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11-07-2014, 12:53 PM | #23 | |
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2001 E46 Race Car - S54 Swap - Moton Suspension - CAE Shifter 2011 E90 M3 - ESS VT2-625 Supercharger - Stoptech Trophy BBK - Ohlins Road & Track - MP Exhaust |
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11-07-2014, 04:38 PM | #24 | ||
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11-08-2014, 08:44 PM | #25 |
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The F8x M3/4 clearly fixed a few the issues that plagued the N54/N55 engine setup. Many questioned my BMW Motorsport didnt keep FI engine in their 2014 DTM car. I'll be more interested on seeing how these cars behave after 20-30k which is where I started to have heating issues in my 135. The bigger test of reliability under hard driven 100F weather track condition will be when owners start modding these cars.
Overall, an excellent review. Thanks OP |
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11-09-2014, 08:10 AM | #26 |
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11-09-2014, 04:31 PM | #27 | |
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Still can't wait to see the performance of these engines at 20-40k mark, but totally appreciate the effort and time in giving us good initial reviews |
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11-09-2014, 04:50 PM | #28 |
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I hate to be on the "negative" team but I too know of 4 friends on the east and west coast that had an e9x M that tracked switched to the F8x and sold them in a few weeks and yes I drove my friends cars cause we've had this convo and I agree. A lot of them complained about overheating issues and the distance from "feeling" versus what was in the e9x. Each one of them admits the best was the e46M and that the E9xM was further from that but say the F8x is even further.
On top of all this Road and Track and Car and Driver Magazine evaluations say the F8xM is a great muscle car. Which is funny my track buddies said basically the same.
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11-09-2014, 06:45 PM | #29 | |
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I get better lap times in my relatively stock E90 M3 (Non-EDC,DCT, Dinan Stage II, GC camber plates, 275s on all 4 corners) vs my lightened and modded E46 M3 (stock power). Both on 275 NT01s. My corner speeds are a little lower in my E9X M3 but not by much. I think a lot of people don't like how much more willing the back end will come around in an E9X and most are more comfortable with the E46 where it takes some idiocy to make it oversteer. The biggest difference is the E9X is far more controllable beyond its traction limits than the E46. The E9X is a drift machine! I think the F8X will be more of the same. The E46 is much more of a handful once the rear tires break loose. Its more like work than fun in the E46. Its just FUN in the E9X! If cooling is a problem, I'm sure BMW will address it over the production run.
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11-09-2014, 07:32 PM | #30 | |
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My impressions of the E46 and E92 are eerily similar to yours, having owned and tracked an E46 for 7 years and an E92 for 6. While I truly loved my E46, the E92 was better in all areas, especially the chassis. The E46 was plagued with pretty bad understeer and needed a hell of a lot of camber up front to dial it out. It was trickier to get to oversteer and once you did, you needed to be extra careful to avoid a bad tank slapper. The E92 was much smoother in that respect, with the added power, it was much easier to kick the tail out and once there, it was very easy to control and sustain a drift and then bring it back in line smoothly. The extra weight of the E92 over the E46 could be felt, but the car did not feel any bigger. I am still getting accustomed to the F82, but so far I cannot say I like it better than my E92; but I do like it a lot. The chassis feels nimble and light, the engine is torquey and responsive but the car feels BIG. Going from the E46 to the E92, I just got more of what I liked. The F82 is different from the E92 in so many respects that it does not feel like an evolution of a good formula but more like a brand new experience; so it takes a little longer to get accustomed and comfortable. |
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11-11-2014, 01:39 PM | #31 |
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Thank you for posting your experience
I am seriously considering adding a F80 to the stable as I don't want to track my E92. If I end up tracking it I'll blame bigjae and kaiv! ha I am anxious to see track day experiences with square 275 track rubber, track pads and camber plates. The kind of heat the engine/brakes have to dissipate vary wildly between a 'I'm taking my stock car to the track' to a 'my car is in track mode' users. Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 11-11-2014 at 03:19 PM.. |
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11-12-2014, 04:47 AM | #32 |
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I just made the switch to dedicated track car (for safety and race group)
and bought an e46 fully prepped race car. The previous owner is a suspension guru engineer (previously worked with Turner for their race team) and he setup the car with the bomb Moton suspension, the car has incredible balance. The limit window is huge with a faster reaction time to inputs all around. I'm still getting used to the differences and loving it! Easily controlled 4 wheel slip with nimble lightness that make my E90 feel like a pig. The suspension is key. Stock for stock I agree about what was said between e46 and E9x, but I think the e46 chassis makes for much better track car with the right suspension and setup. Then again I've never driven a fully prepped E9x race car, but from what I've been told it's hard to get the weight down and I think size does matter.
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2001 E46 Race Car - S54 Swap - Moton Suspension - CAE Shifter 2011 E90 M3 - ESS VT2-625 Supercharger - Stoptech Trophy BBK - Ohlins Road & Track - MP Exhaust Last edited by AxisMagi; 11-12-2014 at 05:03 AM.. |
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11-12-2014, 01:49 PM | #33 | |
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11-13-2014, 01:23 AM | #34 | |
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tempted to convert my E90 were it not for the heat issues I was having. One tech I know built a world challenge e9x and they had same heat issue with NA motor, they tried bigger radiator and intercooler and still had heat problem wringing out the S65. Not sure if the next owner of the car sorted it out. I wonder what Turner did for their e9x race cars...
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11-13-2014, 01:22 PM | #35 | ||
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11-13-2014, 01:32 PM | #36 |
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I did a test last year with the GT3 (granted it is different car/engine): On one of the tracks that I visit often (Summit Point), on the front straight, we shift from 3rd to 4th and to 5th before braking for turn 1. I used to short shift from 4th to 5th right around 8K RPM normally. On multiple sessions and different days (low and high temps), I ran it to 8500 RPM before shifting to 5th. My data logger recorded, in each of the cases, 6 to 8 mph higher speed before braking and 0.2 to 0.3 lower times for the straight
My point is that sometime we assume there isn't much to be had with an NA engine up top, but this was a surprising finding for me. |
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11-13-2014, 02:25 PM | #37 | |
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That is exactly why I had my rev limit incresed to 8600rpm, to better exploit the power curve. From data logs, I also saw better terminal speed when I shifted at 8500~8600. However, if I abused of the extra RPM too much, I would get a sluggish DCT and the engine oil temperature would creep on the high side. So I only used it when I had a clean hot lap or trying to catch someone. |
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11-13-2014, 05:37 PM | #38 | |
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11-13-2014, 08:41 PM | #39 |
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That's what I normally think as well, but the Mezger has proved to be stronger than my beliefs I wouldn't do it with a DFI engine though
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11-13-2014, 08:44 PM | #40 | |
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11-22-2014, 01:11 PM | #41 |
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I have found using my last dyno findings for shifting reference (8-8.2K), also adjusted the shift light for precision. It made quite a difference not on my end of front straight at most tracks, but corner exit speed if my splip angle is spot-on as well.
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11-22-2014, 01:27 PM | #42 |
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11-22-2014, 01:29 PM | #43 |
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Be wary what dyno data you use. Chassis inertia dynos tend to increase the error as the speed increases due to drivetrain and wheel inertia. The RPM of the power peak will always show lower on such dynos.
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11-23-2014, 07:02 PM | #44 |
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Nice write up and review...looking at an F80 in a couple years, in addition to the e90 of course. Look forward to seeing some F80/82's out there next year. Enjoy the sweet ride
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