E9x M3 vs. E46 M3 Driving Experience (2021 Edition)

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I'm no fan of any automatic, including SMG (currently in the process of converting my e60 M5 from SMG to 6MT, have converted several e46 M3s), but this post is insane. SMG is completely fine (good, even) on track and works on the street once you learn how to drive it. Of the single clutch systems (Ferrari, LFA, Aston), it's one of the best out there.

I don't like it because I don't like any automatic-- but if I had to take some sort of automatic, I'd take SMG over DCT, because it forces you to be more involved in driving (rev matching, lifting, etc).

... and the notion that it makes it the worst M car is just silly.

So you admit to changing a number of SMG's to MT's yet I voice my opinion on the e46 SMG being the worst and my post is insane? lmfao

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

So you admit to changing a number of SMG's to MT's yet I voice my opinion on the e46 SMG being the worst and my post is insane? lmfao

Yes.

... did you read your post?

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Yes.

... did you read your post?

Yes.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Yes.

So, by your reckoning, SMG e46 M3 is the worst car BMW ever made. Worse than e65, worse than Isetta, worse than the F30, worse than the F10, worse than any of BMW SUVs, worse than an non M e46 with SMG.

And the transmission complete negates the e46 M3 having one of the best ever engines, one of BMW's best ever exteriors, one of BMW's best ever interiors, being a good size for a fun car, sitting at the generally agreed upon sweet spot between analog and digital cars, and having one of BMW's most enjoyable chassis?

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Obioban

So, by your reckoning, SMG e46 M3 is the worst car BMW ever made. Worse than e65, worse than Isetta, worse than the F30, worse than the F10, worse than any of BMW SUVs, worse than an non M e46 with SMG.

While I have't driven them all, they likely wouldn't make me want to vomit.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

While I have't driven them all, they likely wouldn't make me want to vomit.

The SMG does not suffer fools gladly. Drive it like a manual car and it won't add any nausea. Drive it like an automatic and it sucks. It is 100% on the driver to rev match and lift as appropriate, to make it smooth (at least on the street-- on track it's pretty smooth on its own).

That is, in fact, why I prefer it to other automatics. I just don't like it as much as an actual manual.

[ol doc gully]

Originally Posted by Obioban

It is 100% on the driver to rev match and lift as appropriate, to make it smooth (at least on the street-- on track it's pretty smooth on its own).

That is, in fact, why I prefer it to other automatics. I just don't like it as much as an actual manual.

If I can get a manual I will, 10 times out of 10, funny thing is that this knowledge and conversation is actually now making me interested in an SMG

[14_deltaM3]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I'm no fan of any automatic, including SMG (currently in the process of converting my e60 M5 from SMG to 6MT, have converted several e46 M3s), but this post is insane. SMG is completely fine (good, even) on track and works on the street once you learn how to drive it. Of the single clutch systems (Ferrari, LFA, Aston), it's one of the best out there.

I don't like it because I don't like any automatic-- but if I had to take some sort of automatic, I'd take SMG over DCT, because it forces you to be more involved in driving (rev matching, lifting, etc).

... and the notion that it makes it the worst M car is just silly.

I think the argument that SMG in the e46 M3 is even closely comparable to the single clutch systems in any Ferrari that came after (430, 430 scud, 599, etc…) or the LFA is absolutely ridiculous. The SMG is a terrible transmission by any objective measure - it’s a terribly unreliable transmission that offers none of the modulation a real manual does, and is a terrible ownership experience overall. That it can pass muster when driven in purely track/racing context is not a redeeming factor.

Having said that, I don’t disagree with you that the e46 SMG isn’t the worst bmw ever…

Alll told, I still really struggle with the rose tinted glasses the e46 appears to seem through. I’ve driven it back to back with the e92 and other BMWs, and am always left with the same conclusion - it’s good, but not great at anything, and is less memorable to drive than an e92. That it weighs only a couple hundred pounds less doesn’t make it “raw” - that’s just the fact that it’s a 10 year older design with safety and structural integrity that matches it’s age.

I think it comes down to nostalgia, and misperceptions of what the e92 represented mostly due to the first reviews suggesting it was so much bigger and heavier. Maybe compare to the CSL Europe got, perhaps.

[Richbot]

Talk to your doctor about whether Zofran is right for you if driving a pretty sweet car makes you want to vomit

I really like SMG for the reason Obioban stated. It's a lot like some of the dumber paddle-shift japanese autos from the before times that were in subarus and such - it will actually do what you tell it to, and no more. WOT at 1200rpm in 5th? Sure. Slap against the redline? Sure. Just don't push your foot through the kickdown switch unless you want it to do something stupid

I still agree about the E9x. It's Speciale. I keep driving really cool new cars and getting back in mine and thinking "this is still better."

[kyrix1st]

I would love to try an E46 M3 SMG if it throttle blips correctly like the rest of the market at the time. Even my Z4 SMG (which uses a different unit from Magneti-Marelli) was much more satisfying to drive than the M3 SMG.

[nycplumber]

Like others have said you need to drive the SMG like a manual. And like a manual you need to have your foot on the gas when you rev match down shift. Unlike our getrag DCT not doing so will make you want to vomit lol

[TboneS54]

And you need the csl and inertia 255 (might not have that exactly right) tune.

