Those Who Test Drove 6MT - Clutch Pedal/Tranny Feel

[!Xoible]

i read mixed reviews on the feel of the clutch pedal and tranny in general. Some said it's really smooth and soft and doesnt jerk at all, and some said it's notchy.

I want to know from those who have driven M3 6MT how does the car feel compared to 335, or compared to the Z4M.

To me 335 has a perfect feel of clutch/tranny in general except maybe the long throw shift.

im looking for "feel", jerkiness, notchiness (that's not a word, is it?), etc..

[lucid]

The M3 and the 335 are supposed to use pretty much the same transmission. I drove the 335, and it was fine. Maybe someone who has driven both cars can comment?

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by lucid

The M3 and the 335 are supposed to use pretty much the same transmission. I drove the 335, and it was fine. Maybe someone who has driven both cars can comment?

335's clutch is perfect for what i like. one of the best clutches i have driven.

bmw states they have a heavy duty setup on the M3 which is different than 335's. and if you notice, the Z4M's clutch is a bit less forgiving than 335's, you need to be precise with it. not as bad as my old G35, or older porsche's. So im guessing more sporty = more rough although i'd still prefer the feel of 335's.

+1 on someone who's driven both please chime in

[!Xoible]

[Hammer]

I cant compare it to the 335i clutch(just drove automatic). but maybe i ll review my m3 testdrive under clutchaspects here.

When i started the car, my cardealer explained me that the clutch would couple pretty fast ( a short range to do it). when i ´d been driving, it feeled pretty agressive ( compared to porsche caymanS) to couple in the first/2nd gear. Chaning gears while driving was simple and smooth, but to get the car rolling without any jumpforward or killing the enginge seemed to be difficult. i d say, it´s just a question of habituation

[southlight]

Two different aspects on the subject:
Like Hammer said the clutch 'bites' quite early during the pedal's travel (I'd say within the first third of entire travel), one has to adapt to it some time. But once customized (IMO one or two days at the most) you'll be used to it. Another difference to the 335i is the fact that the M3 uses a double plate clutch which means less effort needed to push the pedal.

Another story is the gear change itself: When the car's new it's possible that you're slightly disappointed because some gear changes appear to be kinda notchy (especially 1-2 and sometimes 3-2), IIRC jerkier than the 335's gear changes feel. But this notchiness will almost fully be gone after 1-2k miles of wearing in. In general the M3's shifter shows the tendency to be smoother at higher revs and less smooth when shifting up at let's say 3k rpm.

Hope this helps.


Best regards, south

[!Xoible]

so lower engaging point, is what you mean by bites early? i can definitely live with that for sure.

as for the jerkiness, i hope what you're saying is true. I had a G35 and man everyone agrees that even after years of driving that car you wont get it 100% in terms of 1st-2nd. from what you're describing it seems the feel will be similar to Z4M's but gears engage before my knee actually touches the steering wheel

and I'm definitely buying into what you said about smoother shifts at higher RPM's. i can see me telling the cop "im speeding to make my shifts smoother, officer"

[southlight]

Originally Posted by mantis

so lower engaging point, is what you mean by bites early? i can definitely live with that for sure.

Yes.

as for the jerkiness, i hope what you're saying is true. I had a G35 and man everyone agrees that even after years of driving that car you wont get it 100% in terms of 1st-2nd. from what you're describing it seems the feel will be similar to Z4M's but gears engage before my knee actually touches the steering wheel

1st to 2nd isn't always perfectly smooth, but 9 out of 10 I'd say (after the run in period).
3rd gear and up never is a problem, though.

and I'm definitely buying into what you said about smoother shifts at higher RPM's. i can see me telling the cop "im speeding to make my shifts smoother, officer"

Good excuse I'd say. The officer might disagree.


Best regards, south

[edlms]

haven't driven the 335 manual so can't compare.
however, i've got slightly more than 8000km now and the clutch/tranny has certainly loosened up since I first got the car.

the "bite" point when the clutch first engages is quite low (accurately described by southlight - around one third of total travel) and frankly, the pedal is quite light and easy to modulate with the throttle. Almost japanese car-like clutch pedal...

point to note is that the tranny feels smoother at higher revs. at lower revs, it can feel a bit notchy especially between 1 and 2.

cheers.

