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      07-19-2019, 09:16 AM   #1
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C8 Corvette

I'm surprised no one has opened this before me, but here we go

What do you guys think?


https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...e-photos-info/
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      07-19-2019, 09:25 AM   #2
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My two cents:

I dislike the mid engine thing. American cars suffer from too much spreadsheet-itis, that is, the desire to 'check the box' on things.
Examples:
-Flat plane engine like the GT350. Then it drinks oil like there's no tomorrow and is unreliable given the complaints on the Mustang forums. But hey, they were able to check the damn box
-Dry sump oil system. Cuz if expensive cars have it we need it too! Nevermind that later on it'll still suffer oil starvation. Meanwhile, the E9X M3 and F8X generations don't suffer oil starvation without any fancy check the box exercises.
-Auto gearboxes that are worthless piles of manure. Like the 8 speed in the Z06. But they still spoke about it being faster than PDK/DCT... perhaps when the DCT is disconnected from the car the 8/10 speed is faster
-Lots of cooling stuff. Diff cooler, tranny cooler, oil cooler, whatever. Then it overheats with stock PSS tires in 80F weather.
-etc etc

So, I feel the mid engine thing is a massive distraction. There is no handling issue with being front engine rear wheel drive. I wish they had concentrated on building a better driver's car.



That said, I do like a few things:
-Moved away from leaf/composite whatever springs and now have double wishbones. Given that a pro driver says they feel this is responsible for handling that is trickier than it should be, this is a big win
-Still evolving big, NA power engines. I like the base engine has 495hp, that's cool.
-Finally a friggin DCT! Built by Tremec so we'll see if it's comparable to DCT, but still a good step


As always I'm a sucker for hoping they build proper american cars for track use that function properly. Hope springs eternal. Perhaps the C8 is something I can buy and that's exciting!
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      07-19-2019, 09:43 AM   #3
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Literally just finished reading on it and was coming in here to see if there was a thread on it.

I think this is a hell of a bargain for what, as you said, boxes are checked. It has a tasty ingredient listing, just curious if they got the proportions correct for a great dish. I’m in the boat that is concerned there is too much new when they hadn’t necessarily perfected the existing. Biting off more than they can chew, but I don’t think I can bitch too much with the price point they’re starting at. Sub $60k??
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      07-19-2019, 12:04 PM   #4
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Come join us on the other 5 page C8 thread ;-)
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1635360
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      07-19-2019, 01:36 PM   #5
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I think it looks fantastic, after the GT350 this is the first US made car I would consider owning. The interior is certainly interesting and the square wheel looks massive. The price is amazing, shows they are really focused spending money in the right places. I'm sure there will be massive dealer markups at first, but the M2 competition and Supra should be looking fearfully over their shoulder. Only slight ding on it is no manual trans and sounds like there may not be one.
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      07-20-2019, 08:12 PM   #6
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I'd rather have a c6 z06 z07 regardless of the price.
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      07-20-2019, 08:38 PM   #7
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Not sure I like the switch spine but the rest of the interior looks great especially with all the seat options and different color leather and bezels you can spec. The double trunk is convenient but makes me think they're pandering to old people which has always been the stereotype of corvettes, driven by old men. I've always felt the later generation corvettes look great from the front but I've not been a big fan of the rear end styling and I don't think the rear end of the C8 is any different, looks boxy and cheap, which is disappointing. I feel they missed on a shot there considering it's mid engine, they should of "borrowed" some of Ferrari's 488 lines, that car flows beautifully. I do like how low the rear end sits though. Overall it's a badass car but I don't think I'd rush out of to buy one if I was in the market, I prefer the c7. But I guess for a mid engine v8 sports car at that price point it has no competition. It's a poor mans 458 which is old hat really..
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      07-21-2019, 07:11 AM   #8
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Great car, looks and numbers wise. I'm only iffy about the Camaro rear-end, but not enough to where it'd sway myself from buying one.

The base models are gonna be flooding the streets like Chargers and Challengers though.
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      07-21-2019, 12:00 PM   #9
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Generally looks awesome. Back end looks a little too long (I blame the trunk ******* and I wish they'd go back to 4 center exit tailpipes and 4 round tail lights. I love corvettes. My dad has a C5 with 32k miles on it and it's a blast to drive and looks gorgeous.

The C8 will be an awesome road car and when the Z06 comes out I'm sure it will be a track monster. Can't wait to see what the C8R will look like in full trim.
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      07-22-2019, 12:32 PM   #10
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My 2 cents:

Why is there a Porsche sports car if the corvette finally has corner-exit traction?

