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      12-19-2018, 03:16 PM   #1
Spun Crankhub
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Was talking with a 20+yr motorsport vet who referred to F8X as soul-less

Didnt want to post this in the other forum as I would for sure get lit up by the owners who obviously will have a preference for their car. Anyways, I am considering F8X to replace my sc'd E92 so that the gf can drive it a couple times a week. Was at an event a few weekends ago and a guy who I will only describe as being a seasoned vet in the motorsports world was complimenting me on my E9X, and when I told him that I was looking to move into an F8X proceeded to tell me that they are just lacking as far as sound, feel, and other characteristics.
Anyone on here have experience with both platforms? I am likely going to go find out for myself this next weekend doing a test drive in both F8X's.
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      12-19-2018, 03:17 PM   #2
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I've test driven a F80, he's not wrong.
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      12-19-2018, 03:26 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reed View Post
I've test driven a F80, he's not wrong.

Ugh, not the first reply I was hoping for .
Thanks for chiming in!!!
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      12-19-2018, 03:37 PM   #4
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I spent a weekend with a 500hp+ F82. While initially i was impressed with the interior, and the loads of torque, all that quickly dissapeared. All i was left with was a farting BMW that after a short time destroyed its own driveshaft.
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      12-19-2018, 03:42 PM   #5
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There are two M4s that lives in my apartment building. One of them is parked just a few stalls away from mine. On start up the M4 sounds hollow and muffled. Everyone once in awhile we'll run into each other in the underground and the e92 hands down sounds 100% better. For awhile there was an Aventador that lives in my building, on start up that car put ours to shame
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      12-19-2018, 04:24 PM   #6
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I got an F80 after my E92, and it is still my current daily driver. In my opinion, the interior is better, driving position feels better, and having all that torque is nice too. After two years, I went ahead and picked up another E92 because I missed it so much. Although I turned it into a full-blown racecar, I still enjoy driving it on the road from time to time.

Don't get me wrong though, I love my F80 and think it is an amazing car as a daily driver, but like many have said- it lacks that certain something. E9x is definitely more raw and fun to drive
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      12-19-2018, 04:25 PM   #7
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I have driven a M3 and M2. Very fast when driving digital full gas or full brake. When it comes to finesse and feathering on and off gas/brake it is very different. I like the heavy steering feel of the E90. Sound of turbo 6s is awful.
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      12-19-2018, 04:32 PM   #8
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The abundance of torque is fun right? The thing about the E9X is needing a good amount of road to really get the revs high enough to make all that horsepower.
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      12-19-2018, 04:38 PM   #9
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I love my E92. Recently installed JRZ RS1. The car is even better now. I must be getting old because the E92 feels really fast to me.

I very good friend of mine had an F8X. He loved it. He could give a shit about how it sounds. He did a Euro delivery and did the Ring & Spa. I think his only complaint was that it needed more tire for the amount of torque available.
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      12-19-2018, 04:45 PM   #10
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There is nothing special about the F8X. At all. It's a great tool though, very capable performance vehicle - and that's where it ends. The E9X is a far more emotional and enjoyable driving experience. The F8X is merely utilitarian in comparison.
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      12-19-2018, 05:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ixSpd View Post
There is nothing special about the F8X. At all. It's a great tool though, very capable performance vehicle - and that's where it ends. The E9X is a far more emotional and enjoyable driving experience. The F8X is merely utilitarian in comparison.
I just got back from the dealership I was picking up a third break light for my daily and I sat in a m3 and the m2 competition.

Although I did not drive it just from the seating positioning I like it much more than my e90 M but that's probably where it ends for me. Still love my s65...

Another thing I noticed was the clutch in the new Ms seem to bite much more aggressively... I really like it, maybe because it's a fresh clutch? Who knows but the bite came on very early on and it really had a kick to it on the way off the clutch.
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      12-19-2018, 05:31 PM   #12
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I've driven and owned many M cars. He's definitely right on the money.
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      12-19-2018, 05:50 PM   #13
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Yea, we know.
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      12-19-2018, 07:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacoChris View Post
The abundance of torque is fun right? The thing about the E9X is needing a good amount of road to really get the revs high enough to make all that horsepower.
I guess. It just depends what you enjoy

I owned a 2018 zcp manual and just didn’t like it at all.

