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      05-21-2018, 01:54 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Rambler View Post
SYT, have you considered the Alfa QV if something outside of an M3? I have been considering one myself despite the lack of any long term history. Seems that many of the early computer glitches have been worked out, many of which were due to user error and understanding some of the car's oddities.
At the end of the day, no one can take Alfa's durability seriously.
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      05-21-2018, 02:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Rambler View Post
SYT, have you considered the Alfa QV if something outside of an M3? I have been considering one myself despite the lack of any long term history. Seems that many of the early computer glitches have been worked out, many of which were due to user error and understanding some of the car's oddities.
Not really. I know Alfa from growing up in Europe and would never chance it. I really like what they did except for the 8sp ZF tranny but would not be able to get over the 'it's an Alfa'.
I don't have a special place in my heart for the F8X M but I'd still get one over its contemporary competitors
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      05-21-2018, 02:47 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
What other option would you prefer? Here are the conditions:
-No trailer allowed in Greenwich CT
-Must drive to tracks that are up to 10h away
-Must be street legal

These were on my list of considerations when shopping a little over a year ago. Overall the C7 Corvette has proven 100% capable of handling track usage in factory/stock form without sacrificing anything on the street. I don't have any regrets.

I'm pretty close to perfecting my consumable costs, but they're still higher than the M3's were -- the trade-off has been vastly better performance, so I guess you gotta pay to play. The strikes against the C7 Corvette for track usage that I have found after a year of ownership are:

Limited cargo capacity
Can easily swallow my huge container of track day stuff, even for a long trip, but no way in hell can you transport a second set of wheels/tires. Not an issue if you have a garage to swap in advance, I guess.

Tire & brake costs
Limited choice in tires for the OEM wheels. Front brake pads are pricey and no direct-fit options from Pagid or PFC until at least 2019.

Image/association
There's a stereotype for the car and this might be part of the reason some companies have simply chosen not to even bother offering parts for it. Some people don't take it seriously at the track or even ask why I would "abuse" it by tracking it, despite the car's long history of racing and sporting credentials.
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Last edited by dparm; 05-21-2018 at 03:05 PM.
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      05-21-2018, 03:51 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Image/association
There's a stereotype for the car ...
C'mon, we're BMW drivers.

I was surprised that my Z06s haven't come with gold chains and scissors to clip the top two buttons on all the new owner's shirts.
I was surprised to find that Porsche's didn't come with a book called "Intro To Being Better Than Others"
Lotus Cars dont come with a "Guide To Justifying Your Odd Decisions"
Mustangs? "50 Ways To Exit An Event"
Camaros? The list is toooooo long.

I was surprised that BMW's didn't come with cheap leather plugs for the hole that the turn signal used to protrude from.

The only car that doesnt suffer stereotypes is probably the Merc Black Series. Seriously, who owns those cars?
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      05-21-2018, 04:13 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Visceral View Post
C'mon, we're BMW drivers.

I was surprised that my Z06s haven't come with gold chains and scissors to clip the top two buttons on all the new owner's shirts.
I was surprised to find that Porsche's didn't come with a book called "Intro To Being Better Than Others"
Lotus Cars dont come with a "Guide To Justifying Your Odd Decisions"
Mustangs? "50 Ways To Exit An Event"
Camaros? The list is toooooo long.

I was surprised that BMW's didn't come with cheap leather plugs for the hole that the turn signal used to protrude from.

The only car that doesnt suffer stereotypes is probably the Merc Black Series. Seriously, who owns those cars?


Ha, your point is well-taken.

I guess what I was saying is that the C7 Corvette doesn't seem to be synonymous with HPDEs to the extent that the M3, 911, etc. are, and that means some of the big aftermarket companies don't even bother (or it's a half-assed offering). The C5 & C6 Z06 have a healthy range of parts available.
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      05-21-2018, 04:23 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Ha, your point is well-taken.

I guess what I was saying is that the C7 Corvette doesn't seem to be synonymous with HPDEs to the extent that the M3, 911, etc. are, and that means some of the big aftermarket companies don't even bother (or it's a half-assed offering). The C5 & C6 Z06 have a healthy range of parts available.
Aren't Katech and LG still in the game?
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      05-21-2018, 04:49 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Not really. I know Alfa from growing up in Europe and would never chance it. I really like what they did except for the 8sp ZF tranny but would not be able to get over the 'it's an Alfa'.
I don't have a special place in my heart for the F8X M but I'd still get one over its contemporary competitors
I hear you and completely ruled it out myself as well. But I decided to give it another chance and test drove one this week back to back with an F80 M3 comp pack. The ZF which I initially scoffed at is actually tuned beautifully. It's definitely not tuned like the ZF used in other cars. And the steering is outstanding. A lot of engineering went into this car and it wasn't just Ferrari derived, it was built from the ground up by the Ferrari engineers. What really shines about this car is that the chassis doesn't start with a lesser model and then gets beefed up for the QV. It's the other way around in fact and the lower models are tuned down versions of the QV. The complete opposite of the 3 series and M3.

I love the M3 too though - Where the dct might have an edge over the ZF depending on your preferences, the steering was much better in the QV imo. Both cars are pretty great though and it's still a toss up for me if I don't end up back in an E9x! I just felt that the QV was more exiting to drive but the M would be the safer choice.
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      05-21-2018, 05:38 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Visceral View Post
Aren't Katech and LG still in the game?
Yep, they are. But when companies like PFC offer NOTHING for a platform that's been out since 2014...
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      05-22-2018, 08:35 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Rambler View Post
I hear you and completely ruled it out myself as well. But I decided to give it another chance and test drove one this week back to back with an F80 M3 comp pack. The ZF which I initially scoffed at is actually tuned beautifully. It's definitely not tuned like the ZF used in other cars. And the steering is outstanding. A lot of engineering went into this car and it wasn't just Ferrari derived, it was built from the ground up by the Ferrari engineers. What really shines about this car is that the chassis doesn't start with a lesser model and then gets beefed up for the QV. It's the other way around in fact and the lower models are tuned down versions of the QV. The complete opposite of the 3 series and M3.

I love the M3 too though - Where the dct might have an edge over the ZF depending on your preferences, the steering was much better in the QV imo. Both cars are pretty great though and it's still a toss up for me if I don't end up back in an E9x! I just felt that the QV was more exiting to drive but the M would be the safer choice.
I'm sure the ZF can be tuned properly, but does it hold up to serious track use?
Someone with the X5M said they could overheat it in a single mountain run type event... does not bode well.

The chief engineer of the GV is the same guy as the Speciale if I remember correctly, so that's awesome, but I can't believe they would make something that holds up to heavy track use.

As it is I still love the E9X platform and prefer it to everything I've driven.
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      05-22-2018, 08:35 AM   #32
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Yep, they are. But when companies like PFC offer NOTHING for a platform that's been out since 2014...
That's a real problem. No PFC no party (for me)
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      05-22-2018, 10:33 AM   #33
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if they got 20k out of MPSS they definitely were NOT driving hard.
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      05-22-2018, 05:48 PM   #34
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That's a real problem. No PFC no party (for me)

Porterfield, Ferodo, Hawk, Raybestos, G-LOC, and others have a wide array of choices, fortunately. I've been quite satisfied with the performance and durability of the DTC-60s. Essex has an awesome AP upgrade kit as well, should I ever decide I need more.

PFC said they will be releasing pads for the Chevy-specific Brembo calipers early next year. Apparently there is a huge amount of variation in pads despite the calipers all being the same....but my two cents is that PFC is just being lazy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I'm sure the ZF can be tuned properly, but does it hold up to serious track use?

Good question. I wonder how much of it comes down to the cooling each manufacturer implements and the aggressiveness of the programming. I know the X5M is an M car, but I doubt it has the heavy-duty cooling that the M5 has, for example. They know people buy those things for stoplight drag races, not track days, so they are probably not testing for 30 minutes of continuous WOT use with constant up/downshifting.

As I get older and own more cars, it's becoming clearer to me that a lot of manufacturers are completely full of shit when it comes to engineering vehicles to withstand track use. Few manufacturers even talk about how they test their cars for that -- all of the "track-ready performance" and other bits that look like they came from a race car end up being a marketing exercise when it overheats in the first 10 minutes. The mainstream auto journalists are no help there either.
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Last edited by dparm; 05-22-2018 at 05:54 PM.
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      05-22-2018, 06:58 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Porterfield, Ferodo, Hawk, Raybestos, G-LOC, and others have a wide array of choices, fortunately. I've been quite satisfied with the performance and durability of the DTC-60s. Essex has an awesome AP upgrade kit as well, should I ever decide I need more.

PFC said they will be releasing pads for the Chevy-specific Brembo calipers early next year. Apparently there is a huge amount of variation in pads despite the calipers all being the same....but my two cents is that PFC is just being lazy.