[VictorH]

So you want opinions from the people who've actually driven the M3. I'm sure every vehicle (each M3) is a little different. I drove an M3 in Germany for about 45 minutes this past December. I can not compare to the 335 but I have driven the 328 manual if that's any help.
So, first the clutch. Take up is very linear and the engagment is about at the mid point of the throw. On some cars you have to get "used to" where the take up point is on the car, not on the M3, it's very natural with no learning curve. The engagement point is also wide enough so that you really don't risk killing the motor because the clutch is either "off" or "on." It just feels like a really nice hydraulic unit.
Now the tranny. I think the throws are nice, could be a little bit shorter but really just fine. On this particular vehicle when you engaged 2nd gear, if you didn't give it a little pause, it would be notchy. My guess is with milage this will resolve. Each of the other gears were very nice, smooth, easy to engage and direct. Overall, I think no faults at all with the clutch and drivetrain engagement. Now, compared to my friend's 328 manual, I think they are pretty similar. That's not a criticism, I think they are both very nice. I have a less favorable opinion about steering feel, but you didn't ask about that. It's a really nice car and fun to drive.

[highwaystardoritos]

when I test drove the M3 this is what I said about it:

"The only only only thing i hate about the m3 is the shifter. I'm spoiled with the shifter on the S2000. Theres nothing like it. The throws are fall too long, the clutch pedal travel was too long."

Short Shifter, CDV removal, and a shifter knob would make the shifting feel a hell of a lot better

[Romo]

I can compare the E46 M3 and the E92 M3 MT

E46 M3

-Heavy clutch
-Gear change from X-2 not verry smooth, only way IMHO too solve this is to keep the foot a little bit on the gas, so it doesn t drop RPM too far down, this realy does the job
-It is a precise job to change all gears, you will find out when you are tired or less concentrated,........................


E92 M3

-Much lighter clutch
-Verry nice gear change, even 2nd gear isn t that jerky
-Overall huge improvement over the E46 M3 MT, I liked it far more better then my own E46 M3
I must say, I will try the M/DCT

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by edlms

haven't driven the 335 manual so can't compare.
however, i've got slightly more than 8000km now and the clutch/tranny has certainly loosened up since I first got the car.

the "bite" point when the clutch first engages is quite low (accurately described by southlight - around one third of total travel) and frankly, the pedal is quite light and easy to modulate with the throttle. Almost japanese car-like clutch pedal...

point to note is that the tranny feels smoother at higher revs. at lower revs, it can feel a bit notchy especially between 1 and 2.

cheers.

thanks! good post. however, some japanese cars have really heavy clutches.

Originally Posted by VictorH

So you want opinions from the people who've actually driven the M3. I'm sure every vehicle (each M3) is a little different. I drove an M3 in Germany for about 45 minutes this past December. I can not compare to the 335 but I have driven the 328 manual if that's any help.
So, first the clutch. Take up is very linear and the engagment is about at the mid point of the throw. On some cars you have to get "used to" where the take up point is on the car, not on the M3, it's very natural with no learning curve. The engagement point is also wide enough so that you really don't risk killing the motor because the clutch is either "off" or "on." It just feels like a really nice hydraulic unit.
Now the tranny. I think the throws are nice, could be a little bit shorter but really just fine. On this particular vehicle when you engaged 2nd gear, if you didn't give it a little pause, it would be notchy. My guess is with milage this will resolve. Each of the other gears were very nice, smooth, easy to engage and direct. Overall, I think no faults at all with the clutch and drivetrain engagement. Now, compared to my friend's 328 manual, I think they are pretty similar. That's not a criticism, I think they are both very nice. I have a less favorable opinion about steering feel, but you didn't ask about that. It's a really nice car and fun to drive.

nice! that makes me feel less worried about the clutch now

Originally Posted by djdorifto

when I test drove the M3 this is what I said about it:

"The only only only thing i hate about the m3 is the shifter. I'm spoiled with the shifter on the S2000. Theres nothing like it. The throws are fall too long, the clutch pedal travel was too long."

Short Shifter, CDV removal, and a shifter knob would make the shifting feel a hell of a lot better

S2k's shift is insane lol, i just bought the ssk lever + knob a few weeks ago, they should ship in a couple of weeks

Originally Posted by Romo

I can compare the E46 M3 and the E92 M3 MT

E46 M3

-Heavy clutch
-Gear change from X-2 not verry smooth, only way IMHO too solve this is to keep the foot a little bit on the gas, so it doesn t drop RPM too far down, this realy does the job
-It is a precise job to change all gears, you will find out when you are tired or less concentrated,........................


E92 M3

-Much lighter clutch
-Verry nice gear change, even 2nd gear isn t that jerky
-Overall huge improvement over the E46 M3 MT, I liked it far more better then my own E46 M3
I must say, I will try the M/DCT

[Nucking Futs!]

