Oil Temperature to high?

[pbonsalb]

Temps may drop slightly on the highway due to increased airflow. Cars tend to run hotter driving around town, where they depend on their cooling fans, which cycle on and off. Certainly on a higher mileage car there could be cooler fin damage. The radiator is protected somewhat by the AC condenser but other coolers may be more exposed. If your street driving temps were 250F rather than the very common 210 or 220, there would be cause for concern, but it appears in your case that any efficiency loss is minimal.

[bosse92m3]

Originally Posted by bmwpower603

Normal.

How many miles?

Mine goes that high or higher at 85F Outside.

How much higher did it go than that?

(Check the fins on your rad, and oil cooler rads)

About 70,000 miles, didn't get much over that, I ll check the fins.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by bmwpower603

Well, I’m my case. I drive the car hard, and temps stay down. Drive moderately, around town or idle and temps go higher. With that being said, I made my assumption based on that. To say it’s not bullet proof or well designed? It’s the last naturally aspirated V8 bmw will ever make. It’s good. Very good. Better than the e39 m5, and the best NA v8 bmw has ever released. BMW is second to none when it comes to being able to diagnose engines properly, and finding the cause of every issue.

So driving the car hard, and temps staying down.

Then driving the car normal, and at idle sometimes it pops up.

More oil flow through the mains while driving hard.

Less oil flow while idle, or normal operation.

This tells me temperature increase due to worn mains.

(It could be the radiator fins) But unlikely.

You're preaching in the desert, i know this engine from the day it was first announced, white papers, all the technical literature on it, ... It does not come close to any 6 cyl Porsche engine in reliability. It may be the best of what bmw could do, but nothing more. It is the antithesis of bulletproof and has the reputation for being a great sounding but flawed design. The shit hit the fan in 2010-11 when people realized it was a random ticking bomb. This engine brought fear to buyers and this is why it devalued faster than any prior M3.
As for your theory about worn main bearings causing the temperature to pop in normal driving. First, bearing shouldn't be worn, there is a main (no pun) design flaw with this engine. And no, your main bearings are not more worn because of previous owner less than excessive oil change, as i already told you, I changed my oil 3K, 5K since factory delivery and mine pop temperature as well in hot summer days around town.

FYI BMW released this engine claiming that regular oil change interval would be 30k (yes that's insane!) that gives an idea of how far apart their design's expectation and the reality is. There has been speculation that the dual oil pump is not up to the task of cooling this engine and there was a bespoke aftermarket dry sump modification sold for it, i can't find the link right now.

Meanwhile everybody knows about RB and S65 but BMW is still denying it, how good a design is that ? Also read this :

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by Rajmun340

You're preaching in the desert, i know this engine from the day it was first announced, white papers, all the technical literature on it, ... It does not come close to any 6 cyl Porsche engine in reliability. It may be the best of what bmw could do, but nothing more. It is the antithesis of bulletproof and has the reputation for being a great sounding but flawed design. The shit hit the fan in 2010-11 when people realized it was a random ticking bomb. This engine brought fear to buyers and this is why it devalued faster than any prior M3.
As for your theory about worn main bearings causing the temperature to pop in normal driving. First, bearing shouldn't be worn, there is a main (no pun) design flaw with this engine. And no, your main bearings are not more worn because of previous owner less than excessive oil change, as i already told you, I changed my oil 3K, 5K since factory delivery and mine pop temperature as well in hot summer days around town.

FYI BMW released this engine claiming that regular oil change interval would be 30k (yes that's insane!) that gives an idea of how far apart their design's expectation and the reality is. There has been speculation that the dual oil pump is not up to the task of cooling this engine and there was a bespoke aftermarket dry sump modification sold for it, i can't find the link right now.

Meanwhile everybody knows about RB and S65 but BMW is still denying it, how good a design is that ? Also read this :

Porsche is not perfect either. The 996 IMS flaw has made the value of the 996 drop significantly, even though it can be fixed quite easily.

I am unsure regarding the argument that the oil pump is incapable of cooling the engine. Looking at the flow numbers presented in the AutoTalent bearing thread, it suggests that the oil pump is quite capable of producing adequate oil flow across all RPM ranges as long as the rod bearings are not too tight.

I am not saying BMW did not make some mistakes on the S65 (and S85), but I do not think things are as serious as you make them out to be.

Cheers,

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Rajmun340

You're preaching in the desert, i know this engine from the day it was first announced, white papers, all the technical literature on it, ... It does not come close to any 6 cyl Porsche engine in reliability. It may be the best of what bmw could do, but nothing more. It is the antithesis of bulletproof and has the reputation for being a great sounding but flawed design. The shit hit the fan in 2010-11 when people realized it was a random ticking bomb. This engine brought fear to buyers and this is why it devalued faster than any prior M3.

Bit unfair in my book. Im guessing a good number of the 65k produced M3 are still running happy out there on original rod bearings, 8, 10, 12 years old with 50k, 100k, 150k miles. Some replaced TAs, yes not a good design, and other bits but to suggest its a overal crap engine I think is wrong. In my view quite the contrary actually!