Can't wait to see what they can do with it. The LT1 is such a bangin' NA motor, reminds me a lot of the M156 benz 6.2 and that's quite a feat with one camshaft, produced in merica-sized portions, with a zero removed from the price. I don 't want a 2-seater but if I did, I'd want the GS version.

V8 noises + mid engine + under $100k is unprecedented in this century....if this thing is $70k with the good stuff on it, holy hell.

I also have confidence at least one important system had a standardization/parts commonality/cost issue create a flaw we will all learn to love and laugh at, because GM. But flaws are inevitable. I love it. And all the grumbling at C&C was hilarious - 100% generation gap.

Speaking of C&C - new crowd excursion king? Midengine cars are much easier to overcorrect into a curb/lawn chair/median when the rear tires are spinning, very common oopsie for people new to an MR car
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      07-22-2019, 12:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Why is there a Porsche sports car if the corvette finally has corner-exit traction?
because I don't think the P car's existence had anything to do with a lack of corner exit traction of Vettes.

I really don't want to be in a position to defend P cars though. So we'll take BMW M as an analogy to the P car.

M cars exist because they are nice to drive, nice to look at, nice to feel. And they're pretty fast when driven properly.

The Vette has always been stupidly fast. Now it will continue to be stupidly fast. But when people have 100k to spend on a car and plan to keep their license, besides some accelerations in onramps and some track days most of the time the car is on the road, where feel and perceived quality are much more important than 0-60 times.

Hopefully this is a great car and instead of getting a G80 for dedicated track use after the CS I can buy this but I'm not holding my breath. I have hope though!
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      07-22-2019, 01:21 PM   #12
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I have a theory that the only reason people buy 911's is because they are afraid of wheelspin

It can't be image anymore, the neighbor's got three Porsche SUV's in her driveway all the time
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      07-22-2019, 04:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
It can't be image anymore
Many people buy Porsches because they want to say they own a Porsche, or because they always dreamed of owning one. Same applies to the Corvette.

The number of "purists" and "enthusiasts" that own them is not as big as they like to make it out to be in marketing. Don't believe me? Here's what the most popular Corvette configuration looks like, roughly. It's a stripped-down base model that's right at the far edge of the pricing spectrum and has no performance options, making it a weekend cruiser:

-Stingray coupe
-1LT (base model)
-automatic
-no magnetic ride
-base silver wheels
-black interior, base seats
-white paint

These are the guys that ridicule owners like me who take the car to the track and stretch the car's legs. They keep their Corvette in the garage 6 days a week, never drive it in the rain, and take it to the local cruise night at McDonalds every Saturday where they camp out in a fucking lawn chair all night next to it. Go swing by any sort of Corvette owner meet or car show and this is the norm.

These boomermobiles make great track cars if you can manage to convince the owner that his car isn't worth the original MSRP 10 years after he bought it just because of the aforementioned low mileage/no rain use.


http://www.macmulkincorvette.com/cor...ction-numbers/
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      07-22-2019, 09:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Many people buy Porsches because they want to say they own a Porsche, or because they always dreamed of owning one. Same applies to the Corvette.

The number of "purists" and "enthusiasts" that own them is not as big as they like to make it out to be in marketing. Don't believe me? Here's what the most popular Corvette configuration looks like, roughly. It's a stripped-down base model that's right at the far edge of the pricing spectrum and has no performance options, making it a weekend cruiser:

-Stingray coupe
-1LT (base model)
-automatic
-no magnetic ride
-base silver wheels
-black interior, base seats
-white paint

These are the guys that ridicule owners like me who take the car to the track and stretch the car's legs. They keep their Corvette in the garage 6 days a week, never drive it in the rain, and take it to the local cruise night at McDonalds every Saturday where they camp out in a fucking lawn chair all night next to it. Go swing by any sort of Corvette owner meet or car show and this is the norm.

These boomermobiles make great track cars if you can manage to convince the owner that his car isn't worth the original MSRP 10 years after he bought it just because of the aforementioned low mileage/no rain use.


http://www.macmulkincorvette.com/cor...ction-numbers/
I got a good laugh out of this. Don't knock the lawn chair though, at HPDE's between being on track and collecting trophies (obviously), sitting in a lawn chair next to my 10 year old bimmer is one of the most enjoyable parts
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      07-22-2019, 11:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
It can't be image anymore
Many people buy Porsches because they want to say they own a Porsche, or because they always dreamed of owning one. Same applies to the Corvette.

