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      04-16-2018, 06:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
There are track tests showing the 991 GT3 to be significantly faster than the E9xM3 around the track. R&T and C&D do best drivers car tests and have data going back years.
I don't doubt it. I'd also expect that at 2x the base price and ~7 years newer. I also expect an M4 GTS to be faster than an E9X M.

Lightning Lap is a nice source of data for these comparisons although it's difficult to compare the pre-repaving times to the post.
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      04-16-2018, 10:02 AM   #24
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And don't forget the older LL times will be on much slower, shittier tires compared to what come on cars nowadays.

The 911 at least for me, is much more challenging and rewarding to drive fast than a f/r car. Getting back into the m3 feels so easy afterwards. I recommend frequenting local autox or hpde and seeing if you can cozy up to someone who will swap with you for a session.
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      04-16-2018, 11:53 AM   #25
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This is a bit mixed. There are people comparing 997s and 991s to E92 M3s. The 997 isn't a step above the M3 in any sense. The 991 can be. I'm talking about CS models for both, not even considering a non-S.
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      04-16-2018, 12:46 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeA View Post
This is a bit mixed. There are people comparing 997s and 991s to E92 M3s. The 997 isn't a step above the M3 in any sense. The 991 can be. I'm talking about CS models for both, not even considering a non-S.
this
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      04-17-2018, 09:32 PM   #27
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Didn't know that was ever an issue with a gt3
It's not.
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      04-17-2018, 09:33 PM   #28
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Well nice way of saying it besides bullshit bro
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      04-17-2018, 09:41 PM   #29
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I love the e92M3 just bought another one but guys, don't compare to a 991 GT3 as it relates to track performance. One is a race car. The other is a fantastic all-around car.

I think this thread is comparing to a non GT 911.
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      04-17-2018, 10:11 PM   #30
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I've had a bit of track time in a regular 991 C2, and I'd say it was easier to "push" than an E9x. It really encouraged me to drive hard.

On the other end of the spectrum, some time in the 991 Turbo S made me no longer have any interest in owning one for street use, at least in my city. It's absolutely bonkers fast, but unusable except for going to jail.
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      04-17-2018, 10:17 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
I love the e92M3 just bought another one but guys, don't compare to a 991 GT3 as it relates to track performance. One is a race car. The other is a fantastic all-around car.

I think this thread is comparing to a non GT 911.
Correct Longboarder.

I prefer something that is engaging even when I'm driving in 35/45 mph zones...which is vast majority of my driving. My 981 BS definitely qualifies. My M3 generally "wakes up" @ higher speeds. The 991.1 CS I drove felt less engaging than M3...which surprised me because I thought the much lighter weight would make the car feel more dynamic/tossable. As others have suggested, the capability of the car probably diminishes the experience on public roads.
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      04-18-2018, 12:31 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
I love the e92M3 just bought another one but guys, don't compare to a 991 GT3 as it relates to track performance. One is a race car. The other is a fantastic all-around car.

I think this thread is comparing to a non GT 911.
Correct Longboarder.

I prefer something that is engaging even when I'm driving in 35/45 mph zones...which is vast majority of my driving. My 981 BS definitely qualifies. My M3 generally "wakes up" @ higher speeds. The 991.1 CS I drove felt less engaging than M3...which surprised me because I thought the much lighter weight would make the car feel more dynamic/tossable. As others have suggested, the capability of the car probably diminishes the experience on public roads.
This is 100% spot on.

Just got out of the GT3 and it's impossible to enjoy at anything near legal speeds. You just touch the throttle and it rockets forward at any rpm (feels like 2 times the torque of the M3) and if you wring it out a couple gears to enjoy the 9k rpm howl u r in triple digits quick. No lean in any cornering...so it just begs you to take it at the threshold.

The e92 provides for a slightly similar visceral experience but you sometimes aren't even breaking the speed limit. It's the best car to enjoy a racecar experience (high revving NA motor with DCT trans) and yet keep speeds within reason.
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      04-18-2018, 01:34 PM   #33
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      04-18-2018, 02:29 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
This is 100% spot on.

Just got out of the GT3 and it's impossible to enjoy at anything near legal speeds. You just touch the throttle and it rockets forward at any rpm (feels like 2 times the torque of the M3) and if you wring it out a couple gears to enjoy the 9k rpm howl u r in triple digits quick. No lean in any cornering...so it just begs you to take it at the threshold.

