.

Do you think a Dremel would do the job fine ?
I'm gonna say no.

You gotta Remember you have to cut the frame under the hood off too


To do this right, air saw, grinder , drill and the right tools are required bud
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      01-27-2019, 05:16 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychCA View Post
So it's gonna be my next work to prep my car, during the upcoming cold weather.

Do you think a Dremel would do the job fine ?
You can use one. Just prepare to take a lot more time and go through a bunch of discs.

I don't own an air saw so I used a dremel for the curved areas on the left and right vents.

I used an angle grinder with cutting wheel for the straight cuts. Angle grinders are cheap and good to have. You'll save a lot of time.
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      01-28-2019, 05:40 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychCA View Post
So it's gonna be my next work to prep my car, during the upcoming cold weather.

Do you think a Dremel would do the job fine ?
Get the heavy duty black cut off wheels and you'll be fine.
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      02-24-2019, 03:13 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by dogbone View Post
After driving the hood vents for awhile, I really like them and I believe they allow the engine to cool a bit quicker, but they are not a miracle solution to prevent heat build up. Don't expect to install hood vents and see a significant drop in your oil and water temps. From what we've seen, with hard track use, most pedestrian/commercially-available solutions like larger oil coolers and hood vents don't really prevent heat build up as much as they allow for quicker cooling during an off/cool down lap.

As far as the discussions about grip/downforce and hood vents, again, I cannot say there's any big change there with hood vents either. But I will say that if I consider all the small mods I've done recently, my car is running very well and feels great----Track Spec hood vents, Slon-Workshop DCT pan, Viper ACR-style fender cutouts (that offend everyone ), do88 DCT cooler, canards.

Each mod nets a fairly small change. But I believe that together, all them combine into a sum greater than the parts.

hehe people like to say to me---"well, I see E92 M3's out there in pro races. Clearly SOMEONE has figured it out". uh huh...well they have $200k+ into that car, and they're not in a mood to share! To truly prevent heat build up, you have to explore MUCH more expensive solutions like dry sump systems with remote oil reservoirs. But you're talking $8000+, and this kind of nonsense only goes in a race car.

I'll leave you with this thought-----last summer, we were at Sonoma Raceway. There were (2) M235 full-on factory-built race cars there for testing with pro drivers. We were talking to one of the drivers. They were working with BMW to overcome some issues and were waiting on BMW for parts. Can you guess what the issues were with the cars?...........Yup, they were overheating.......It's a tough problem---especially when you put on fast tires and aero.
Dogbone I think you make more heat than most of us with the supercharger.
What I see pro race teams doing consistently, it's a lot of work, but the heat exchangers are installed at an angle, maybe 45 degrees. That allows for more surface area which does two things, the obvious more surface area more heat exchange but second is it reduces the restriction allowing more air flow. Attached is a photo from motorsport24.de on their pro setup. They have the radiator angled forward then either an air box that pulls from above the radiator without detracting from radiator flow or full race air intake in front of the wheels below the car.

The problems I see with the stock design, the air comes through the small kidney grills, then we have cold air ducts that pull a portion of the air that was meant for the heat exchangers into the engine.

Not only the motorsport24.de (see photos) , I was at AutoClub Speedway for the OC Festival of Speed, looking at GMG racing's 911 car. They have a big heat exchanger angled into a reverse NACA duct in the hood to get more surface area as well, really big because the motor is in the back so they have a lot of space to work with. The reverse NACA duct seems to be the trend as well. Attached photos of the BMW GT-3 and DTM cars, both using reverse NACA ducts.
It's just some time and money. I think Seibon offers a reverse NACA duct carbon hood, don't know how good the quality is. The motorsport24 setup is using two electric fans vs one large one. I wonder if a higher powered fan would make a difference. What if you put computer case fans below the louvers in the hood to pull hot air out?

DTM is the fastest sedan racer in the world, almost an F1 car with a closed cockpit. It is full carbon monocoque chassis multi million dollar per year, and the rules allow a lot of aero, a lot of aero engineering there.

I bought the CSF heat exchangers last year, didn't notice much difference if at all, and sure enough just weeks after I bought them I got a call from a customer to buy some filtration stuff from me. He is a custom shop that builds heat exchangers for a lot of pro race teams. He said I should have told him I needed heat exchangers he would custom make them for me.
So if we can come up with a design for larger heat exchangers I could probably get a group buy on them. It seems to me that even without angling there is a lot of space between my A/C condenser and the lower grill, maybe a huge oil cooler right there? I think the oil cooler is more important than more coolant exchanger but maybe I am wrong.
Has anybody tried wrapping the exhaust manifolds and pipe for 3 feet? I used to do that on my 72 Camaro RS race build. It did help keep drop coolant temp by keeping it cool under the hood. It isn't only underhood temps, when I drive my car and it is 60 degrees outside I still need to run the A/C sometimes because the heat radiates through, the HVAC just on vent is blowing air 15 degrees warmer than what it is outside.

