BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
European Auto Source (EAS)
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-20-2018, 06:32 AM   #45
pbonsalb
Major General
1475
Rep
5,520
Posts

Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

iTrader: (3)

You can’t buy a 991.2 GT3 for less than about $140k. You can buy an E9xM3 for as little as $20k.

I would hope the 991.2GT3 is the better car.

At a BMW driving event, I ran into a hedge fund manager who tracks a 991.1GT3. He said he spends about $2k per race weekend on tires alone. Way out of my league.
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow2554.50

      04-20-2018, 08:01 AM   #46
Longboarder
Major General
1405
Rep
5,682
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW i8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufgtrs2007 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
I love the e92M3 just bought another one but guys, don't compare to a 991 GT3 as it relates to track performance. One is a race car. The other is a fantastic all-around car.

I think this thread is comparing to a non GT 911.
Correct. I just picked up my 991.2 GT3, different animal than my E92 M3. Amazing car. E92 M3 is still a gem IMO, but I will most likely be parting out and selling it.
Wow congrats those aren't easy to get.
__________________
Daily: 2016 BMW i8
Airstrip: 2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S / GIAC FBO Meth 68mm turbos
Track: 2015 Porsche 991 GT3
Utility: 2012 BMW e92 M3 DCT
IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2018, 08:17 AM   #47
doogee
Major
doogee's Avatar
Canada
531
Rep
1,130
Posts

Drives: '08 M3, '97 328is
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ancaster, ON, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
So is the stock e92 10 seconds a lap faster than a 997.2 gt3 or have we backed off that now?
Absolutely not. Not a chance.

Put the same driver in both cars and the GT3 will always be faster than the M3. Way faster.

The 997 GT3 is almost 800 lbs lighter, more powerful, far superior brakes, has actual aero, bigger, better tires...the list goes on.
__________________

Last edited by doogee; 04-20-2018 at 08:23 AM.
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2018, 08:20 AM   #48
1MOREMOD
2018 track days - 0 ridge 1:52:24 pacific 1:33:30
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
6389
Rep
19,934
Posts

Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

Yes I know but gt3s overheat a lot apparently
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2018, 09:29 PM   #49
beats
Lieutenant
beats's Avatar
131
Rep
492
Posts

Drives: 2015 911 GTS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Yes I know but gt3s overheat a lot apparently
like the z07, but worse
Appreciate 0
      04-20-2018, 10:33 PM   #50
Longboarder
Major General
1405
Rep
5,682
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW i8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
So is the stock e92 10 seconds a lap faster than a 997.2 gt3 or have we backed off that now?
It is frankly disappointing to have you and Longboarder basically calling me a troll. I did not expect that.

Please return to my post and read what I said. I'm not going to quote myself, but without editing my previous post I'm quite certain I said my student's 997.2 GT3 overheated while running 10 seconds slower than my stock E92.

In that statement I fail to see 'A stock M3 is 10 seconds faster than a GT3'. Please quote my previous post and show me where I said that.

My statement stands. I'm certainly not backing off what I experienced in the car in person. I guess next time I need a pic of a SoloDL and the temp gauge in the GT3? Maybe a written statement from the owner?
I would not say anything of the sort about you. I always appreciate your viewpoints feedback. My post was to confirm 1moremod about GT3's overheating.
__________________
Daily: 2016 BMW i8
Airstrip: 2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S / GIAC FBO Meth 68mm turbos
Track: 2015 Porsche 991 GT3
Utility: 2012 BMW e92 M3 DCT
IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 2
SYT_Shadow2554.50
NoHedge41.50

      04-24-2018, 11:13 AM   #51
InspireSiR
First Lieutenant
96
Rep
347
Posts

Drives: 2013 BMW M3 E92
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by beats View Post
I had test driven lots of Porsches in the past, a Cayman R, 997 GTS, 991.1 4s, and a 981 Cayman S. Although I always preferred the Cayman to the 911 I never really felt the 'upgrade' was enough over my E92 M3 (in the end I had a tune, test pipes and MCS suspension).

I was in Germany last fall and rented a 991.2 GTS for a day from Porsche Drive in Stuttgart. We ended up spending the day in the Black Forest with it and I can tell you it was the most fun I have ever spent in a car off of the track. The car was a blast in all respects. Handling, power, refinement etc. Amazing.

My first day back from Germany I started looking at GTS's, and within a month bought a 991.1 GTS. I love this car! I think you need to spend a bit of time in these cars to truly appreciate them, and a 20 min test drive on city streets does nothing for getting a feel for it IMO.

Another thing to consider is stock tire pressures in the 911 at least seems extremely high for daily driving, something like 37,42?? Most people drop them to 32/35 for normal driving which really improves ride compliancy. This might have factored into the OP's feelings on harshness.

