E93 M3 Random starting problem. (100% SOLVED)

[dbeard]

Hello,

Have you checked to see if your car has been serviced (or is a candidate) for the JBBE battery terminal recall? While I drive a different model all together, I have personally experienced or been witness to, five different vehicles that displayed some of these very symptoms you have described. Ultimately, all were resolved when the battery cable connector to the fuse box was replaced with an updated terminal at the back of the fuse box.

Just a thought..

Good luck with your car.

kind regards,

Dan

[SaNGRia]

Originally Posted by dbeard

Hello,

Have you checked to see if your car has been serviced (or is a candidate) for the JBBE battery terminal recall? While I drive a different model all together, I have personally experienced or been witness to, five different vehicles that displayed some of these very symptoms you have described. Ultimately, all were resolved when the battery cable connector to the fuse box was replaced with an updated terminal at the back of the fuse box.

Just a thought..

Good luck with your car.

kind regards,

Dan

Thank you Dan,
Yeah one of the first thing was checking the recall status. But no luck. There is no recall for my vehicle. Only 2 part replaced with the first owner according to the dealer data. idrive controller knob because of scratches, other one trunk lid. And fuel pressure rail sensor wafter i purchased the car
Be honest with you according to the Live Terminal Screen on DIS or ISTA all the terminals are getting the normal values from the battery or JBE unit except Terminal 50E which is not related to battery or battery cable. It is related to circuit of CAS/DME modules and ofcourse connected to starter.

So either DME unit has relay or some sort of connection problem or simply the clutch sensor sometimes doesnt work.

Here is the recall you are talking about i guess : http://autoweek.com/article/car-news...-north-america

[SaNGRia]

Does anyone answer this quick question?



If the Clutch sensor is not responding during this starting problem, which module can effect the circuit that CAS module can not show the status of STARTER LOCK SWITCH for CLUTCH PEDAL?

Or can we say Starter Lock Switch (Clutch Sensor) is individual and Cas can show the status anytime even DME or other module has connection a problem ?

[SaNGRia]

Problem came back today and i decided to remove all the after market lights. Unplugged LUX H8 V4 Angel eyes and replaced Super bright license plate lights with the OEM led lights! And i plugged the charger about 3 hours. And than test drove it. There is significant power increases, car was acting like M button on! I don't know why it is like that but i love it!

Other than that does anyone know how to disable cold/warm bulb checks? I couldn't find anything in my NFRM module : (2008 FRM 1)

KALTUEBERWACHUNG_SL_R
KALTUEBERWACHUNG_SL_L
WARMUEBERWACHUNG_SL_V_L
WARMUEBERWACHUNG_SL_V_R

All i have is KALTUEBERW_SL_V : nitch_aktiv
WARMUEBERW_SL_V : nitch_aktiv

Other than i am faithful about the aftermarket led light solution because of :

http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...sing-no-start/

[Peertwelve]

Originally Posted by SaNGRia

Does anyone answer this quick question?

Attachment 1261917

If the Clutch sensor is not responding during this starting problem, which module can effect the circuit that CAS module can not show the status of STARTER LOCK SWITCH for CLUTCH PEDAL?

Or can we say Starter Lock Switch (Clutch Sensor) is individual and Cas can show the status anytime even DME or other module has connection a problem ?

A dealer could.... Applaud the determination but you've been at this for months!

[SaNGRia]

Originally Posted by Peertwelve

A dealer could.... Applaud the determination but you've been at this for months!

Thank you. This topic became my diary! And I'm sure it will help some people in the future!

Dealer doesn't want to answer unless you drop the car there. I called and specifically asked them, All i hear is bring the car let us diagnose it!

Now i learnt how not to get any error message to DME, since i see the clutch switch either not working or responding, i am not attempting to start the car, so that way no more error messages due to Dme response ! And i wait like 5-10 min go back and unlock the car, Va Laa clutch is working again!