By the way I often turn on the heat full blast when I am on track, the windows are down, just another way to pull heat from the coolant. Or in the pit between track sessions to cool it down.
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      02-24-2019, 09:34 PM   #100
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I did something similar to fight heat.

Went with Geoffe Steel intake, then angles the radiator, cut come more of the bumper and ducted the radiator. Eliminated the power steering cooler by going electric. Then oil cooler went where the old intake was lower right of photo and then another one in series went on the left in front of and lower than the DCT. These things have solved my heat issues thus far. Also removed AC.

Plus the hood venting.
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      02-25-2019, 02:05 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warp10 View Post
I did something similar to fight heat.

Went with Geoffe Steel intake, then angles the radiator, cut come more of the bumper and ducted the radiator. Eliminated the power steering cooler by going electric. Then oil cooler went where the old intake was lower right of photo and then another one in series went on the left in front of and lower than the DCT. These things have solved my heat issues thus far. Also removed AC.

Plus the hood venting.
How much overall oil capacity did you pick up warp10?
Your setup looks cool, like the intake setup.
I wonder if a small fan
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...3018/overview/
Would help
The $2000 plus kit from SSP for DCT has a nice cooler and also a similar fan.
I wonder if a few of them to make the various coolers more effective. Maybe one on a hood vent to push hot air out the hood.

These have decent airflow and are available in a lot of diameters 4”, 5”, 6”, 7.5”
https://webstore.spalusa.com/en-us/p...rformance.aspx
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      02-25-2019, 05:25 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 72dan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by warp10 View Post
I did something similar to fight heat.

Went with Geoffe Steel intake, then angles the radiator, cut come more of the bumper and ducted the radiator. Eliminated the power steering cooler by going electric. Then oil cooler went where the old intake was lower right of photo and then another one in series went on the left in front of and lower than the DCT. These things have solved my heat issues thus far. Also removed AC.

Plus the hood venting.
How much overall oil capacity did you pick up warp10?
Your setup looks cool, like the intake setup.
I wonder if a small fan
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...3018/overview/
Would help
The $2000 plus kit from SSP for DCT has a nice cooler and also a similar fan.
I wonder if a few of them to make the various coolers more effective. Maybe one on a hood vent to push hot air out the hood.

These have decent airflow and are available in a lot of diameters 4”, 5”, 6”, 7.5”
https://webstore.spalusa.com/en-us/p...rformance.aspx
Didn't pick up that much capacity just air flow.

Didn't add any fans except for 2 on the radiator to replace the OEM fan. But you could keep the oem fan. The radiator is from a 135.
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      02-26-2019, 12:52 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 72dan View Post
Dogbone I think you make more heat than most of us with the supercharger.
What I see pro race teams doing consistently, it's a lot of work, but the heat exchangers are installed at an angle, maybe 45 degrees. That allows for more surface area which does two things, the obvious more surface area more heat exchange but second is it reduces the restriction allowing more air flow. Attached is a photo from motorsport24.de on their pro setup. They have the radiator angled forward then either an air box that pulls from above the radiator without detracting from radiator flow or full race air intake in front of the wheels below the car.

The problems I see with the stock design, the air comes through the small kidney grills, then we have cold air ducts that pull a portion of the air that was meant for the heat exchangers into the engine.

Not only the motorsport24.de (see photos) , I was at AutoClub Speedway for the OC Festival of Speed, looking at GMG racing's 911 car. They have a big heat exchanger angled into a reverse NACA duct in the hood to get more surface area as well, really big because the motor is in the back so they have a lot of space to work with. The reverse NACA duct seems to be the trend as well. Attached photos of the BMW GT-3 and DTM cars, both using reverse NACA ducts.
It's just some time and money. I think Seibon offers a reverse NACA duct carbon hood, don't know how good the quality is. The motorsport24 setup is using two electric fans vs one large one. I wonder if a higher powered fan would make a difference. What if you put computer case fans below the louvers in the hood to pull hot air out?

DTM is the fastest sedan racer in the world, almost an F1 car with a closed cockpit. It is full carbon monocoque chassis multi million dollar per year, and the rules allow a lot of aero, a lot of aero engineering there.

I bought the CSF heat exchangers last year, didn't notice much difference if at all, and sure enough just weeks after I bought them I got a call from a customer to buy some filtration stuff from me. He is a custom shop that builds heat exchangers for a lot of pro race teams. He said I should have told him I needed heat exchangers he would custom make them for me.
So if we can come up with a design for larger heat exchangers I could probably get a group buy on them. It seems to me that even without angling there is a lot of space between my A/C condenser and the lower grill, maybe a huge oil cooler right there? I think the oil cooler is more important than more coolant exchanger but maybe I am wrong.
Has anybody tried wrapping the exhaust manifolds and pipe for 3 feet? I used to do that on my 72 Camaro RS race build. It did help keep drop coolant temp by keeping it cool under the hood. It isn't only underhood temps, when I drive my car and it is 60 degrees outside I still need to run the A/C sometimes because the heat radiates through, the HVAC just on vent is blowing air 15 degrees warmer than what it is outside.