The number of "purists" and "enthusiasts" that own them is not as big as they like to make it out to be in marketing. Don't believe me? Here's what the most popular Corvette configuration looks like, roughly. It's a stripped-down base model that's right at the far edge of the pricing spectrum and has no performance options, making it a weekend cruiser:

-Stingray coupe
-1LT (base model)
-automatic
-no magnetic ride
-base silver wheels
-black interior, base seats
-white paint

These are the guys that ridicule owners like me who take the car to the track and stretch the car's legs. They keep their Corvette in the garage 6 days a week, never drive it in the rain, and take it to the local cruise night at McDonalds every Saturday where they camp out in a fucking lawn chair all night next to it. Go swing by any sort of Corvette owner meet or car show and this is the norm.

These boomermobiles make great track cars if you can manage to convince the owner that his car isn't worth the original MSRP 10 years after he bought it just because of the aforementioned low mileage/no rain use.


http://www.macmulkincorvette.com/cor...ction-numbers/
You just described my dad hahaha. I think it's cool though. I celebrate it. And some day I hope the car will be mine and I'll have this basically showroom condition C5 to cruise around in on the weekends.
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      07-24-2019, 07:54 PM   #16
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I have to say that the pics do very little for me. The car looks kind of cheap in the renders that they showed. And the lack of manual isn't my favorite. I don't drive an e9x with 6MT because it's the fastest thing out there. It's because it's the most engaging and liveable vehicle that I considered at the time. Hopefully everyone dumps their C7 to go for the new model. I'll take a 1LT Grand Sport with 7MT all day long. Perhaps when I see one in person I'll be more interested, but the C7 is where it's at for me.
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      07-25-2019, 08:52 PM   #17
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In all honesty, this car is quite incredible given it’s within a few thousand $ of the Supra, M2 and Cayman/boxster.

Putting aside performance, which will be leaps and bounds beyond those cars, the drama it presents is unmatched at this level. Now, I’m not saying I like the way it looks (the stance and shape are awesome, it’s just way too overstyled), but that’s subjective.
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      07-26-2019, 09:11 AM   #18
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I have known exactly one corvette owner who show and shined it and never drove it for real. In my whole life. Everybody else was/is an enthusiast who at least did the occasional autocross.

I have seen the people discussed on here, I know they exist, but I think they're outnumbered. You just don't hear about the guys actually driving their cars because they're busy driving the things instead of eating all the costco samples and going home to rub the car with a depends
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      07-26-2019, 02:06 PM   #19
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I'm ready. Maybe in year 2 or 3 of production. I've never owned a Vette, but I grew up with two of them my Dad owned when they were extremely rare, expensive compared to other cars of the era, and swarmed by people wanting to look at it when we parked at times. My Dad bought a new 1963 C2 vert which was then stolen in 1965. He bought a new 1965 C2 vert to replace it, and that one wasn't stolen until 1968. Both were swiped from the two NYC airports, one a piece.

Anyway, I remember most the 1965 one, as my Dad trained me as his stopwatch timer on 0-60 and 60-90 acceleration runs. It had developed a high rpm miss that he couldn't figure out for some time, so we'd do these timed runs to see how it was running with each attempted fix/change. It turned out to be the coil that was partly shorting to ground in higher humidity conditions. As a 7-8 year old, I loved the huge tire barking 1-2 shifts he would do...there wasn't anything cooler in the 60s than that at my age.

I was 6 in 1965, and I recall going to the dealership to buy the 1965 Vette. I was asking my Mom how much it cost, and she was being evasive, so I apparently really pestered her until she finally gave in, cupped her hands around my ear, and whispered loudly "$4000 and DON'T TELL ANYONE."

Dad passed two years ago at 90, but he and I always used to talk about getting another Corvette one day. I'm thinking a C8 Grandsport might be the one in a couple of years. It has to be a blast to autox one of these things what with its super low polar moment of inertia and all...likely changes directions lightning fast, slaloms sound fun. My first autocross experience in 1975 was in a 914 2.0, so it's been a while since I've had mid-engine experience.
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      07-26-2019, 02:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
I'm ready. Maybe in year 2 or 3 of production. I've never owned a Vette, but I grew up with two of them my Dad owned when they were extremely rare, expensive compared to other cars of the era, and swarmed by people wanting to look at it when we parked at times. My Dad bought a new 1963 C2 vert which was then stolen in 1965. He bought a new 1965 C2 vert to replace it, and that one wasn't stolen until 1968. Both were swiped from the two NYC airports, one a piece.

