Stock brakes suitable for occasional track use?

mmm_03 · 09-24-2010, 02:00 AM

Hi Guys! Pardon my ignorance, I'm a newbie when it comes to brakes, and wanted to ask if anyone has tracked their car using just stock brakes? Is it dangerous? I plan to bring my M3 to the track soon just to get a glimpse of the M3's track performance, but I don't intend to drive all out or very aggressively. My car is fairly new and just done the required Bmw service after 1200 miles break-in. Thanks in advance!

LateBraking · 09-24-2010, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmm_03

Is it dangerous?

Not really. The need for more demanding brakes will come with the need to get more out of your vehicle, which will come with an increase in skill level.

And really, the OEM BMW brakes are pretty capable, though the usual recommended upgrades are pads and fluids (and lines).

mmm_03 · 09-24-2010, 02:48 AM

And really, the OEM BMW brakes are pretty capable, though the usual recommended upgrades are pads and fluids (and lines).[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your inputs and advise. Greatly appreciated. I do plan to go that upgrade route when my track skill level improves as well. I have already decided to go with Stop Tech's Street Performance Brake Pads, Stop Tech's SS brake lines and Motul RBF600. I think this should satisfy my needs in the future.

MysticBlue · 09-24-2010, 03:56 AM

If you are just beginning and won't be pushing it to the limit, brakes definitely won't be a problem. Brakes were the limiting factor on my Z4M, but I've had the M3 at the same track a couple of times now, pushing it just as hard, and had no brake issues. The weakest link last time I was there (besides the driver) was tires. Tires definitely got a little greasy feeling as they heated up late in the day, but didn't have any change in brake feeling.

pride355 · 09-24-2010, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticBlue

If you are just beginning and won't be pushing it to the limit, brakes definitely won't be a problem. Brakes were the limiting factor on my Z4M, but I've had the M3 at the same track a couple of times now, pushing it just as hard, and had no brake issues. The weakest link last time I was there (besides the driver) was tires. Tires definitely got a little greasy feeling as they heated up late in the day, but didn't have any change in brake feeling.

I didn't expect this; this is good news, then

JC919 · 09-24-2010, 07:23 AM

I ran about four or five track days with my M3 before upgrading the stock brakes with SS lines, fluid, and track specific pads. Other than a fair amount of fade towards the end of the later sessions (hot TX weather made this worse) the stock brakes were definitely manageable. As many have stated, demand for greater brake performance comes with increased skill level. That being said, those three modifications I mentioned before are relatively cheap.

LiM3y · 09-24-2010, 08:16 AM

^^^^
+1

I am not sure how this is going to go down with the aficionados, but when it is time to swap pads, get track pads for the track and use the stock pads for the street, i.e. use each pad for the purpose it was designed for. The car is pretty heavy and needs some heavy duty hardware to get it stopped, otherwise you won't get the most out of the car with 'performance' street pads

Even with the track pads, I think you pay for what you get. I am only driving intermediate and I could tell the difference between a "premium" track pad (Performance Friction) and a more "value" pad (Hawk DTC70). I felt supremely confident with Performance Friction PF-01s, but a little leery of the Hawks when they got hot.

[INCOMING! DUCK!]

elh0102 · 09-24-2010, 08:26 AM

I recommend using the OE pads for at least your first track weekend. If it's something you want to continue, then there is no downside to going with track pads at that point, other than the time and expense involved. At that point, go with a good race pad, not any of the so called dual purpose or high performance street pads, and switch to a high temp brake fluid.

aus · 09-24-2010, 09:19 AM

THere's no way a track newb needs to change anything out... unless he's the next coming of Senna or Schummy.

Dntlvet · 09-24-2010, 09:25 AM

Great information!

GTM_Challenge · 09-24-2010, 10:05 AM

If it is your first time on track ever, you likely wont be able to push the car beyond its oem brakes capacity. After that, you should step it up to at least mid level track pad and fluids. just because you CAN "get by" with stock stuff, doesnt mean you SHOULD. Its always better to not find that limit, then all of a sudden you have no brakes or boiled the fluid. Piece of mind is worth alot, especially when tracking your 70k M3. I have a seen a few guys at HPDE events learn this the hard way, including my own brother years ago.

mpegripper · 09-24-2010, 12:25 PM

imo, track newbies usually don't need upgraded brakes or they really really need them cuz they are riding the brakes and braking way too early (read: staying on the brakes too long). if its your first event, you can probably stick with oem, as you progress you will have to upgrade things.