By the way I often turn on the heat full blast when I am on track, the windows are down, just another way to pull heat from the coolant. Or in the pit between track sessions to cool it down.
No doubt, the supercharger adds heat to the equation. Also, my driving is time-attack-style driving which also piles on the heat quickly.

But it is worth noting that a stock E9x M3 simply runs hot from the factory when pushing hard. I'll retell this story here: My friend used to run an E90 M3 with a TOTALLY stock engine----no power mods, no intake mods, no tune, no pulley.....nothing. That car overheated all the time during 20 minute HPDE sessions and he had no aero, stock calipers and was running on Hankook RS3 tires, and was over 2:00 laps at Buttonwillow. He went through the trouble of having a shop custom build him oil and coolant coolers. In fact, I think his oil cooler setup actually ADDED another cooler to the setup. He needed to run more oil than stock. Did all this work prevent the car from overheating? Nope. But he said the oil would cool noticeably faster when he backed off and did a cool down lap. So, the problem is sneaky and persistent and inherent to the car when wringing out the hi revs and trying to go fast or running full sessions.

To be fair to my car, it can run 1:51 laps at Buttonwillow 13CW over and over and be fine. But running 1:47 laps or trying to get that elusive 1:46 is a whole other matter. From a heat standpoint, that extra 4-5 seconds quicker is brutal on the car. I did install the oil diverter valve which seems to be helping. I'll be curious to try that some more.

The pictures that you included------I have no doubt there are solutions out there, but look at those cars------I mean, the time and money spent to make those cars what they are is astronomical at the very least---far beyond what any enthusiast can afford. You said it yourself----it's a lot of work. And as I've said before, they are not in the sharing mood with that stuff. You tried the enthusiast-affordable solution of CSF and saw little-to-no benefit as far as overheating, which is consistent with just about everyone else. I mentioned a couple weeks ago that I believe what you get with CSF is better welding and no plastic parts which improves reliability. I believe there is value in reliability, but that's not solving the overheating. Changing the position/angle of the coolers sounds awesome, and I'd be curious to hear more, but Seibon only makes those vented hoods for coupes. Sedan hoods are slightly different..... Plus, I have a supercharger intercooler/heat exchanger that sits IN FRONT of the oil cooler to deal with that takes up space, so I'm just a problem child all the way around......hehe none of this is easy when you have a supercharged sedan!

Since you're in SoCal and do hit the track, I'm surprised that we have never met. I saw in another thread that you've been building cars for 30 years. It would be fun to see you out there some time and chat.
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      04-26-2019, 11:00 PM   #104
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Guys this hasnt been mentioned in this thread yet, but...
What about water? Rain.

Any opinions/experience?
Short term I dont really see many issues arising, but long term I can see rust build up, etc. Thoughts?
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      04-27-2019, 01:19 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
Guys this hasnt been mentioned in this thread yet, but...
What about water? Rain.

Any opinions/experience?
Short term I dont really see many issues arising, but long term I can see rust build up, etc. Thoughts?
Not a big deal at all. Everything under the hood is designed to get wet.
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      04-27-2019, 06:15 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GewoW View Post
Guys this hasnt been mentioned in this thread yet, but...
What about water? Rain.

Any opinions/experience?
Short term I dont really see many issues arising, but long term I can see rust build up, etc. Thoughts?
The engine gets extremely wet and driving in the rain. Water passes through the ac condenser and radiator. But since engine is hot it evaporates quickly. The hood vents is right over the accessories and they get wet all ready.

Next time you drive in the rain. And the engine is not at full temp, pause/stop and open your hood. It will be all wet up front.
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      04-29-2019, 12:07 AM   #107
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Anybody have just the center vent installed on their M3? Curious to see how it looks. Considering just center, or should I suck it up and do all 3?
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      04-29-2019, 01:11 AM   #108
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Quote:
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Anybody have just the center vent installed on their M3? Curious to see how it looks. Considering just center, or should I suck it up and do all 3?
All 3 or gtfo
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      04-29-2019, 01:56 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StripclubDJ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Anybody have just the center vent installed on their M3? Curious to see how it looks. Considering just center, or should I suck it up and do all 3?
All 3 or gtfo
Aww fook ok boss
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      04-29-2019, 07:40 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
Anybody have just the center vent installed on their M3? Curious to see how it looks. Considering just center, or should I suck it up and do all 3?
If you're going to do just the center, do a three row vent... the first couple of rows aren't in a good position to do much.
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