Anyway, I remember most the 1965 one, as my Dad trained me as his stopwatch timer on 0-60 and 60-90 acceleration runs. It had developed a high rpm miss that he couldn't figure out for some time, so we'd do these timed runs to see how it was running with each attempted fix/change. It turned out to be the coil that was partly shorting to ground in higher humidity conditions. As a 7-8 year old, I loved the huge tire barking 1-2 shifts he would do...there wasn't anything cooler in the 60s than that at my age.

I was 6 in 1965, and I recall going to the dealership to buy the 1965 Vette. I was asking my Mom how much it cost, and she was being evasive, so I apparently really pestered her until she finally gave in, cupped her hands around my ear, and whispered loudly "$4000 and DON'T TELL ANYONE."

Dad passed two years ago at 90, but he and I always used to talk about getting another Corvette one day. I'm thinking a C8 Grandsport might be the one in a couple of years. It has to be a blast to autox one of these things what with its super low polar moment of inertia and all...likely changes directions lightning fast, slaloms sound fun. My first autocross experience in 1975 was in a 914 2.0, so it's been a while since I've had mid-engine experience.
Nothing like those early memories where parents teach their kids about the love for cars!
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      07-31-2019, 09:48 AM   #21
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I want to drive one first, to confirm it drives well, but I tentatively plan to buy a 3rd year of production example. Ideally a Grand Sport (wide body with the base engine) with Z51 and magnetic shocks (assuming they're not included with Z51 and/or Grand Sport).

So many things I'm loving about this car:
-GM's magnetic shocks are amazing (there's a reason Ferrari licences them)
-dry sump allows the engine to be super low-- the top of the valve covers is below the top of the tires! Awesome for COG
-the roof fitting in the trunk while still having the frunk for bags will make for awesome weekend getaways with the wife
-iron brakes
-hugely useful (data filled) instruments. Temps for everything, super clear tach dominated mode for track use.
-mid engine will make for a very different driving experience than my other cars, which I'm excited for
-the forward driving position that results from being mid engined addresses my #1 criticism with previous corvettes-- they feel huge from the driver's seat.
-Still naturally aspirated! Still hybrid free! K.I.S.S. is how I like to live!
-I'm not excited for the trans (I want manual), but, regardless of how fast it shifts, it should make the car faster than other DCTs-- it leaves both gears hooked up to the drive shaft at once, somehow, so there's zero time where power is not being applied to the tires. Plus, with BMW going back to slushboxes on M cars, the competition is less fierce than ever!
-0-60 in less than 3 seconds for base model corvette is just absurd.
-still has buttons for climate control/etc! This trend to touch screens for stuff like that drives me nuts
-Ventilated seats! One of my most desired features.
-Corvette has way more legit motorsport cred/heritage in the last 20 years than BMW
-interior actually looks pretty great to me, at least in pictures. We'll see how that pans out in person, but at the bear minimum I don't feel like I'll be offended by it. Simultaneously, I've been liking BMW's interiors less and less with each passing generation
-should still be reasonably serviceable, unlike recent cars from BMW/Porsche
-AFAIK, only Z06 C7s suffered any overheating issues in recent vette history (and they successfully fixed that on the ZR1), so odds are good that it'll not have heat issues on track with the Z51 package.
-still RWD
-Wireless carplay (not subscription based, because that's retarded) and an integrated Qi charger-- the only two modern tech features I care about :P

Assuming the C8 will overheat/oil starve on track because Fords do is like assuming BMWs will because Audis do. Corvette's have been extremely solid on track from C5 on, outside of one variant (C7 Z06).

I'm pretty excited for this. Feels weird to me, as I haven't been excited about any new cars for a LONG time.
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      07-31-2019, 10:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
-should still be reasonably serviceable, unlike recent cars from BMW/Porsche
-AFAIK, only Z06 C7s suffered any overheating issues in recent vette history (and they successfully fixed that on the ZR1), so odds are good that it'll not have heat issues on track with the Z51 package.
.
It's hard for me to imagine how a mid engined car will be more serviceable than front engined ones

Regarding overheating, you can read Car and Driver's long term test of the Z51 C7, where they overheated the car twice driving on mountain roads.
An E9X will overheat with stock radiators if you use slicks on the track, however, on a mountain road you aren't going to overheat anything.

I have hope the C8 will be good, but not faith.
Faith is what I have after heavily tracking the E46, E9X and F8X generation. I have faith the G8X generation will be great.
The C8 Vette hopefully will be great but I have a hard time trusting them

I personally dislike turbo engines and EPS systems, but I track the F8X hard and it responds perfectly

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