E93 M3 Random starting problem. (100% SOLVED)

[SaNGRia]

So ok I will check it out today. Did you remove this cable from inside or outside, i just want to know how you remove it. And tell me what was your problem and how was your experience? And how did you find out? i will take a picture of my tray and show it to you as well!

Originally Posted by Sered

See the black terminal/box at the bottom that the red wire runs to? That's where mine corroded. The red wire running to it is routed different ways depending on the year, etc. Mine was/is routed from the left side of the tray going under it.

That is a clean tray, if that is yours, then you're not having any kind of leak issue. But no, you don't see any warning lights or anything if this particular cable has issues; the technician is wrong. This cable goes on a completely separate circuit to the starter. The only thing that happens when it is messed up is you can hear the starter click and it won't turn over. There's no engine warning light because this runs on a separate circuit.

[SaNGRia]

Here is another helpful information about BST, i do not have any of these codes on my modules but what i noticed on my car was i dropped the car to the Tint World when i first purchased it to clear wrap the front hood, bumpers and headlights. When i picked up the car i noticed that they didn't do a good job on my bumper so i dropped my car to the different Tint world to redo the job. And the worker called me during the process and said your driver side of the bumper was painted before, and when we were removing the tint paint came off what do you want us to do? I thought they messed up at the beginning and i drove there and checked it, it was really spray painted from the corner where the air goes in! So it shows previous owner probably hit to parking bricks. It might effected BST terminal, but i don't have any code. And this guy says your car still starts even the BST is blown!

[SaNGRia]

Here is the picture of my tray and B+ cable :









Attachment 1234948

[SaNGRia]

After removing the battery and checking all the cables yesterday, i reconnected after an hour and car started immediately. So during that time ECU must be reseted too. So today i went to gas station and then went to a doctor appointment. Came back to parking lot after about hour, hour and half. Here is the video :

While this problem is irritating and ruining my pleasure driving time with this beautiful v8 engine, i did some test drives with porsche this weekend. I really didn't feel the comfort and quality of the m3 that i am currently driving. And v6 engine did not give me too much pleasure either. It was fast and way lower than m3. But unfortunately if i can't fix this problem i will say good-bye to my dream car m3 with the very messed up experience!

[SaNGRia]

There is a high possibility that engine ground cable which goes Engine to Chassis corropted. There is many people had the same exact symptom that i have and fixed with the Earth cable replacement (http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...s-Ground-Cable). I checked ISTA/P to find this specific cable which goes Engine to Chassis and i couldn't find it. I found like 10-12 different ground locations, but didn't find this ground cable location. Does anyone know where is this cable located?


I did make a earth cable using a red battery wire and i will connect engine to chassis at the next time my car fails start

[SaNGRia]

Update : I was in vacation for 5 days in Rehoboth. Came back today. We decided to go date night with my wife. Sat on the car, press the start button. Didn't start! Open the hood, connected the cable from chassis to engine that i made. Second try made a week crank noise in the starter like waking up the starter motor and 3rd try boom started. Stopped 3 places and had no issue to start at all! Note:I did not connect my battery charger at this time. and i did not measure the voltage either but i am 99% sure is almost full.

[Peertwelve]

So the working theory is intermittent grounding issue? I don't have the chops to help out but I would recommend removing any non OEM electrified component to see if the problem persists. I had all kinds of crazy electrical gremlins after I installed a set of aftermarket angel eyes.. The car seemed to get power surges, the tachometer would flutter, the interior lights would dim, etc. I hope you sole this one soon! Good luck!

[SaNGRia]

Originally Posted by Peertwelve

So the working theory is intermittent grounding issue? I don't have the chops to help out but I would recommend removing any non OEM electrified component to see if the problem persists. I had all kinds of crazy electrical gremlins after I installed a set of aftermarket angel eyes.. The car seemed to get power surges, the tachometer would flutter, the interior lights would dim, etc. I hope you sole this one soon! Good luck!

Thank you for help. I have Lux Angel eyes and also super bright led license plate lights. Other than that nothing changed. If the issue was from this after market lights, wouldn't i get low voltage or some kind of voltage problem ? Or maybe i can't think different?

[Peertwelve]

Originally Posted by SaNGRia

Thank you for help. I have Lux Angel eyes and also super bright led license plate lights with the adapter. Other than that nothing changed. If the issue was from this after market lights, wouldn't i get low voltage or some kind of voltage problem ? Or maybe i can't think different?

I don't know much about this. But in my situation, the battery and alternator were fine, checked by the dealer. The second I removed the aftermarket bulbs, all of the gremlins disappeared. Your issue sounds like a grounding problem. But with a complex issue, it is sometimes helpful to reduce the number of variables... I can imagine how frustrating this is for you. Good luck!

[M3GarageKing]

i had the same issue for a while. i replaced my battery and thought it will solve the problem but it turn out to be my my starter, so i got it replace.

[SaNGRia]

Originally Posted by M3GarageKing

i had the same issue for a while. i replaced my battery and thought it will solve the problem but it turn out to be my my starter, so i got it replace.

How many miles was on it when the issue occurred? And how they pin pointed that the problem was starter? And thank you for the reply!

[M3GarageKing]

It happen 2 months ago while i am at 58,000 miles.

I did't have any codes.
It will start after a few try, i can hear the click sound just like on your video.
I change out my 7 years old OEM batter & still having the same issus. The two Independent i been to said it was the starter.