I think the E92 is an amazing car and great overall value/utility for the track and spirited driving. You can't go wrong either way.
Was there a big difference in power delivery, responsiveness and overall experience between the 991.1 GTS and 991.2 GTS? Did you prefer one over the other?
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2018, 12:27 PM   #52
Visceral
First Lieutenant
Visceral's Avatar
182
Rep
360
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 Sedan, 2014 991 TTS
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Oregon

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspireSiR View Post
Was there a big difference in power delivery, responsiveness and overall experience between the 991.1 GTS and 991.2 GTS? Did you prefer one over the other?
The 991.1 feels down on torque. It just needs to be rev'ed to feel fast on the street. After test-driving one extensively, I was ready to give up on ordering a 911 until my wife (bless her heart) convinced me to test drive the Turbo.

The 991.2 doesn't feel down on torque. It feels more like a NA V8. But, it preserves the fast response of NA and a very linear TQ curve and a nice exhaust note. It isnt as gratifying on the track (IMHO) as the NA 3.8, but it is more pleasant on the street.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2018, 12:35 PM   #53
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
2555
Rep
4,285
Posts

Drives: E90M, E92M, X5, Mini Cooper S
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Visceral View Post
The 991.1 feels down on torque. It just needs to be rev'ed to feel fast on the street. After test-driving one extensively, I was ready to give up on ordering a 911 until my wife (bless her heart) convinced me to test drive the Turbo.

The 991.2 doesn't feel down on torque. It feels more like a NA V8. But, it preserves the fast response of NA and a very linear TQ curve and a nice exhaust note. It isnt as gratifying on the track (IMHO) as the NA 3.8, but it is more pleasant on the street.
Sounds like a keeper!!

I can imagine your face, all serious, replying 'okay honey, but only because you want me to...'
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2018, 12:39 PM   #54
Visceral
First Lieutenant
Visceral's Avatar
182
Rep
360
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 Sedan, 2014 991 TTS
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Oregon

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Sounds like a keeper!!

I can imagine your face, all serious, replying 'okay honey, but only because you want me to...'
She's currently carrying far more points in the local STU AutoX trophy class than I am.

We met at the drag strip in the late 90's. I'm convinced you should only date ppl you meet doing something you love. Also, I'm luckier than most people to start with.
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow2554.50

      04-24-2018, 12:45 PM   #55
GeorgeA
Captain
GeorgeA's Avatar
United_States
262
Rep
858
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Okay that makes more sense if the gt3 is overheating for some reason than your car is faster. Much more reasonable.
You do know that the driver matters as well?

I have taken an ACR Viper on Streets of Willow and he was no newb either but I did outdrive him. It just depends on your skill level. I have seen V6 Camry's running similar lap times to 991 CS' at Streets.

I think his point was that the GT3 overheated while not even running at its full potential while our M3's don't while running at their full potential. Maybe a bad apple? Who knows
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow2554.50

      04-24-2018, 01:03 PM   #56
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
2555
Rep
4,285
Posts

Drives: E90M, E92M, X5, Mini Cooper S
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Visceral View Post
She's currently carrying far more points in the local STU AutoX trophy class than I am.

We met at the drag strip in the late 90's. I'm convinced you should only date ppl you meet doing something you love. Also, I'm luckier than most people to start with.
That is really awesome!!! Where can I find myself one of those...
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2018, 01:07 PM   #57
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
2555
Rep
4,285
Posts

Drives: E90M, E92M, X5, Mini Cooper S
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
You do know that the driver matters as well?

I have taken an ACR Viper on Streets of Willow and he was no newb either but I did outdrive him. It just depends on your skill level. I have seen V6 Camry's running similar lap times to 991 CS' at Streets.

I think his point was that the GT3 overheated while not even running at its full potential while our M3's don't while running at their full potential. Maybe a bad apple? Who knows
I left the topic alone but it seemed pretty obvious. Thanks for the assist

There was a Honda Fit at AER in Watkins Glen this weekend and while reviewing the videos I noticed it was a class 2 car. I thought for sure it would be a class 1 (slowest) car but it must have good drivers!
Appreciate 1
GeorgeA261.50

      04-24-2018, 01:13 PM   #58
GeorgeA
Captain
GeorgeA's Avatar
United_States
262
Rep
858
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I left the topic alone but it seemed pretty obvious. Thanks for the assist

There was a Honda Fit at AER in Watkins Glen this weekend and while reviewing the videos I noticed it was a class 2 car. I thought for sure it would be a class 1 (slowest) car but it must have good drivers!
Yup, when you're actually out there putting down laps it is clear to see how much of a difference the driver makes. A lot of people see "GT3" on the car and automatically think it's going to be the fastest thing on the track. Definitely not the case in real life applications.
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow2554.50

      04-24-2018, 02:53 PM   #59
1MOREMOD
2018 track days - 0 ridge 1:52:24 pacific 1:33:30
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
6389
Rep
19,934
Posts

Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
You do know that the driver matters as well?

I have taken an ACR Viper on Streets of Willow and he was no newb either but I did outdrive him. It just depends on your skill level. I have seen V6 Camry's running similar lap times to 991 CS' at Streets.