It sounds very quiet and bad, and has zero engine sound. On downshifts I couldn’t even hear the car when blipping the throttle and the throttle response is very slow compared to the s65.

It is also large and the steering is just bad. It’s very unnatural feeling, especially mid corner at speed which feels almost spooky at times.

It handles well, but it’s very firm riding, borderline uncomfortable.

I find the e9x much more exciting to drive and plenty fast, and I have a stock manual zcp e92.

For sure try it but it definitely wasn’t for me.

Not all turbo 6 engines sound bad btw, the m2 sounds much better than m3 and the gtr sounds good too.
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      12-20-2018, 02:38 AM   #15
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The only way to see if the F8x is the right car for you is to drive it and see how it makes you feel. Chris Harris and Jeremy Clarkson both love the F8x. Chris Harris calls the F8x the best M3 ever made and he knows a thing or two about cars.

We're on an E9x forum so you'll get lots of biased answers, go and post the same thing over on the F8x forums and you'll see why the F8x is God's Chariot and the E9x is a gutless POS that eats rod bearings and poops throttle actuators with a school bus driving position all in a package that weighs more than the moon.

Seriously out of the box, the E9x M3 is dialed in great from the factory. With the F8x, if you're going to keep it stock you probably won't fully enjoy it unless you get a CS model, in fact, it made me quite frustrated sometimes. I didn't fall in love with my F80 until I did a few simple mods to it. At one point I started getting buyers remorse because it didn't behave as I expected from a $93,000 car, after owning mine for over a year now and learning to improve the little quirks, it turns into such a rewarding and fantastic car to own. I can't imagine myself NOT owning an F80. Here are some of the things I did to the car that made it perfect for me.

First off the stock F8x exhaust, yeah it's not that great but it's not as bad as some make it seem. It CAN sound pretty damn good with the right setup, I've had thumbs up from a Lambo and Ferrari owner when I had my AA mid-pipe setup with my MPE rear, sounds quite exotic in the upper revs.

Next up are the stock tires, the stock F8x has too much power for the stock tires, combined with an overly intrusive MDM mode it makes for a crappy experience. I remember traction control kicking in even in 3rd gear and cutting power and when it cuts power you get lots of odd farting noises too. It's not a gradual cut either. Yuck. This was what soured my experience the most.

Upgrade to some Pilot 4S one size wider and get EURO MDM, GTS Diff coded and the car is transformed, traction is abundance even with TC fully off. Best upgrade to fully enjoy the F8x is good tires. It was a different car after getting better tires and EURO MDM coded! Wheel spin is inevitable sometimes but with GTS DIFF coding the car will shoot straight like an arrow,.

Steering feel, yes the F8x steering is a bit numb compared to the E9x but it's still awesome, just not as good as the E9x. The solution, get GTS steering coded and it feels way better, more direct and more feel. I had it coded and it feels F-A-N-T-A-S-T-I-C! Sure my E92 M3 is hydraulically assisted and steering feel, while being good, isn't the best, my BRZ with an electric steering rack actually felt more natural and better than both my E92 M3s, one a ZCP. If I could rate steering feel on a scale of 1-10, my BRZ would be a 9, E92 M3 8.5 and my F80 with GTS Coding a solid 8.

Power, yes even stock the F8x is a powerful beast but who doesn't want more right? The beauty of the F8x is with $500 or $350 if you buy a "used" license, you get another 100WHP. It takes an already fast car and puts it into a different category. A tune and better tires are the tickets, it's a rocket ship that never fails to impress me and makes the car infinitely more enjoyable (sometimes scary), a downside is my wife is afraid to ride in the F80 now.

With just those few upgrades, my F80 is currently the best car I've ever owned, period. I think it has a lot to do with the engine, the S55 is simply a masterpiece. Sure it doesn't sound awesome stock or with certain exhaust combinations but EVERYTHING else about it is amazing. It doesn't feel turbocharged, there is no lag, it doesn't seem to ever run out of power anywhere even in the top end. It feels like you have a couple of rocket boosters strapped to the back controlled by your right foot, all the time.