After replacing the starter the problem went away..

[SaNGRia]

Originally Posted by M3GarageKing

i had the same issue for a while. i replaced my battery and thought it will solve the problem but it turn out to be my my starter, so i got it replace.

Originally Posted by M3GarageKing

It happen 2 months ago while i am at 58,000 miles.

I did't have any codes.
It will start after a few try, i can hear the click sound just like on your video.
I change out my 7 years old OEM batter & still having the same issus. The two Independent i been to said it was the starter.

After replacing the starter the problem went away..

You can be hero to save my m3 if you were exactly experiencing the same issue... Did you replace by yourself? So you didn't pin point it but it worked for you. What i am afraid of is what if the problem is persists after replacing the starter That was my whole point to post here! But i really appreciate your help. I think i will DIY!

[flynscot]

Trust me I do not claim to be an expert at all, but it seems from reading your posts that you are down to a process of elimination. I also believe it to be your starter that is the issue but that is just from reading and what little troubleshooting knowledge I have. If you don't want to spend the money to replace the starter as you have stated you do not know it to be the exact problem then why not remove it from the car and bench test it a few dozen times. I haven't done anything like that in about 20 years, but an electric motor is an electric motor, so it shouldn't be that difficult. if you can't replicate the issue with the starter on the bench at least you have eliminated it as the problem.
Just a thought...

[M3GarageKing]

Originally Posted by flynscot

Trust me I do not claim to be an expert at all, but it seems from reading your posts that you are down to a process of elimination. I also believe it to be your starter that is the issue but that is just from reading and what little troubleshooting knowledge I have. If you don't want to spend the money to replace the starter as you have stated you do not know it to be the exact problem then why not remove it from the car and bench test it a few dozen times. I haven't done anything like that in about 20 years, but an electric motor is an electric motor, so it shouldn't be that difficult. if you can't replicate the issue with the starter on the bench at least you have eliminated it as the problem.
Just a thought...

Once i took out my bad starter i was able to bench test it. The motor is spinning but when it is under load of our V8 engine the starter motor just won't move.

[flynscot]

Originally Posted by M3GarageKing

Once i took out my bad starter i was able to bench test it. The motor is spinning but when it is under load of our V8 engine the starter motor just won't move.

Might eliminate the solenoid as an engagement issue if not the starter as you said. Either way at this point it is time to start changing something, or disconnecting something (aftermarket lights like one of the others said). The only other thing I can think of is to measure the amperage (not voltage) that the starter is drawing on the start sequence, but unless you already know what it is supposed to be it may not help.

[Atomicteal_M3]

My friend has the same issue with his 2008 M3. He drives it only once or twice a week. It seems to go away when the car is frequently active.

[SaNGRia]

Originally Posted by BLKLYZ

My friend has the same issue with his 2008 M3. He drives it only once or twice a week. It seems to go away when the car is frequently active.

I think BMW doesn't want us to drive rarely

[Atomicteal_M3]

Originally Posted by SaNGRia

I think BMW doesn't want us to drive rarely

My thoughts exactly. It seems that even my M3 acts weird when it sits for over a week or so, but when I drive it frequently, it runs like a champ! Its a conspiracy!!!

[SaNGRia]

Originally Posted by flynscot

Might eliminate the solenoid as an engagement issue if not the starter as you said. Either way at this point it is time to start changing something, or disconnecting something (aftermarket lights like one of the others said). The only other thing I can think of is to measure the amperage (not voltage) that the starter is drawing on the start sequence, but unless you already know what it is supposed to be it may not help.

instead of removing the license plate led lights and lux angel eyes, i will cancel the DRL from idrive and turn off the welcome lights also turn the light switch off position. So it must solve this possible voltage problem if it comes from after market bulbs doesn't it?

[SaNGRia]

OK. I want to know something,

Is this the clicking noise from solenoid that tries to engage with the flywheel or something different?

Pressing the clutch to start the car :

I was trying to troubleshoot the car by turning off the light switch and turning off the DRL from idrive not to use any after market led at the beginning of starting process, i found out that the Lux Angel eyes are flickering when the DRL and switch off position. So i recorded it. I wasn't pressing the clutch during this process but car makes the same noise like i was pressing the clutch on this video. So my question is ,

is solenoid working even you don't press the clutch for engaging process? Or the click that i hear is different than what i think?

Here is the Angel eye flickering video without pressing the clutch :

I always thought this is the click noise that comes from solenoid. If this is not the click noise than %99 my starter the issue. If this is the solenoid than there is a still possibility for a voltage drop or low amp.

BTW I am buying a Valeo Remanufactured Starter from AutoZone next week anyway. So we will see what is the real problem after that replacement!

[Beemdog]

Originally Posted by SaNGRia

instead of removing the license plate led lights and lux angel eyes, i will cancel the DRL from idrive and turn off the welcome lights also turn the light switch off position. So it must solve this possible voltage problem if it comes from after market bulbs doesn't it?

No, your angel eyes are connected to the CAN bus whether they are off or not. If noise and or glitches on the CAN bus are your problem (and I don't know that it is), you would have to disconnect aftermarket accessories completely. But I have not heard of Lux having this problem, at least the newer models. Pretty simple to disconnect the electrical connection to the angel eye and leave the bulb part in place, though.