also, in my opinion, don't go with the stoptech pads, get something better for track events and use oem or the stoptech pads for the street. my first track pads were ferodo ds2500s and after a few track days under my belt i quickly outgrew those to the point where they started to melt, keep in mind that these are better track pads than the stoptechs and this was in a lighter e46 m3.

i eventually was forced into a bbk and much more aggressive pads, but i'm sure you are pretty far away from that point

garek · 09-24-2010, 01:00 PM

I agree with everybody else. You'll be fine with OEM brakes/pads for your first time out. However, if you decide to start tracking the car more often, the first upgrade you'll want to make is to get a set of track pads and some steel braided brake lines and some high temp brake fluid. There are DIY threads for changing the pads and fluid on this board which are quite helpful.

IMO, the weak link on this car, as far as tracking is concerned, is the brakes. And unfortunately, they are also critical for getting around a track safely. So upgrading the parts of the brake system is something to seriously consider once you get a little faster. If you get even faster, then it may time to consider a BBK.

mmm_03 · 09-25-2010, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticBlue

If you are just beginning and won't be pushing it to the limit, brakes definitely won't be a problem. Brakes were the limiting factor on my Z4M, but I've had the M3 at the same track a couple of times now, pushing it just as hard, and had no brake issues. The weakest link last time I was there (besides the driver) was tires. Tires definitely got a little greasy feeling as they heated up late in the day, but didn't have any change in brake feeling.

Thanks MysticBlue! Your inputs and observations are indeed very helpful! Can't wait to bring my M3 to the track soon.

mmm_03 · 09-25-2010, 12:19 AM

Thanks to everyone who chimed in!

All your inputs are highly appreciated and makes perfect sense! Yes, I am definitely a newbie on track and will surely be more cautious on my first drive. Once I start to get the hang of it and get some expert advice from track experts, will definitely go for the SS lines, Pads and fluids!

