Official Harrop TVS1740 Supercharger Thread

[Bakerboy]

Thanks for your replies

I find it quite strange how far off the mark it is though, nearly 100hp off claimed, considering I run 98 octane and primary decats.

I ran the car previously with stage 2 tune and was making 450hp flywheel on evolve’s dyno, ran the car for 2 years like this before going for the charger at 514hp (430whp).

The kit I bought second hand from a guy who had bought the kit originally from the U.K. distributor abbey motorsport. The kit made 498hp at the wheels on there dynapack without much adaption time after they installed it on his car. Considering I’m 70hp away from that it makes me think something a miss.

Don’t get me wrong the car is impressive at the power it is but it’s miles away from the supposed potential.

Edit: have you guys got an AFR plot reading you can share out of interest?

[eternallx]

Are you 100% sure that chart is flywheel? (even tho it says flywheel)
There are plenty of dynos stateside that says flywheel on the chart (usually dynapack Dynos) but its actually wheel hp.

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by eternallx

Are you 100% sure that chart is flywheel? (even tho it says flywheel)
There are plenty of dynos stateside that says flywheel on the chart (usually dynapack Dynos) but its actually wheel hp.

Good question, I asked the same thing but to my disappointment it was fly power, he showed me wheel hp on screen.

[eternallx]

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Good question, I asked the same thing but to my disappointment it was fly power, he showed me wheel hp on screen.

If nothing is wrong with your blower/install.

One other thing is that the dyno you used Dyno Dynamics can read a lot lower than other same model dynos as well as other dyno types depending how its setup. Hence the term heart breaker dynos.

I've had my car dynoed on a dynapack and made 490whp; on a known heart breaker dyno dynamic I made 410whp. (stock e92 m3 makes under 300 on it)

Ask what a NA m3 makes on their dyno?
Or race a stock GTR. you should be able to walk it slightly.

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by eternallx

If nothing is wrong with your blower/install.

One other thing is that the dyno you used Dyno Dynamics can read a lot lower than other same model dynos as well as other dyno types depending how its setup. Hence the term heart breaker dynos.

I've had my car dynoed on a dynapack and made 490whp; on a known heart breaker dyno dynamic I made 410whp. (stock e92 m3 makes under 300 on it)

Ask what a NA m3 makes on their dyno?
Or race a stock GTR. you should be able to walk it slightly.

I always said I wouldn’t care what result was as the car is so much better than before but was a shock when I saw the results all being said.

Good shout on the dyno differences, I kind of expected that but with such a variance had me wondering.

I will see what boost it’s running through the eBay special boost gauge I have just bought. It might not be the most accurate but should show if it’s holding boost properly.

AFR plot would be interesting though if anyone else has one from their ride it would be good?

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by M3Post

Greetings Bakerboy, and welcome to the Harrop SC club. 430whp is low for an S65 V8 M3 with a Harrop SC. Heck, some are putting 400whp down without an SC and full bolt-ons. Don't worry though, with the help of this board, Harrop and no doubt Mike B' at BPM, we can figure it out. I had a heck of a time getting mine to work properly and that was due to a bad bypass valve controller ECU motherboard. But enough about that. Back to your situation.

If you find no boost leaks, then tell us what boost the system is making when the Bypass Valve is fully open. I'm embedding a photo of where to tap the boost using a standard threaded fitting. I personally suspect that the Bypass Valve is not opening properly and the system is not making full boost. Try recalibrating the Bypass Valve Actuator as described in the Harrop install guide. Make sure that when the gas pedal is at WOT that the Bypass Valve Acuator fully opens and stays open.

Without going into a long story, I put mine on the dyno to check this, and then stood peering into the engine bay and made a video of the Bypass Valve operation, when I had problems. I wouldn't recommend this for most folks, but it is one way to check normal actuator operation.

If the boost signal is below 6.0 to 6.3psi then full boost is not being achieved and hence the WHP numbers are down.

Step 1: Recalibrate Bypass Valve
Step 2: Check Bypass Valve is opening all the way at WOT
Step 3: Do at same time as step 2 - tap the plenum at the port and measure the boost with a gage

It's also possible the Bypass Valve Actuator Controller CPU is "bad". I had to get mine repaired, while waiting for Harrop to express ship a replacement. Which they did. Just as an FYI - The Harrop Actuator Controller CPU is contained (installed) in the DME-ECU plastic box near the firewall.

Awesome reply m3 post!

I did upload the supercharger calibration if that’s what you mean? I Did this myself.

As for the test you talk about checking for the arm moving on bypass, does this have to be performed on a dyno or can you do this static by revving engine?

Noted on the boost it should be, does it steadily increase then with revs? The car is phenomenal low to mid then top end felt slightly flat, which would explain that.

Also what was up with the motherboard on yours, anything worth looking for?

Thanks for your reply.

[Bakerboy]

I live on the Somerset flats in the U.K. so not high sea level.

I did the recalibration you explained, took it for a drive and boy it goes however it did before. I’m just going to drive it for now and get boost reading once the gauge turns up and let that do the talking.

Thanks for the help will touch base in the following days to share the boost reading.

Originally Posted by M3Post

Hello Bakerboy,

Something I forgot to mention, or ask is; at what elevation above sea level was your dyno test done? Barometric pressure and altitude affect the total boost measured. IF you are living in Denver (a mile high) high up in the mountains, or even more above sea level, the boost measured will be reduced. See earlier post in this thread on this subject.

No I am not talking about the software tune upload for the Harrop; I am talking about the Bypass Valve Actuator calibration: Do the following: Unplug Bypass Valve Actuator at the plenum, turn the ignition on, wait twenty seconds, turn the ignition off, plug the bypass valve actuator back in, turn the ignition back on. The bypass valve actuator should then relearn its open and closed home positions.

You Asked: "As for the test you talk about checking for the arm moving on bypass, does this have to be performed on a dyno or can you do this static by revving engine?" Answer = See the calibration method above. The actuator can be cycled without being on the Dyno. After calibration, turn on the ignition (all of the lights come on the dash), then full throttle (WOT - gas pedal to the floor). As far as I understand the operation: The actuator should then see a signal from the Actuator CPU and open the Bypass valve as if the engine was running.

You Asked: "does it steadily increase then with revs?" Answer = No, the bypass valve doesn't open "fully" until ~3200RPM. After that the total positive pressure from the TVS SC in the plenum is "seen" by the S65 inlet throttle bodies (6.3psi) by about 4200RPM. Before that RPM point, the Bypass valve exposes the throttle bodies to slightly above barometric pressure (~0.5psi at idle) as boost builds with RPM from 2000RPM to 4200RPM when a steady state of 6.3psi is achieved. So, the bypass valve mimics a kind of simple waste gate. If you sample to boost signal on the Dyno, you should see the boost pressure build signal ramp up until the 4200RPM plateau (6.3psi). However, the actuator causes a non-linear kink in the boost curve around 3200RPM (knee in the curve) though some don't seem to feel that kick or mention it which may be dependent on back pressure (no cats or cats).

You Asked: "Also what was up with the motherboard on yours, anything worth looking for?" Answer = The motherboard etching and soldering of two or three transistors and circuit paths was bad on my Actuator controller. I was instructed by Harrop to resolder some component connections and resolder some motherboard areas while waiting for a replacement part fix. If the Actuator does not cycle properly at WOT, then yes, call Mike B' and or Heath Moore at Harrop and describe what's happening just in case you might have a bad actuator, or bad actuator controller. Do this only after measuring the boost at WOT AND recalibrating the actuator.

I made some videos of what was not happening in my case (actuator would cycle and then drop back to home i.e. it would not stay open). I shot some video of the bypass valve actuator rod cycling at WOT on the dyno, and then looped the video after clipping it. It was then that we saw the bypass valve actuator rod tried to close at WOT, but then ‘fell back’ to the open position even when the throttle was still at WOT. The videos were sent to BPMSport and Harrop via e-mail and texts. Harrop debugged what was happening with the actuator controller circuitry and told me how to make a repair -> IF I felt confident repairing the micro circuit connections. Which we did.

[Mkhoid]

I got 450 to the wheel with 100 wet shot of nitrous and the kit costs me 650.

I wouldn't mine running this supercharger kit though. That root style is crazy

[8500RPM]

Originally Posted by Mkhoid

I got 450 to the wheel with 100 wet shot of nitrous and the kit costs me 650.

I wouldn't mine running this supercharger kit though. That root style is crazy

What kit did you use? That's the perfect amount of HP for having fun on the highway or some 1/4 mile runs.

[Bakerboy]

EDIT: it says on the belt, DOH!

Have you replaced the belt in your ownership?

If so could you share the spec spec the would be good, as worth changing. I get the odd misfire feeling in higher rpm aswell and read further back in this thread that changing belt and tensioner cured this for them.

I have code read with no faults following the odd misfire. I said previously that I wasn’t getting any dust in belt area but on closer inspection there is a bit present and I can twist the belt through 90 degrees on the longest part..

The plugs would surely give a misfire code, air filter is a bmc and cleaned not that long ago. Blocked cat, how do you check this?

Originally Posted by M3Post

Bakerboy, at the link below you will find the S65 Dyno-database link. This database can be filtered to find TVS Harrop dyno charts and data. Various types of Dynos are included. For example: A Dynojet typically reads 15% higher than a Mustang Dyno due to the difference in design.

http://www.s65dynos.com/DynoDB.php?vType=1&dynoID=2

Here are some screen shots that show what numbers folks are generating with the TVS Harrop kit. Keep in mind the various types of exhausts and other mods which help explain the variance in results.

I run an NGK Racing Iridium spark plug that is one heat range cooler and which is the same "safe anti-knock" philosophy that the G-Power and Gintani kits use. Now I know their are all sorts of naysayers that will say that is blasphemy - BUT I've run those plugs for over 25K miles with no problems. Old spark plugs, or old O2 sensors, or blocked cats, bad gas, or a bad air-filter will all reduce the Harrop WHP.

[last1left]

I've been looking at the ESS kits but after reading this thread entirely it seems like this kit is a better option thank you all for the data

[Bakerboy]

thanks M3post

I have had a quick look around and cant seem to find those belts in the UK.

I will keep looking but might have to import if its the best solution, do you think the tensioner is unlikely to be weak? there not cheap item to replace for what they are.

Thanks

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

The kit is supposed to produce between 500-530 whp depending on fuel and exhaust changes. [/url]

A Dyno Dynamics will read lower than a dyno jet. Not all Harrop kits read over 500rwhp+ on a dynojet it seems.

Did you do a before dyno?

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by tdott

A Dyno Dynamics will read lower than a dyno jet. Not all Harrop kits read over 500rwhp+ on a dynojet it seems.

Did you do a before dyno?

I hear you man, but it’s so far away, I think I can rule out it just being dyno differences.

He had a f10 m5 on the dyno a few days before and it did 707hp at fly with decats and a tune if that’s anything to go by.

The cars AFR is super rich and would be interested to know other peoples as it could be a by product of underboosting.

The boost gauge will certainly bring to light any flutuations. The high rpm miss doesn’t have any codes when scanned after. The belt could the least I do as the belt has covered 15k miles already as the kit isn’t new as stated already.

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by M3Post

The Conti Elite Pro belts are available from Amazon.

The belt tensioner condition depends upon age and mileage. If you decide to replace the belt, I think it's cheap insurance to replace the tensioner just to rule it out and as a preventative measure.

ECSTuning is where I got mine. I think it was about ~$150.

PS: The Harrop SC Belt slip/chirp sound is annoying - but I lived with mine for a year or so.

Right I have ordered the belt, thanks m3 post!

Will turn up end of next week hopefully before. In the mean time I will do some boost checks once the gauge arrives.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

He had a f10 m5 on the dyno a few days before and it did 707hp at fly with decats and a tune if that’s anything to go by.

Those engine hp figures are crap, I wouldn't judge anything from them.

Only compare rwhp figures from the same dyno.

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by tdott

Those engine hp figures are crap, I wouldn't judge anything from them.

Only compare rwhp figures from the same dyno.

The drag is worked out from deceleration I don’t see how it can be wrong, it’s doing the same as how it reads the whp in reverse then adds the extra from drag.

It’s industry standard here in U.K., for me personally I prefer whp but hey don’t hate the player hate the game.

[Yoko22R]

I'll throw my dyno out there for reference. Harrop SC, AA HIGH FLOW CATS, custom x pipe/exhaust. Dyno done at EAS.

511whp, 364tq

[M.Hagen]

It seems everyone's graphs have the same dip after 5500 RPM that I do.

Reviewing logs it appears the main correlating parameter is the ignition timing. It has a big surge of timing between 4000 and 5500 RPM, then dives off a cliff.

It appears the tune is very conservative after 5500 RPM, which an off-the-shelf tune should be. But that also means there is plenty of room for increasing >5500 RPM power if you have the octane to support.

This graph is with 30% ethanol, so ignition should be running w/o knock retard.

(I am 100% stock minus the Harrop TVS1740, K&N Filter and Megan rear section)

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by M.Hagen

It seems everyone's graphs have the same dip after 5500 RPM that I do.

Reviewing logs it appears the main correlating parameter is the ignition timing. It has a big surge of timing between 4000 and 5500 RPM, then dives off a cliff.

It appears the tune is very conservative after 5500 RPM, which an off-the-shelf tune should be. But that also means there is plenty of room for increasing >5500 RPM power if you have the octane to support.

This graph is with 30% ethanol, so ignition should be running w/o knock retard.

(I am 100% stock minus the Harrop TVS1740, K&N Filter and Megan rear section)

What did you use to log timing?

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by M.Hagen

It seems everyone's graphs have the same dip after 5500 RPM that I do.

Reviewing logs it appears the main correlating parameter is the ignition timing. It has a big surge of timing between 4000 and 5500 RPM, then dives off a cliff.

It appears the tune is very conservative after 5500 RPM, which an off-the-shelf tune should be. But that also means there is plenty of room for increasing >5500 RPM power if you have the octane to support.

This graph is with 30% ethanol, so ignition should be running w/o knock retard.

(I am 100% stock minus the Harrop TVS1740, K&N Filter and Megan rear section)

Thanks for posting M. Hagen

What's interesting is your AFR does not drop below 12:1 and stays quite steady, mine goes dips under 12:1 from 4k and then falls off a cliff after 5k and goes into high 10s. This is what I predicted since seeing my AFR readings, you have just confirmed it.

Boost gauge arrived today, will hook it up tonight so I can hopefully see a bit more of what's going on. The continental belt will be here next week aswell, I think the belt is slipping!!

If that doesn't work then next port of call is plugs but I find this unlikely without any misfire codes.

[pbonsalb]

Great low to midrange torque on the Harrops kits! As expected from a positive displacement blower.