[bmwpower603]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Bit unfair in my book. Im guessing a good number of the 65k produced M3 are still running happy out there on original rod bearings, 8, 10, 12 years old with 50k, 100k, 150k miles. Some replaced TAs, yes not a good design, and other bits but to suggest its a overal crap engine I think is wrong. In my view quite the contrary actually!

Was the main bearing issue most commonly prone to failure at 100k , and under?


The law suite that the porsche fan boy linked states:

The engine defect is alleged to manifest itself during and shortly after the limited warranty period for the vehicles.

Once you hit higher miles, it shows that your mains are sustainable/ solid? And your rotating assembly should be fine?

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

Porsche is not perfect either. The 996 IMS flaw has made the value of the 996 drop significantly, even though it can be fixed quite easily.

I am unsure regarding the argument that the oil pump is incapable of cooling the engine. Looking at the flow numbers presented in the AutoTalent bearing thread, it suggests that the oil pump is quite capable of producing adequate oil flow across all RPM ranges as long as the rod bearings are not too tight.

I am not saying BMW did not make some mistakes on the S65 (and S85), but I do not think things are as serious as you make them out to be.

Cheers,

a. IMF affected Porsche engines from 1996-2008. By 2008 Porsche stopped using sealed ball bearings inside their engines.
BMW's MB/RB engine failures is a 2008-2013 issue for the M3 (actually the E46 M3 experienced engine bearing failures too but much less), 2005 if you count the S85.
Comparing the S65 to P engines of the same age/gen as I did, the latter are more reliable. it would be disingenuous to say otherwise.

b. Please don't shift terms in the discussion. "not quite up to the task" is not the same as "incapable". And that dual oil pump system speculation was not mine (i have my own S65 design flaw theory), rather it illustrated that the market was left in a state of confusion as to the cause of S65 failures, and non-existent permanent fix, increasing buying fear and accelerating the model depreciation. Even the current bandaid RB replacement is not a root cause fix. Also the main oil pump can only produce as much oil flow as it is supplied with by the scavenger duo-centric second pump.

c. It's easy to say it's not a big deal if you are not affected, when your engine bombs and bmw is refusing to swap it free, you will change your viewpoint. It's never serious until you're affected.

d. Indulgence is earned if the manufacturer stands behind their car especially when the failure rate is estimated at >1% (which is enormous by 6 sigma engineering standards) by making sure owners who are affected get their engine replaced at no cost, to restore ALL owners peace of mind in the relatively small community of E9x M3 car owners (especially first and second hand owners who put more than twice in the car). BMW has very much followed an escape strategy instead and has deserted the issue and therefore deserves a strict judgment.

e. BMW circulated a technical bulletin on S65 engine failures in BMW dealership but nothing public to assuage the concerns of owners. How is that for escaping responsibility ?

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by bmwpower603

Was the main bearing issue most commonly prone to failure at 100k , and under?


The law suite that the porsche fan boy linked states:

The engine defect is alleged to manifest itself during and shortly after the limited warranty period for the vehicles.

Once you hit higher miles, it shows that your mains are sustainable/ solid? And your rotating assembly should be fine?

I own a E92 M3. Ownership bias is what fanboyism is about, you qualify.
I don't. S65 failures have occured widely at all miles range from 15k to 150k.

[bmwpower603]

Originally Posted by Rajmun340

I own a E92 M3. Ownership bias is what fanboyism is about, you qualify.
I don't. S65 failures have occured widely at all miles range from 15k to 150k.

My car has 173k miles. And I meticulously maintain it. Have only owned it for 6 months. But love the car. And hope it never has a main bearing failure. I recently had BE bearings installed to prevent those from going. (But I still have the fear of the mains failing) I don’t beat on my m3, and it’s 100% stock. I use ISTA on it religiously. And fix any, and everything that comes up. My question was. Once you get to a certain mileage. Is there any chance of ruling out main bearing failure? If my car goes to 200k with no issues, can I rule that out?

Doing meticulous maintenance will hopefully help my chances of keeping the car going a long time.

I’m a bmw fan boy. And I’m proud of it. My first car being a 1998 318is. Also, have had lots of B5 s4s. Which is porsche influenced. (And i sure love those) But maintaining one is pretty involved.

[pbonsalb]

I’d like to change my main bearings as preventative maintenance. At my 100k, it’s not a priority. It would be an engine out job so I would need some free time to do it.

[bmwpower603]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I’d like to change my main bearings as preventative maintenance. At my 100k, it’s not a priority. It would be an engine out job so I would need some free time to do it.

As long as everything is wearing fine. And the crank is wearing uniformly, and you change out your tensioners I see no need to do main bearings preventatively.

And if you decide to. Can we do the tear down together since you’re in NH as well? Lol

I don’t want to have to do this. But i might consider it at 250k miles.

[pbonsalb]

No one has done it preventatively yet. The failure rate for main bearings might be 1% of that for rod bearings. But I might do it anyway. I will try to remember to let you know if/when.