I want to love the E90 M3 but...

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by bkfastwagon

Having said that, my e92 ZCP definitely has more steering feel than my non-ZCP e90.

What do you attribute this to? Can't imagine the 10mm difference in height is all that noticeable in terms of steering feel.

[tigermack]

I know what you mean, I autocross a BRZ. The turn-in isn't there, obviously. The car, however, turns a lot better on M mode, IMO, for aggressive driving.

[GORDON.M3]

Originally Posted by serranot

It is somewhat of a personal thing but I disagree. I’ve owned a Boxster and my E90 is very close to it.

I believe it.

My friend has a 2018 GT3 and says he loves his E90 M3 more overall.

[SYT_Shadow]

I don't think anyone should 'want' to love a car. If you drive one and don't love it, don't buy it.
People's desires and expectations vary. Although some feel like the M3 is the answer to every question -and most of the time I agree-, if you don't like it don't worry, get something else

[serranot]

Originally Posted by GORDON.M3

I believe it.

My friend has a 2018 GT3 and says he loves his E90 M3 more overall.

I mean the M3 vs a Boxster or S2000 or MX-5 is apples to oranges. The Boxster is a light little go cart in comparison. Yet in the 25ish cars I've owned, it feels amazing for what it is--a small comfortable sedan.

I test drove an S4 and 911 before I settled on the M3. Both were interesting and I would have been happy to own either. But the M3 just does a lot of things well, and not many poorly. I have only owned one car longer. Paradoxically, it was an Isuzu Trooper. Polar opposite in handling and power. But I liked it for what it was.

[ChiBimmer]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I don't think anyone should 'want' to love a car. If you drive one and don't love it, don't buy it.
People's desires and expectations vary. Although some feel like the M3 is the answer to every question -and most of the time I agree-, if you don't like it don't worry, get something else

I hear you. I'm very much in like with the E90. I'm not sure there's a better car with four seats my budget. I got a lot of suggestions to try m-mode for steering. I'll make sure to do that on the next test drive.

[cannga]

Originally Posted by ChiBimmer

I hear you. I'm very much in like with the E90. I'm not sure there's a better car with four seats my budget. I got a lot of suggestions to try m-mode for steering. I'll make sure to do that on the next test drive.

AFAIK, the M mode for steering merely varies the assist with speed (Normal: more assist at low speed, Sport: less assist at all speed). It changes effort, but not response to your steering input.

IMHO, if you really want to wake the car up as far as steering, once/if you buy the car, have a BMW shop change alignment settings to increase negative camber esp front (to reduce the stock car's excessive understeer) AND consider zero toe-in (Edit/clarification: this means toe value = 0, wheels pointing straight ahead, neither toe in, nor toe out) in front for better turn-in response, etc. I think you will love the car much more with this alignment setting.

[tigermack]

Originally Posted by cannga

AND consider zero toe-in in front for better turn-in response, etc.

You mean toe-OUT the front?

[cannga]

Originally Posted by tigermack

You mean toe-OUT the front?

Sorry for the confusion. I meant toe value = 0 (wheels point straight ahead, neither toe in nor toe out).

Toe out could be twitchy. I've never tried it.

[tigermack]

Originally Posted by cannga

Sorry for the confusion. I meant toe value = 0 (wheels point straight ahead, neither toe in nor toe out).

Toe out could be twitchy. I've never tried it.

Toe out the front on a BMW is pretty common, I prefer 0, though.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by tigermack

Toe out the front on a BMW is pretty common, I prefer 0, though.

Plenty nice alignment info right here: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367003

[cannga]

Originally Posted by tigermack

Toe out the front on a BMW is pretty common, I prefer 0, though.

Good to know.

Also for OP, personally I actually prefer the Normal mode for steering. Sport is a touch too heavy for my taste. Possibly/partly because the car I've driven for a long time (the Turbo) has steering weight that is more similar to the BMW's normal mode. The point is it's the alignment change, not Normal vs Sport steering mode, that improves this car's steering response.

[wyatth]

Agreed, alignment is what you’ll need to dial in. M Mode changes weight but nothing mechanical or with the car’s dynamics.

[cannga]

Originally Posted by wyatth

Agreed, alignment is what you’ll need to dial in. M Mode changes weight but nothing mechanical or with the car’s dynamics.

Yep - alignment with more "aggressive" setting is the key for fun with the M3. I wish that the Sport setting for steering would change the road feel/feedback of the M3 for example, but no such luck or magic .

For the fun of discussion, what's interesting is that because the Sport setting INCREASES steering effort (ie the car feels like it wants to go straight and resists steering input), for me anyway the Sport setting actually makes the car feel LESS "sporty." Or maybe less playful (on mountain roads for example) is another way of describing this.

I've gone back and forth many times and always seem to prefer the Normal setting. No right or wrong - strictly personal preference.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by ChiBimmer

Seriously I need a four seat sports cars to go along with my Honda. I've driven 5 E9x and they check so many boxes. I don't need to tell you—the S65 with it power, revs and sound. They're fast, comfortable and seat 5 in the case of the sedan. They corner great. They're cheap now. And yet every time I drive one I come away thinking the steering is a little numb. Not numb like a Mustang but lacking that initial turn in that I get from, say, my S2000, BRZ, Z4M or lancer Evo. The last I choose to include here to show a sedan is capable of good steering feel. The E9x has a quicker rack (which I like) than the E46 but the older car seems more eager to turn. The size of the car probably has something to do with it but at 5/10 I prefer the steering in my wife's Cayenne. I drove my dad's F-Type after my last E90 test drive. The F-Type is about the same weight and i think it's a little numb but I preferred its steering to the E90. I've driven recently a Camaro SS and an SS 1LE and I thought the steering feel was great in those—I knew those things would be fast but I didn't expect them to feel so good. (Shifter feel was great too. Chevy beat every expectation I had.)

I know exactly what you're talking about. Turn-in almost makes it feel like an electric steering box, and there isn't a ton of feel in it at any point.

Originally Posted by GORDON.M3

I believe it.

My friend has a 2018 GT3 and says he loves his E90 M3 more overall.

Not sure what to make of that. I regularly ask myself which car I'd keep if I could only have one, and I almost always prefer my 20-year-old 996 for overall driving feel and enjoyment. I can't imagine preferring any E9x M3 over a late model GT3--they're not even in the same league.