[Headhunter.M3]

I just picked up a nice e46. Competition package. Manual. 2006. Its sweet, always wanted one. Found one for a great price low mileage.

Coming from an e92. Disappointed. E92 is so much better. Literally in every way.

I think the hype come from how the e46 looks. It just looks so cool.

E92 is better. In every way. The e46 is not more raw feeling. If it is then the e92 makes up for it in being better in every way.

[Siajoon]

Can we all just take a moment and show some love and respect for the two last naturally aspirated high revving M3s that we will ever see from bmw?

cheers to that because the new shit bmw pumpin out looks like trash!!

[Peertwelve]

Originally Posted by Siajoon

Can we all just take a moment and show some love and respect for the two last naturally aspirated high revving M3s that we will ever see from bmw?

cheers to that because the new shit bmw pumpin out looks like trash!!

Amen.

[slightlyfastermobile]

Originally Posted by Headhunter.M3

I think the hype come from how the e46 looks. It just looks so cool.

Not quite as boxy as older BMWs but not as rounded as newer ones. Juuuuussttt right.

[Aw5993]

Originally Posted by Headhunter.M3

I just picked up a nice e46. Competition package. Manual. 2006. Its sweet, always wanted one. Found one for a great price low mileage.

Coming from an e92. Disappointed. E92 is so much better. Literally in every way.

I think the hype come from how the e46 looks. It just looks so cool.

E92 is better. In every way. The e46 is not more raw feeling. If it is then the e92 makes up for it in being better in every way.

Agreed. E46 just looks great, but e92 drives better in every way.

[ol doc gully]

Originally Posted by slightlyfastermobile

Not quite as boxy as older BMWs but not as rounded as newer ones. Juuuuussttt right.

That's funny, I've honestly never really been a fan of E46 styling - always thought of it as the epitome of BMW transitioning to 'executiveness' and away from cool sporty daily sedans (I adorrree E36 styling). But reading that description, and being a big fan of three-box styling, now I very much get it. You really just made me do a complete 180 on my long standing opinion on E46 styling hahaha.

[Headhunter.M3]

Originally Posted by Headhunter.M3

I just picked up a nice e46. Competition package. Manual. 2006. Its sweet, always wanted one. Found one for a great price low mileage.

Coming from an e92. Disappointed. E92 is so much better. Literally in every way.

I think the hype come from how the e46 looks. It just looks so cool.

E92 is better. In every way. The e46 is not more raw feeling. If it is then the e92 makes up for it in being better in every way.

You know.. i take this statement back.. the e46 has been growing on me. I added the polyurethane rear trailing arm bushings and that really tightened it up. I also added wider tires. 235/35/19 and 265/30/19 michelins ps4s. That also helped... not sure which is better now...

My e90 definitely has more creature comforts. Those are nice. Bluetooth and more comfortable yet still race car like. Added an aux port to the e46 so now i can play music from my phone. Love that.

Really hard to say which is better.

I think if i added an exhaust to my e46 I would pick that over my e90 zcp.

Stock for stock i would say e90/e92 though. All day long.

However the e46 really responds well to mods. I think i now get more smiles per gallon with the e46. More on the edge/rawness.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Headhunter.M3

You know.. i take this statement back.. the e46 has been growing on me. I added the polyurethane rear trailing arm bushings and that really tightened it up. I also added wider tires. 235/35/19 and 265/30/19 michelins ps4s. That also helped... not sure which is better now...

My e90 definitely has more creature comforts. Those are nice. Bluetooth and more comfortable yet still race car like. Added an aux port to the e46 so now i can play music from my phone. Love that.

Really hard to say which is better.

I think if i added an exhaust to my e46 I would pick that over my e90 zcp.

Stock for stock i would say e90/e92 though. All day long.

However the e46 really responds well to mods. I think i now get more smiles per gallon with the e46. More on the edge/rawness.

Factory Bluetooth was available, but these days what you really want is bluebus.
https://nam3forum.com/forums/forum/m...tooth-solution

If you want more sound, I highly recommend a CSL airbox. Makes the car sound like a McLaren F1… whereas most mufflers make it sound like a civic. Loud intake quiet exhaust is the key to e46 sound happiness.

... and if the RTABs made that big a difference, that probably means the originals were shot-- which probably means you could see considerable improvement from replacing the other original bushings/bearings/balljoints with new stock.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Obioban

I'd take SMG over DCT, because it forces you to be more involved in driving (rev matching, lifting, etc).

... and the notion that it makes it the worst M car is just silly.

HA!

Biggest load of crap ever, no one wants an SMG.

Originally Posted by Longboarder

The e46 with the SMG is the not only the WORST M car ever made, it is arguably the worst car ever made by BMW.

Agreed. Throw it in a vert, complete trash.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by tdott

HA!

Biggest load of crap ever, no one wants an SMG.

I'd say the more you think automatics ruin sporty cars, the better SMG seems relative to DCT/torque converters/CVTs. It's the least automatic feeling automatic of the bunch

But, true, I don't want one-- first thing I did to my e60 M5 was 6mt swap it... because I think all forms of automatics ruin sporty cars.