I purchased DME relay and clutch switch sensor. If that doesn't solve the problem i will probably go to dealer. There is one guy who i talked, he said lets do the diagnose together, if i find it you can fix it so at least u will find the problem! (i am not sure about that but i will give a shot)

And car did not start today either, so there is nothing to do with Led lights. Somehow the performance increased tho!

[SaNGRia]

If you ever wonder which one is the main relay on your DME box for e9x m3 this is the answer. Dealer does not tell you which one is main relay. They asking you what are the numbers on the relay that you have!

So it is called Salmon Red Relay! This is master DME Relay!




Here is the ISTA P s65(MSS60) DME Main relay picture! The reason i am writing this is i purchased the wrong relay. I thought we have the sky-blue main relay!!!



Under this picture it says : If your starter cranks and if the engine does not start, check the Master Relay, replace it and find out what makes it blown!

So after read this note, i was already knew it will not solve the problem with the Relay, but i replaced it anyway.

[SaNGRia]

What i found out is one of the cable goes all the way to the clutch switch from DME . It is most likely attached on the right side of the Ecu Connector . On the auto transmissions the pin 23 is empty. And some people who swapped their transmission to manual, they simply adding a cable to pin 23 and fooling the DME to start the car! But i am not sure which one is the clutch switch cable on my car.

So if this is the case, my clutch sensor seems doesn't respond when the car having this issue. Then it is obvious that ECU does not/can not activate the power on this clutch line.

CAS is the receiver. But the weird part is the sensor is read by CAS not thro DME on ISTA or DIS v57! So that made me think that CAS is the one which gives the power to the clutch sensor cable!! But it is NOT.

Simply ECU turns on this power and if there is a power on this line, CAS can read the status of this sensor!!!! But if your sensor is really bad so it won't read anyway!

[SaNGRia]

Here is one hard work that i am done! If this is not a legal information please let me know so i can delete it! I am not sure which information is legal or not. So i am just trying my own to find out my own problem!



ECU Connector / 6MT ONLY

Pin Assignments at X60101 , Connection Notes :

Pin 2 : Start Signal (Type E), A149a Car Access System

Pin 18 : Clutch Switch (Type E) , Clutch Switch Module



Pin Assignments at X60102 , Connection Notes :

Pin 1 : Wake up Signal. Terminal 15 (Type E) , Connector X10547
Pin 2 : EWS enable for engine electronics (Type E) , Connector X10134


Pin Assignments at X60105 , Connection Notes :

Pin 13 : Activation, DME Relay (Type A) , Junction Box





CAS Pin Assignments , Connection Notes

Pin 21: Terminal 30 (Type E) , Fuse F51
Pin 22 : Signal, starter terminal 50 (Type A) , Starter
Pin 28 : Signal, Engine Start (Type A) , DME Control Unit I/master
Pin 34 : Terminal 30 (Type E) , Fuse 4
Pin 41 : MT (Manual Transmission) Signal, start lock switch (Type E) , Clutch Switch Module

E: Input
A: Output

[redpriest]

Man, Sangria, you're a hero for persevering through this.

[SaNGRia]

What i am trying to find out is, When i check this pin assignments , Clutch Switch pins on the DME and CAS are Type E meaning Input. Where is the Output of this sensor?

Clutch switch test before you buy one! (Do not forget to turn the ignition on)



1 : Ground
2 : DME Connection (Goes to pin 18)
3 : 12 Volt (At brake light switch) - I don't know which module/box gives this power yet!
4 : Signal occurs when you depressed the clutch (goes to CAS)

[SaNGRia]

I am not 100% sure but i think i found the problem. I got the Salmon Red Relay today! I replaced it. Also i removed the secondary ECU cable and checked out all the little cables which is attached to the slots and then i put everything back and turn on the ignition. Before i start the car first thing connected the cable to see the the clutch switch status. It was not WORKING! I pressed it, nope no signal at all! I am like Ok, it is time to remove foot cover underneath the steering wheel to check this sensor!