In the end, I can see why some owners might jump ship, the car is still relatively new and most people leased them so they are afraid of warranty issues, modding etc. I've never leased a car so I don't know how true this is, but somebody told me once when you lease, AKA rent the car, you don't build a close bond with it knowing the romance will be over in a couple years. You build more of a bond and connection with a car you own. I have a feeling once the F80 gets older and people start actually buying them instead of leasing them, the car will be very much loved just like every other M3 before it.

Last edited by DanMpower; 12-25-2018 at 10:17 PM..
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      12-20-2018, 11:51 AM   #16
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F8x front grip is worlds better than E9x

But you can’t tell what’s going on up there through the wheel it’s all butt dyno, and the steering input seems a little disconnected from what the tires do it’s weird. I’ll second the mid-corner spookiness. Exactly how I felt. TALK TO ME GOOSE

And I don’t know what a soulless engine is but the s55 isn’t one. It may sound like an s54 with turbos and digestion issues, crop dusting everyone you drive past with pointless flatulence, but the s65 is Bronze Age in comparison from a performance standpoint, even if it got WORSE fuel economy it’d be an improvement, but it’s 30-50% better...

Same deal for the diff. Yeah it’s doing a lot of thinking for you, but active diff lock is a huge improvement over the “is it open is it locked he loves me he loves me not” GKN in the E9x

The E9x is fast enough for me and you can get it without idrive. I look at enough screens all day give me a break and let me just look out the windshield for a change...but I don’t think it has “more” soul, whatever that means. However If you have an aural fixation obviously there’s not much to talk about

Last edited by Richbot; 12-20-2018 at 11:59 AM..
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      12-20-2018, 06:42 PM   #17
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E9x M3 has a unique engine, F8x M3 is a modified 335 engine (closed deck, bigger turbos & higher flow injectors)
E9x has a more comfortable ride compared to F8x

Prefer E9x if having access to open roads, must be revved higher to be enjoyed.
Prefer F8x if driving in city/traffic, turbo surge is fun!

Both are good cars depending on one's driving situation & personal preferences!
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      12-21-2018, 12:46 AM   #18
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I prefer the E92 as well but to say the F80 is soul-less is a little extreme. Driving that car with traction off and throwing it into slides is just pure fun! I would definitely not call it soul-less unless you haven't really driven one with traction off. People said this about the GTR too and all I can say is that you're just not driving it hard enough.
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      12-21-2018, 01:48 AM   #19
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Wow, some very well thought out responses on here. Thanks!
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      12-21-2018, 04:10 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacoChris View Post
The abundance of torque is fun right? The thing about the E9X is needing a good amount of road to really get the revs high enough to make all that horsepower.
It would be nice if the e92 had more torque down low but my only gripe is the weight 3,700 pounds
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      12-21-2018, 06:04 AM   #21
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I believe newer cars in general have less character than their previous generations, mostly because of being turbocharged & electric steering to meet emissions regulations.
In exchange there is more power & with stiffer suspension tuning, newer generation cars are better performers, if you prefer numbers over driving feel & character. Your choice!
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      12-21-2018, 09:12 AM   #22
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I believe "soul" in a car is incredibly subjective and it depends on the person you ask.

I'm a creative. Professionally I'm a designer, as a hobbyist I'm a musician and collect vintage vinyl. I love history and going to concerts, I get sentimental about stuff, I like original hardwood floors in historic homes and other stupid stuff people would replace. The last time I cried was a few months ago listening to David Gilmour's slide guitar solo on "High Hopes" off Pink Floyd's live album "Pulse" that I have already heard 100 times. It's likely a huge portion of my emotions are driven by sound, style, and history, which plays a significant role in determining what I view as soulful or soulless.

To me, the F8x has no soul, at all. It's a better car than the E9x by almost every account. Numbers are numbers are numbers. But it's missing something that makes a car special to me.

But... An accountant who's hobby is visiting every Hooters restaurant in America and watching golf on TV may have a different opinion on the soullessness of the F8x.

It might be worth considering your audience when asking whether or not the car has soul, and whether or not their person as aligned with your person I guess.
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