Originally Posted by VictorH

So you want opinions from the people who've actually driven the M3. I'm sure every vehicle (each M3) is a little different. I drove an M3 in Germany for about 45 minutes this past December. I can not compare to the 335 but I have driven the 328 manual if that's any help.
So, first the clutch. Take up is very linear and the engagment is about at the mid point of the throw. On some cars you have to get "used to" where the take up point is on the car, not on the M3, it's very natural with no learning curve. The engagement point is also wide enough so that you really don't risk killing the motor because the clutch is either "off" or "on." It just feels like a really nice hydraulic unit.
Now the tranny. I think the throws are nice, could be a little bit shorter but really just fine. On this particular vehicle when you engaged 2nd gear, if you didn't give it a little pause, it would be notchy. My guess is with milage this will resolve. Each of the other gears were very nice, smooth, easy to engage and direct. Overall, I think no faults at all with the clutch and drivetrain engagement. Now, compared to my friend's 328 manual, I think they are pretty similar. That's not a criticism, I think they are both very nice. I have a less favorable opinion about steering feel, but you didn't ask about that. It's a really nice car and fun to drive.

Thx for the info. I just test drove a 328i manual yesterday & absolutely hated the shifter for the same reason below. Once you try the S2000's shifter, there's nothing else (besides high-end exotics I've never tried) as good as it.

Originally Posted by djdorifto

when I test drove the M3 this is what I said about it:

"The only only only thing i hate about the m3 is the shifter. I'm spoiled with the shifter on the S2000. Theres nothing like it. The throws are fall too long, the clutch pedal travel was too long."

Short Shifter, CDV removal, and a shifter knob would make the shifting feel a hell of a lot better

Agreed! BMW shifter's are just plain blah (e46 M3, e60 M5 & e90 328i specifically)! I even tried an e46 M3 w/a short-shift kit & it was better...but still blah. I'm glad I ordered the DCT.

[GewoW]

any short-shift kit for the e92 M3? dealer part? aftermarket? cost? thx

[!Xoible]

not yet! i have bought the 330's ssk LEVER only, i bought it for the 335, but i want to try to fit it on the M3. i'll probably be the first to do it. maybe!

i'll let you know. i got it from tischer for 60 bucks, ssk LEVER only

[GewoW]

Originally Posted by mantis

not yet! i have bought the 330's ssk LEVER only, i bought it for the 335, but i want to try to fit it on the M3. i'll probably be the first to do it. maybe!

i'll let you know. i got it from tischer for 60 bucks, ssk LEVER only

please do, that would be much appreciated!

[edlms]

Originally Posted by VictorH

So you want opinions from the people who've actually driven the M3. I'm sure every vehicle (each M3) is a little different. I drove an M3 in Germany for about 45 minutes this past December. I can not compare to the 335 but I have driven the 328 manual if that's any help.
So, first the clutch. Take up is very linear and the engagment is about at the mid point of the throw. On some cars you have to get "used to" where the take up point is on the car, not on the M3, it's very natural with no learning curve. The engagement point is also wide enough so that you really don't risk killing the motor because the clutch is either "off" or "on." It just feels like a really nice hydraulic unit.
Now the tranny. I think the throws are nice, could be a little bit shorter but really just fine. On this particular vehicle when you engaged 2nd gear, if you didn't give it a little pause, it would be notchy. My guess is with milage this will resolve. Each of the other gears were very nice, smooth, easy to engage and direct. Overall, I think no faults at all with the clutch and drivetrain engagement. Now, compared to my friend's 328 manual, I think they are pretty similar. That's not a criticism, I think they are both very nice. I have a less favorable opinion about steering feel, but you didn't ask about that. It's a really nice car and fun to drive.

good post.
i agree with you, especially about having to "pause" between first and second. more than 8000km todate, but this doesn't seem to have improved though.

i'm also actively looking for a short shifter kit cos the throws are a bit too long for my liking. so far, the BMW Performance Parts catalogue has one, but apparently it fits only the e9x non-M cars. But i'll be glad to be wrong on this.

AC has a kit also, but made by Aachen. You can see this on their site which states this. I can't seem to get my hands on one though.

The stock shift knob also feels rubbery, especially if you grip the top and exert some force to shift into reverse, so for now, it seems i'll have to make do with a shorter shift knob that the 335 m-sport package has... sigh...

cheers

[gmund1948]

The shifter, transmission and clutch are totally different feel than the 335 I
have 7,000K on our e93 Vert 6MN ZSP,

The 335 has a much lighter engagement point than the M3, Overall the M3
Box "feels" much more durable and heavy duty than the 335.

The M3 takes effort to shift, but is positive, and is a bit easier than my 08 Corvette. considering its Horsepower rating I was pleased by the M-3
It feels like it will last. I drove 20 or more hot laps and only the second
gear take-off was not smooth, the trans never missed a beat downshifting or upshifting on the track. It was especially strong feeling on the track.

I drove one the other day for 45 minutes and it was only a bit jerky with the take off but with 2k on it I feel like I would get used to it. downshifts are very positive.

It wont be a super speed shifting box but up to definate track work.



The ratios are better than expected as well,