While the OBD cable still reading the status of this switch, I removed it. And play with the sensor cables, and tried again, it start working! And then i removed the sensor and cleaned it, replaced it. Went date night stop several places didn't get any issue so far. So tomorrow i will get the clutch sensor Just In Case! If the problem occurs again, i will immediately put the new sensor and see the results!

If this is a sensor problem, i am BLESSED so i can finally start my projects on this car. I just hope it is!

[SaNGRia]

Update : I went to dealer and purchased the sensor. Went out, car didn't start right in front of the service I reach the sensor cables and shaked them, car start immediately. Came home replaced the sensor. Watching the status!

[InnerBlueSkies]

]Awesome News!

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by SaNGRia

Update : I went to dealer and purchased the sensor. Went out, car didn't start right in front of the service I reach the sensor cables and shaked them, car start immediately. Came home replaced the sensor. Watching the status!

I was re/reading your OP #1 and when I got this right your problem is dating from 8 months ago...
Well in this case I need to say that I really admire your patience and knowledge , because your problem actually really s@cks !
Good luck in digging after the bitching problem and I really hope you can find the fix ones and for all !

[SaNGRia]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I was re/reading your OP #1 and when I got this right your problem is dating from 8 months ago...
Well in this case I need to say that I really admire your patience and knowledge , because your problem actually really s@cks !
Good luck in digging after the bitching problem and I really hope you can find the fix ones and for all !

This is one of the problem no one wants to experience in their entire life since there is no error code involved!

If the problem is simply a clutch switch sensor, i will be the happiest M owner in the earth Overall i learnt a lot. At least the people who experience intermittent starting problem will know that there is an amazing tool that they can check the live status of every item in our system before they replacing the starter, alternator, Cas module or many more different items.

I read more than 15 people who just went blind and just replaced the parts hoping to fix their starting problem and unfortunately they just failed! (Ex: Battery, Starter, Cas, EWS, Keys, Battery Cables, Earth Cables, Power Module, Junction Box, Fuses, Relays, Alternator, IBS cable)

I also read one of the guy gave up and traded his car after spending $3k to solve the problem. The sad part was dealer told him to replace the parts!!!!!! So i lost my faith to dealer at this point! (I never had anyway )

And than i decided to research all the details. I hope it helps to lovely bimmer community

[doogee]

So is your issue solved 100%?

[SaNGRia]

Originally Posted by doogee

So is your issue solved 100%?

I did not experience yet, hoping it is fixed so far. I drove like 2 times and stop at several places. So TGIF, i will drive this weekend and i will watch the status. If it doesn't replicate at this weekend, i can say 99,99999% fixed, because it always had at least one no start situation after driven hard.

I will let everyone know!

[SaNGRia]

Update : Since the Clutch switch sensor is replaced, Thank the Lord car did not fail to start yet. But i am pretty confident that problem is the sensor. I drove about 6 times since the sensor is replaced and stop more than 10 places, and also drove extremely hard at this weekend. Car starts like a charm. Now ready to move on and make some fun projects. And i am willing to keep this car for lifetime in my inventory!

[tony093]

it looks like you finally got it.....keep us posted.

[M3Bimmer77]

Oh man and I was soooo proud of myself bc I got the trifecta and fixed it by myself. Now this is like a Ph in electronics!!!! Congrats. You learnt a lot. BTW is learned. But you know what with all that knowledge water ever you learnt is more important than anything. To tell you the truth sometimes I got confused, list and irritated at so much info in one sentence. Definitely it will help many. Thanks for sharing all your journey.

[SaNGRia]

Originally Posted by M3Bimmer77

Oh man and I was soooo proud of myself bc I got the trifecta and fixed it by myself. Now thus s like a Ph in electronics!!!! Congrats. You learnt a lot. BTW is learned. But you know what with all that knowledge water ever you learnt is more important than anything. To tell you the truth sometimes I got confused, list and irritated at so much info in one sentence. Definitely it will help many. Thanks for sharing all your journey.

Thank you so much. All i wanted it, to help people free of charge. There is still really big heart people out who really helped me a lot to come this point.

Pay forward but not to dealer