The E9X M3 doesn't need carbon cleaning, right?

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Because it doesn't have direct injection, a carbon clean isn't that needed and a used car HP's should be very similar to factory?

[sirploppy]

Correct the s65 engine does not have the carbon buildup issues of the direct injected n54.

Now whether the engine has similar hp to factory can also be effected by compression or a number of other wear issues.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by sirploppy

Correct the s65 engine does not have the carbon buildup issues of the direct injected n54.

Now whether the engine has similar hp to factory can also be effected by compression or a number of other wear issues.

Yes true. But usually carbon buildup is the main cause right?

[roastbeef]

We don't have carbon build up.

[Pig Farmer]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

We don't have carbon build up.

Agree! Looking down the throttle bodies, my intake valves were spotless. I guess that's one advantage of have port injection and 14 mpg. At a conservative 60mph, that's roughly half a gallon of fuel cleaning each set of valves every hour.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Because it doesn't have direct injection, a carbon clean isn't that needed and a used car HP's should be very similar to factory?

Any car will get a little bit of carbon build-up, but it's not nearly to the degree that some direct injection designs are susceptible to. We have two things working in our favor beyond the obvious port-injection benefit:

1. Car requires premium fuel which will have more detergents to slow down and even remove any build up
2. Car uses high-quality synthetic oils which are less likely to form deposits

And I suppose a third benefit would be that these motors are often run pretty hard which helps to burn off any deposits. :-)

If you want to keep deposits to the lowest levels possible, consider running a PEA-rich fuel injector cleaner in the final full tank of gas BEFORE your next oil change. They're often BOGO at the auto parts stores or available on Amazon subscribe-and-save. Cleaners with documented high PEA levels:

1. Gumout Regane
2. Chevron Techron Concentrate (this is what the BMW-branded cleaner is)
3. Amsoil PI
4. Redline SI-1

Most other "injector cleaners" are crap and use almost no PEA, so stick with the four I just listed. The SAE has proven that PEA in concentrations over 25% does reduce deposits. If in doubt, check the MSDS and look for "polyetheramine" in a level of 25% or higher.

[serranot]

All cars are going to get some carbon buildup. The PCV system routes oil vapor to the intake system. That plus the other things that happen in the intake will cause carbon buildup. But as others have noted, having a fresh stream of solvent being sprayed in there definitely helps keep things clean.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Because it doesn't have direct injection, a carbon clean isn't that needed and a used car HP's should be very similar to factory?

Carbon will build up eventually on most motors, it just takes a long time on NA non direct injection ones. In the past cars would get carbon build up after 120K miles, the new direct injection motors can have bad build up at 60k or less. So eventually, carbon cleaning would help your motor too, just at much higher miles.

[G80indy]

Do the occasional Italian tuneup and use good fuel

[McSwine]

I generally add a bottle of Techron to my gas prior to an oil change. Don't know if it helps or not but probably doesn't hurt.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by McSwine

I generally add a bottle of Techron to my gas prior to an oil change. Don't know if it helps or not but probably doesn't hurt.

It should since it's not direct injection and fuel actually hit the valves.

[Rajmun340]

Originally Posted by dparm

Any car will get a little bit of carbon build-up, but it's not nearly to the degree that some direct injection designs are susceptible to. We have two things working in our favor beyond the obvious port-injection benefit:

1. Car requires premium fuel which will have more detergents to slow down and even remove any build up
2. Car uses high-quality synthetic oils which are less likely to form deposits

And I suppose a third benefit would be that these motors are often run pretty hard which helps to burn off any deposits. :-)

If you want to keep deposits to the lowest levels possible, consider running a PEA-rich fuel injector cleaner in the final full tank of gas BEFORE your next oil change. They're often BOGO at the auto parts stores or available on Amazon subscribe-and-save. Cleaners with documented high PEA levels:

1. Gumout Regane
2. Chevron Techron Concentrate (this is what the BMW-branded cleaner is)
3. Amsoil PI
4. Redline SI-1

Most other "injector cleaners" are crap and use almost no PEA, so stick with the four I just listed. The SAE has proven that PEA in concentrations over 25% does reduce deposits. If in doubt, check the MSDS and look for "polyetheramine" in a level of 25% or higher.

I guess carbon buildup in the engine internals could be unrelated to carbon buildup at the tail pipes ? I get quite a bit of the latter, i guess it's where all that oil consumption goes that bmw wants to insist is normal and isn't.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by JoeM3SSII

I guess carbon buildup in the engine internals could be unrelated to carbon buildup at the tail pipes ? I get quite a bit of the latter, i guess it's where all that oil consumption goes that bmw wants to insist is normal and isn't.

Soot is a byproduct of combustion, any car's exhaust will have some carbon particulates in it. If it's overly-sooty, that's a sign you're burning oil and/or running rich.

[Mvy]

Correct. This is not like Audis. No Carbon cleaning service tax for this car.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Mvy

Correct. This is not like Audis. No Carbon cleaning service tax for this car.

Only the first-gen Audi FSI systems had the problem. They've gotten much better in newer iterations but it will still never be as clean as port-injection.

[roastbeef]

the simple answer is no. there is nothing like what you see on the 335 forums or in audi's (i'm not familiar with audi's alleged carbon problem) in m3's. it is not something we deal with.

every car gets deposits, blah blah blah, its not an m3 problem. there are plenty of rod bearing and throttle actuator threads if op is interested in problems or typical issues.

[Richbot]

Most oems seem to be going to dual port and direct for new designs

[Scrippy]

If your secondary air system is obstructed you will need to clean the carbon out of the runner. I currently have this issue on bank 1. It happened to me around 220,000 miles.

[amrazM]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

If your secondary air system is obstructed you will need to clean the carbon out of the runner. I currently have this issue on bank 1. It happened to me around 220,000 miles.

most of the naturally aspirated BMWs have this issue, carbon buildup at the cylinder head air injection port.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by amrazM

most of the naturally aspirated BMWs have this issue, carbon buildup at the cylinder head air injection port.

By chance do you know if BMW uses the same runner size in all the motors? Reason I ask is because there is a tool for the 7 series. If the main runners on each bank are the same size I could use the tool to clean my S65. Otherwise I'm stuck making a tool.

[nrubenstein]

The short answer is no, carbon buildup is not an issue.

The longer answer is that lots of things will cause massive drops in power.

An example: Old spark plugs are a big deal on the S65. Because they are also used for knock detection, fresh OE plugs are critical to achieving full performance.

[amrazM]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

By chance do you know if BMW uses the same runner size in all the motors? Reason I ask is because there is a tool for the 7 series. If the main runners on each bank are the same size I could use the tool to clean my S65. Otherwise I'm stuck making a tool.

Depending on the severity of it you may need to use the S62 passageway cleaning. If you are actually having an issue with air not making it through the cylinder heads expect to have to seperate the heads from the motor.