I think his point was that the GT3 overheated while not even running at its full potential while our M3's don't while running at their full potential. Maybe a bad apple? Who knows
Yes I am aware have passed a la ferrari on track as well as mclaren in my e46. Comparing a crappy driver in a fast car to a good one in a slower car has no bearing on the cars ability.
Appreciate 1
      04-24-2018, 07:06 PM   #60
beats
Lieutenant
beats's Avatar
131
Rep
492
Posts

Drives: 2015 911 GTS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspireSiR View Post
Was there a big difference in power delivery, responsiveness and overall experience between the 991.1 GTS and 991.2 GTS? Did you prefer one over the other?
Like was said earlier, the 991.2 will have more torque, but it's hard for me to give too much of a comparison given the time between. The 991.2 was also a cab, and a lot of the driving was in the mountains, so the torque would have been used a lot more than on flat roads.

I did love the 991.2, enough to buy a GTS when I got back, but my only complaint on it was the exhaust. Given that it was a cab, we drove with the top down as much as we could. I found it a little too drony by the end of the day, so much so that I was actually getting a bit of a headache. It might have been the underrun, not sure. Either way, it seemed to get a bit old (had it in sport more the whole time). With the 3.8 NA I don't think I could ever get sick of the sound. It's glorious, and I haven't had much a chance to rev it out yet.

I'm doing my first track day this Friday. I will report back. I suspect, much like my E92 M3 I will love it even more after a day at the track. I found the E92 was a great car to drive normally, but you only really appreciated it on the track, every time I came back from the day it was like it was a new car again (in terms of feeling for it). I'm sure the GTS will be the same. These cars are meant to be driven a lot harder than anyone can safely drive on the street. It makes it that much harder to really get a sense for a car in a test drive for that reason IMO.
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow2554.50

      04-25-2018, 06:32 AM   #61
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
2555
Rep
4,285
Posts

Drives: E90M, E92M, X5, Mini Cooper S
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by beats View Post
I did love the 991.2, enough to buy a GTS when I got back, but my only complaint on it was the exhaust. Given that it was a cab, we drove with the top down as much as we could. I found it a little too drony by the end of the day, so much so that I was actually getting a bit of a headache. It might have been the underrun, not sure. Either way, it seemed to get a bit old (had it in sport more the whole time). With the 3.8 NA I don't think I could ever get sick of the sound. It's glorious, and I haven't had much a chance to rev it out yet.
.
In the end, the 991.2 GTS is a turbo engine and they all, unequivocally, sound pretty lame.

I've driven the current C63 for several hundred miles and besides sounding 'really loud' it has zero quality to the sound.
I spent 250 miles driving a M4 GTS Sunday night and regardless of the full titanium exhaust, no resonators, overruns, burbles/pops and no fake sound being pumped into the cabin it is clear it sounds like crap. Love the car, but it still sounds like crap. I was also very surprised at the amount of drone in the cabin, it's incredibly loud when it's set to 'loud'
Ditto with the M2

People say 'car X has a turbo engine and it sounds great!'. They confuse loud with good. I'll probably be in the 991.2 GTS sometime this track season and am quite sure I'll get to the same conclusion.

If you've ever heard an E46M/997 GT3/E9XM/E60M winding to redline with a decent exhaust on it, all the pops and burbles in the world aren't going to do much for the turbo engines.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2018, 06:47 AM   #62
Montaver
First Lieutenant
Montaver's Avatar
344
Rep
386
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Here is an old vid of Chris Harris lapping the GT3, GTR and E92 M3.



Amazing that the GTR has been out 10 years. And man that GT3 sounds so good.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...-for-tea/37912
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2018, 07:53 PM   #63
beats
Lieutenant
beats's Avatar
131
Rep
492
Posts

Drives: 2015 911 GTS
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
If you've ever heard an E46M/997 GT3/E9XM/E60M winding to redline with a decent exhaust on it, all the pops and burbles in the world aren't going to do much for the turbo engines.
Agreed! Long live NA!
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow2554.50

      04-25-2018, 08:20 PM   #64
1MOREMOD
2018 track days - 0 ridge 1:52:24 pacific 1:33:30
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
6389
Rep
19,934
Posts

Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

True had both e90 and now e46 m3 track car although sounds fart can loud with bimmerworld race now
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2018, 07:11 AM   #65
kyrix1st
Lieutenant
kyrix1st's Avatar
Japan
215
Rep
515
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Euro, E36/7, E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Kyoto

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 BMW Z4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
In the end, the 991.2 GTS is a turbo engine and they all, unequivocally, sound pretty lame.

If you've ever heard an E46M/997 GT3/E9XM/E60M winding to redline with a decent exhaust on it, all the pops and burbles in the world aren't going to do much for the turbo engines.
One reason why I'll never buy a turbocharged car until it is required.

__________________
Pass me if you can.
Appreciate 2
SYT_Shadow2554.50
beats131.00

      04-26-2018, 11:04 AM   #66
ufgtrs2007
dentite
ufgtrs2007's Avatar
49
Rep
628
Posts

Drives: '15 F80 M3, '13 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NC

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2013 BMW M3  [0.00]
2013 BMW M5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Wow congrats those aren't easy to get.
Thank you it was a difficult process to get an allocation.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:26 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST