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      05-02-2015, 11:24 AM   #1
WestRace
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Does the E90 M3 plow a bit in turn?

I've driven both the E46 M3 and E90 M3 and it seems to me the front end of the E90 sort of plows a little on tight turn whereas the E46 feels a little more balance getting the rear around. My E90 is a sedan so it may bit a bit higher off the ground so maybe that's where the feeling comes from. Does anyone have similar experience?
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      05-02-2015, 11:29 AM   #2
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Yes. Adjusting the front toe will eliminate this and make the car more tail happy of you want.
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      05-02-2015, 12:15 PM   #3
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Added camber via camber plates makes a world of deference.
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      05-02-2015, 12:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
I've driven both the E46 M3 and E90 M3 and it seems to me the front end of the E90 sort of plows a little on tight turn whereas the E46 feels a little more balance getting the rear around. My E90 is a sedan so it may bit a bit higher off the ground so maybe that's where the feeling comes from. Does anyone have similar experience?
I think the same can be said for most all cars out there, since plowing or understeer is much easier to recover from than oversteer and therefor safer to recover from.

Camber plates will help as well as a good alignment. If the problem persists, look into aftermarket suspension and choose correct spring rates.
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      05-02-2015, 12:56 PM   #5
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I felt the same thing! I believe it's because of the softer springs up front & ride height?!
After a spring change?(H&R RS) it now feels like its on rails through the corners
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      05-02-2015, 01:53 PM   #6
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I think the front end will wash out a little easier in the E9X mostly because of the weight transfer under braking. Nothing that a little throttle can't fix.
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      05-02-2015, 02:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracyis300 View Post
I felt the same thing! I believe it's because of the softer springs up front & ride height?!
After a spring change?(H&R RS) it now feels like its on rails through the corners
Actually softer springs in front will make it turn in sooner. The e90 is heavier than e46 which contributes to this also.
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      05-02-2015, 03:22 PM   #8
WestRace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I think the front end will wash out a little easier in the E9X mostly because of the weight transfer under braking. Nothing that a little throttle can't fix.
That is true but I was comparing to the E46 M3 which has a better balance front to rear, although the E90 front suspension bites into corner better which helps out if the corner entry is a little overcooked.

I only recently bought the E90 M3. Now that I have first hand experience, I just felt like all these reviews somewhat overhyped the car like it was a perfect sport/track DD car. I could really find quite a few obvious faults that I never read anywhere on the magazines. I remember Car & Driver actually picked it over the 997 turbo and the GTR. Ironically, to me one reason to pick this over the E46 is for the track due to its better power, suspension design, but if you buy one for the track, wouldn't the 997 turbo or the GTR be better?

Driving around town the E90 does feel like a nice normal, comfortable car which may be a good thing, but it wears a M badge which should distinguish itself from the rest. BMW has plenty of cars that are nice, comfortable with high performance. Why would one make the M just like any other cars?

Last edited by WestRace; 05-02-2015 at 03:36 PM.
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      05-02-2015, 04:51 PM   #9
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Try 255/35/19 in the front or a 265 squared setup using Pilot Super Sports or some streetable track tire.

Like someone mentioned above, manufacturers favor understeer in their cars stock. If the M3 oversteered in stock form, there will be a lot less on the road today because most of them will be wrapped around trees or smashed at the track.
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      05-02-2015, 11:30 PM   #10
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Understeer is baked into most stock BMW's, more negative camber up front and a square setup will help.
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      05-03-2015, 12:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
That is true but I was comparing to the E46 M3 which has a better balance front to rear, although the E90 front suspension bites into corner better which helps out if the corner entry is a little overcooked.

I only recently bought the E90 M3. Now that I have first hand experience, I just felt like all these reviews somewhat overhyped the car like it was a perfect sport/track DD car. I could really find quite a few obvious faults that I never read anywhere on the magazines. I remember Car & Driver actually picked it over the 997 turbo and the GTR. Ironically, to me one reason to pick this over the E46 is for the track due to its better power, suspension design, but if you buy one for the track, wouldn't the 997 turbo or the GTR be better?

Driving around town the E90 does feel like a nice normal, comfortable car which may be a good thing, but it wears a M badge which should distinguish itself from the rest. BMW has plenty of cars that are nice, comfortable with high performance. Why would one make the M just like any other cars?
The problem with the E46 is that is has a lot more dynamic camber change when cornering. The E9X is a better design. The E9X is much crisper and less likely to result in terminal understeer despite the slightly worse weight balance.
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      05-03-2015, 01:03 AM   #12
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Look up understeer in a dictionary, and you'll see a pic of an E46.

My suspension is far from stock, so I can't comment on a stock car, but with coils, and -2 degrees camber, the rear end comes around pretty easily with just a little throttle.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      05-03-2015, 02:31 AM   #13
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anyone know what the stock spring rates are for the e9x m3's?
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      05-03-2015, 05:04 AM   #14
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I'm surprised to see so many people think the E46 M3 understeers less than the E92 M3.
I had three E46 M3s over 6 years and in standard form they all understeered more than the E92 M3 I've had for the last 6+ years.
Maybe its because mine is a non EDC car?
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      05-03-2015, 08:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
I'm surprised to see so many people think the E46 M3 understeers less than the E92 M3.
I had three E46 M3s over 6 years and in standard form they all understeered more than the E92 M3 I've had for the last 6+ years.
Maybe its because mine is a non EDC car?
Most cars manufacturers tune their suspensions to have some understeer , EDC or not.
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      05-03-2015, 01:11 PM   #16
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I am actually surprised at how much my E92 M3 understeers. I put springs, shocks, sways and wider wheels/tires on my E46 M3 and man did that thing handle amazing. Cant wait to do that to this one. The understeer really is unfortunate and makes this car feel underwhelming.
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      05-03-2015, 02:05 PM   #17
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The expectation with 414hp is you do a little steering with your right foot.

The E46 just can't do it as well without some more front grip and being in a lower gear.

I've driven my E90 on the track with just Dinan springs and sway bars on OE tires. There was understeer but nothing like an E46 on stock camber.

Adding a touch of negative camber up front with square tire sizes really makes the E90 neutral. I had -2.5 in the E90. I run a ridiculous -3.8 in my E46.
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      05-03-2015, 02:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cenix View Post
anyone know what the stock spring rates are for the e9x m3's?
Front: 160 lb/in
Rear: 550 lb/in
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      05-03-2015, 11:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
I've driven both the E46 M3 and E90 M3 and it seems to me the front end of the E90 sort of plows a little on tight turn whereas the E46 feels a little more balance getting the rear around. My E90 is a sedan so it may bit a bit higher off the ground so maybe that's where the feeling comes from. Does anyone have similar experience?
I think the e46 plows a little more than an e90 with ZCP. I haven't spent much time in a non ZCP...so can't comment on that.
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      05-07-2015, 10:04 PM   #20
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Its not that hard.

The nut behind the wheel makes the car plow.

Any car can " plow" if given the input needed to behave that way.

Throwing fancy spec suspensions and $$$$ at the car will only make problems worse.
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      05-09-2015, 10:44 AM   #21
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Strangely, mine does too…..maybe this pic can offer some hints…..oddly, I am popular with the track clean up crews though
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      05-09-2015, 11:53 AM   #22
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E9X platform is a bit heavy, but surprisingly nimble and balanced at speed.

I imagine the E46 will feel more nimble in slow tight turns. The E9X will feel more nimble and stable in faster turns.
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