09-24-2010, 02:00 AM	#1
mmm_03 Private 15 Rep 74 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: ph iTrader: (0)	Stock brakes suitable for occasional track use? Hi Guys! Pardon my ignorance, I'm a newbie when it comes to brakes, and wanted to ask if anyone has tracked their car using just stock brakes? Is it dangerous? I plan to bring my M3 to the track soon just to get a glimpse of the M3's track performance, but I don't intend to drive all out or very aggressively. My car is fairly new and just done the required Bmw service after 1200 miles break-in. Thanks in advance!
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09-24-2010, 02:48 AM	#3
mmm_03 Private 15 Rep 74 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: ph iTrader: (0)	And really, the OEM BMW brakes are pretty capable, though the usual recommended upgrades are pads and fluids (and lines).[/QUOTE] Thanks for your inputs and advise. Greatly appreciated. I do plan to go that upgrade route when my track skill level improves as well. I have already decided to go with Stop Tech's Street Performance Brake Pads, Stop Tech's SS brake lines and Motul RBF600. I think this should satisfy my needs in the future.
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09-24-2010, 03:56 AM	#4
MysticBlue Lieutenant Colonel 369 Rep 1,887 Posts Drives: '20 M5C, '09 M3 DCT Coupe Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Eastern Oregon... They call 'em rigs here iTrader: (0)	If you are just beginning and won't be pushing it to the limit, brakes definitely won't be a problem. Brakes were the limiting factor on my Z4M, but I've had the M3 at the same track a couple of times now, pushing it just as hard, and had no brake issues. The weakest link last time I was there (besides the driver) was tires. Tires definitely got a little greasy feeling as they heated up late in the day, but didn't have any change in brake feeling.
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09-24-2010, 07:23 AM	#6
JC919 Lieutenant Colonel 72 Rep 1,803 Posts Drives: CSL Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland iTrader: (0)	I ran about four or five track days with my M3 before upgrading the stock brakes with SS lines, fluid, and track specific pads. Other than a fair amount of fade towards the end of the later sessions (hot TX weather made this worse) the stock brakes were definitely manageable. As many have stated, demand for greater brake performance comes with increased skill level. That being said, those three modifications I mentioned before are relatively cheap. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 2007 GT3 Clubsport w/CGT buckets in Scotland 2003 CSL, SG, Alcon BBK SOLD 2002 M5, SSII/Blk and bone stock. In storage back home in TX 2008 M3, AW/Blk 6MT, lots of track stuff SOLD
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09-24-2010, 08:16 AM	#7
LiM3y Major 70 Rep 1,339 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (5)	^^^^ +1 I am not sure how this is going to go down with the aficionados, but when it is time to swap pads, get track pads for the track and use the stock pads for the street, i.e. use each pad for the purpose it was designed for. The car is pretty heavy and needs some heavy duty hardware to get it stopped, otherwise you won't get the most out of the car with 'performance' street pads Even with the track pads, I think you pay for what you get. I am only driving intermediate and I could tell the difference between a "premium" track pad (Performance Friction) and a more "value" pad (Hawk DTC70). I felt supremely confident with Performance Friction PF-01s, but a little leery of the Hawks when they got hot. [INCOMING! DUCK!]
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09-24-2010, 08:26 AM	#8
elh0102 Captain 15 Rep 751 Posts Drives: 2009 335i coupe Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	I recommend using the OE pads for at least your first track weekend. If it's something you want to continue, then there is no downside to going with track pads at that point, other than the time and expense involved. At that point, go with a good race pad, not any of the so called dual purpose or high performance street pads, and switch to a high temp brake fluid.
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09-24-2010, 09:19 AM	#9
aus Major General 892 Rep 9,032 Posts Drives: Odysse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seal Beach, CA iTrader: (10)	THere's no way a track newb needs to change anything out... unless he's the next coming of Senna or Schummy. __________________ Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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09-24-2010, 09:25 AM	#10
Dntlvet Dntlvet 11 Rep 447 Posts Drives: 10 M3 Sedan,13 GT-R BE,13 Pors Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Wisconsin iTrader: (0)	Great information!
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09-24-2010, 10:05 AM	#11
GTM_Challenge 272 Rep 2,946 Posts Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nashville iTrader: (7)	If it is your first time on track ever, you likely wont be able to push the car beyond its oem brakes capacity. After that, you should step it up to at least mid level track pad and fluids. just because you CAN "get by" with stock stuff, doesnt mean you SHOULD. Its always better to not find that limit, then all of a sudden you have no brakes or boiled the fluid. Piece of mind is worth alot, especially when tracking your 70k M3. I have a seen a few guys at HPDE events learn this the hard way, including my own brother years ago. Last edited by GTM_Challenge; 09-24-2010 at 10:13 AM..
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09-24-2010, 12:25 PM	#12
mpegripper Private 0 Rep 54 Posts Drives: E46 M3 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: San Jose iTrader: (0)	imo, track newbies usually don't need upgraded brakes or they really really need them cuz they are riding the brakes and braking way too early (read: staying on the brakes too long). if its your first event, you can probably stick with oem, as you progress you will have to upgrade things. also, in my opinion, don't go with the stoptech pads, get something better for track events and use oem or the stoptech pads for the street. my first track pads were ferodo ds2500s and after a few track days under my belt i quickly outgrew those to the point where they started to melt, keep in mind that these are better track pads than the stoptechs and this was in a lighter e46 m3. i eventually was forced into a bbk and much more aggressive pads, but i'm sure you are pretty far away from that point __________________
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09-24-2010, 01:00 PM	#13
garek Second Lieutenant 10 Rep 287 Posts Drives: 09 E90 M3 DCT Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Arizona iTrader: (0)	I agree with everybody else. You'll be fine with OEM brakes/pads for your first time out. However, if you decide to start tracking the car more often, the first upgrade you'll want to make is to get a set of track pads and some steel braided brake lines and some high temp brake fluid. There are DIY threads for changing the pads and fluid on this board which are quite helpful. IMO, the weak link on this car, as far as tracking is concerned, is the brakes. And unfortunately, they are also critical for getting around a track safely. So upgrading the parts of the brake system is something to seriously consider once you get a little faster. If you get even faster, then it may time to consider a BBK. __________________ ///M3 E90 '09 Le Mans Blue \| DCT \| Silver Novillo \| Tech \| Prem \| 19"s \| Prem Sound \| iPod StopTech BBK \| Volk VR.G2 \| H&R Sport Springs
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09-25-2010, 12:19 AM	#15
mmm_03 Private 15 Rep 74 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: ph iTrader: (0)	Thanks to everyone who chimed in! All your inputs are highly appreciated and makes perfect sense! Yes, I am definitely a newbie on track and will surely be more cautious on my first drive. Once I start to get the hang of it and get some expert advice from track experts, will definitely go for the SS lines, Pads and fluids!
	Appreciate 0 Quote