The e92 provides for a slightly similar visceral experience but you sometimes aren't even breaking the speed limit. It's the best car to enjoy a racecar experience (high revving NA motor with DCT trans) and yet keep speeds within reason.
Porsche's "No Compromise" has become "No drama" in the 991, which is excellent for "intended purposes" but means that cars like the 991 Turbo S and the GT3/GT2 are very difficult to aggressively enjoy on the street.

On the track, while I normally agree with almost everything SYT_Shadow says, I have to disagree about the 991 GT3 and TTS. My time *with traffic* at PIR in my TTS is 15 seconds faster than I've been able to run in the E90 (with better tires). I cannot exaggerate how much of a drama-free monster the better 911s can be.

The reason I own an E90 M3 is two reasons:
1. I can financially afford to go 10/10ths in the M3 in 10 track days a year. I could total the M3 and walk away. I could not total a GT3 or TTS and replace it. Track day consumables in a GT3 are straightforward and not much more $ than an M3. Thats not the case with a TTS with PCCB.

2. The M3 is more fun to go fast with on a track. You can challenge the car while the track is crowded. The car responds really well to throttle inputs and the right line. Transition handling is remarkable for its weight (and thats with only Dinan supension bits). At he same time, the M3 is *incredibly* forgiving. Almost Miata levels of threshold. The TTS (and to a lesser degree the GT3) are much better at hiding driving.

The 997 is a much different car (even the GT3)... probably more like a less compromised less-comfortable E90. But the prices these cars are fetching make them financially risky to drive 10/10ths on a track. Unfortunately, thats the only place they excel. A $100k Boxster Spyder or Cayman GT4 is a *much* better (and engaging) street car with still great track capabilities.

I'm a huge Porsche fan, but any 997 on the track isn't a good fit compared to alternatives. The 991 is a *completely* different car.
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      04-18-2018, 07:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visceral View Post
On the track, while I normally agree with almost everything SYT_Shadow says, I have to disagree about the 991 GT3 and TTS. My time *with traffic* at PIR in my TTS is 15 seconds faster than I've been able to run in the E90 (with better tires). I cannot exaggerate how much of a drama-free monster the better 911s can be.
.
I don't have direct experience with the 991 GT3, the only things I can say about them are what their owners express during track days.

I suspect the 991 GT3 is massively capable but also requires very capable hands to extract its potential.

Which track is PIR?
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      04-18-2018, 10:02 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I don't have direct experience with the 991 GT3, the only things I can say about them are what their owners express during track days.

I suspect the 991 GT3 is massively capable but also requires very capable hands to extract its potential.

Which track is PIR?
https://portlandraceway.com/?/fan_guide/track_map
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      04-18-2018, 10:14 PM   #37
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So is the stock e92 10 seconds a lap faster than a 997.2 gt3 or have we backed off that now?
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      04-18-2018, 10:26 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
So is the stock e92 10 seconds a lap faster than a 997.2 gt3 or have we backed off that now?
It is frankly disappointing to have you and Longboarder basically calling me a troll. I did not expect that.

Please return to my post and read what I said. I'm not going to quote myself, but without editing my previous post I'm quite certain I said my student's 997.2 GT3 overheated while running 10 seconds slower than my stock E92.

In that statement I fail to see 'A stock M3 is 10 seconds faster than a GT3'. Please quote my previous post and show me where I said that.

My statement stands. I'm certainly not backing off what I experienced in the car in person. I guess next time I need a pic of a SoloDL and the temp gauge in the GT3? Maybe a written statement from the owner?
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      04-18-2018, 10:28 PM   #39
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Ah yes. The name made me think of Pitt Race but I also recalled you live on the other side of the US
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      04-18-2018, 10:29 PM   #40
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Okay that makes more sense if the gt3 is overheating for some reason than your car is faster. Much more reasonable.
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      04-18-2018, 10:32 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Ah yes. The name made me think of Pitt Race but I also recalled you live on the other side of the US
It's the better side, and with no California.
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      04-19-2018, 06:22 AM   #42
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It's the better side, and with no California.
Ah ok. We have a plant on PD, OR and it seems like a nice place
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      04-19-2018, 06:46 PM   #43
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While I know someday I will own a GT3, can we keep discussing why the E9x M3 is better car? It makes the wait much more tolerable.
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      04-20-2018, 12:37 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
I love the e92M3 just bought another one but guys, don't compare to a 991 GT3 as it relates to track performance. One is a race car. The other is a fantastic all-around car.

I think this thread is comparing to a non GT 911.
Correct. I just picked up my 991.2 GT3, different animal than my E92 M3. Amazing car. E92 M3 is still a gem IMO, but I will most likely be parting out and selling it.
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