Good question. I wonder how much of it comes down to the cooling each manufacturer implements and the aggressiveness of the programming. I know the X5M is an M car, but I doubt it has the heavy-duty cooling that the M5 has, for example. They know people buy those things for stoplight drag races, not track days, so they are probably not testing for 30 minutes of continuous WOT use with constant up/downshifting.

As I get older and own more cars, it's becoming clearer to me that a lot of manufacturers are completely full of shit when it comes to engineering vehicles to withstand track use. Few manufacturers even talk about how they test their cars for that -- all of the "track-ready performance" and other bits that look like they came from a race car end up being a marketing exercise when it overheats in the first 10 minutes. The mainstream auto journalists are no help there either.
I am completely aligned
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      05-22-2018, 08:15 PM   #36
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i'm having a hard time believing that a press gt350 isn't driven like a rented mule.
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      05-22-2018, 08:39 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
What other option would you prefer? Here are the conditions:
-No trailer allowed in Greenwich CT
-Must drive to tracks that are up to 10h away
-Must be street legal

These were on my list of considerations when shopping a little over a year ago. Overall the C7 Corvette has proven 100% capable of handling track usage in factory/stock form without sacrificing anything on the street. I don't have any regrets.

I'm pretty close to perfecting my consumable costs, but they're still higher than the M3's were -- the trade-off has been vastly better performance, so I guess you gotta pay to play. The strikes against the C7 Corvette for track usage that I have found after a year of ownership are:

Limited cargo capacity
Can easily swallow my huge container of track day stuff, even for a long trip, but no way in hell can you transport a second set of wheels/tires. Not an issue if you have a garage to swap in advance, I guess.

Tire & brake costs
Limited choice in tires for the OEM wheels. Front brake pads are pricey and no direct-fit options from Pagid or PFC until at least 2019.

Image/association
There's a stereotype for the car and this might be part of the reason some companies have simply chosen not to even bother offering parts for it. Some people don't take it seriously at the track or even ask why I would "abuse" it by tracking it, despite the car's long history of racing and sporting credentials.
Speaking of association, ever see this pic?
Made me laugh because it's basically what my dad wears. He's got a full head of white hair and he has been talking about corvettes lately. Lol
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      05-23-2018, 08:29 AM   #38
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Speaking of association, ever see this pic?
Made me laugh because it's basically what my dad wears. He's got a full head of white hair and he has been talking about corvettes lately. Lol
Just do a Google image search for "Corvette owner starter pack" and your suspicions will be confirmed.
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      05-27-2018, 05:36 PM   #39
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it seems like newer cars are burning more oil than "usual"? noticed it a lot in the genesis community. 3.8 v6 and anything with GDI eat oil for sure as well. My pop's 2015 Azera is 3.3 GDi and hes burning about a qt a month
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      05-27-2018, 06:24 PM   #40
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I am also reminded of the countless threads of M3s burning oil as well. The S65 has an appetite for 10-60 as well. Both my E92s that I have owned go through a liter every 2000 miles easily. BMW says that 1 liter every 750 miles is acceptable for the S65.

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      05-28-2018, 08:28 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visceral View Post
C'mon, we're BMW drivers.

I was surprised that my Z06s haven't come with gold chains and scissors to clip the top two buttons on all the new owner's shirts.
I was surprised to find that Porsche's didn't come with a book called "Intro To Being Better Than Others"
Lotus Cars dont come with a "Guide To Justifying Your Odd Decisions"
Mustangs? "50 Ways To Exit An Event"
Camaros? The list is toooooo long.

I was surprised that BMW's didn't come with cheap leather plugs for the hole that the turn signal used to protrude from.

The only car that doesnt suffer stereotypes is probably the Merc Black Series. Seriously, who owns those cars?
Lmao your list. Regarding the Black Series, right here!
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      05-28-2018, 11:01 AM   #42
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I wish oil consumption was the only problem the S65 had....
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      05-28-2018, 03:09 PM   #43
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There has also been quite a few engines lost with the GT350.


https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=104010

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      05-29-2018, 01:35 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
The mainstream auto journalists are no help there either.
Behind the scenes videos show they usually only do a few hot laps at a time to drive around weaknesses (usually brake pads). The Randy Pobst feature said he often only has a couple laps to familiarize and try different settings before having to set his timed lap.

All marketing. Unless you buy a factory race car like a gt4 car, cup car, etc
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