Track forum general chit chat.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

Just put on some new front calipers, braided lines, and DS2500 pads for an upcoming day at Thermal. I know many have said this is not actually an upgrade since I'm still using OEM rotors but I need to prove that to myself. Next upgrade would be rotors.

The DS2500 is a competent pad that falls off gradually. I still think you'll need to watch temps though.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

Just put on some new front calipers, braided lines, and DS2500 pads for an upcoming day at Thermal. I know many have said this is not actually an upgrade since I'm still using OEM rotors but I need to prove that to myself. Next upgrade would be rotors.

If you're driving South Palm (the red course), you may want a better pad than DS2500. With the long straights into 180º turns, that track is vicious on brakes. It's the only track I've ever visited that boiled my SRF brake fluid. My friend had AP brakes with a custom Orange paint job that had been on the car for over a year. After driving Thermal for 2 days, his front calipers turned bronze. Thermal's South Palm is very tough on brakes. North Palm isn't too bad. (I've never been on the Desert Circuit green course.)

[Bimmer Barney]

I think I am generally very hard on brakes because I'm a novice and I managed to survive LS with some DTC70's loaded in front of OEM calipers with MDM on. I never had noticeable fade but I did cook my dust seals.

I'll find out what configuration we are running and will also report back on performance.

It's a Brembo kit. I think as I become more skilled and turn off MDM I will give my brakes a better chance. Also worth noting I'm not using R-Compound or Slick tires, so that helps my brakes not be the first component to give up.

[dparm]

Sounds like lift-and-coast may be in order as the pads wear (later in the day).

[Grillpt]

So you're going from 70's to 2500's?

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

Is this the e92 M3 widebody GT with S62 car? I need that engine!

Yeah S62 is I what I was thinking too but couldn't confirm so not 100%. Their crew wasn't very chatty despite my overwhelming show of enthusiasm for the car. Or perhaps it was because of that

[CorruptCommie]

All track miles, the two most recent reports are Motul 300V 15W50, the ones on the right are Redline 50W. I'm sticking with the Motul.

[dbyrd]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Does that require a rebuild?

I ordered the replacement bearings from MCS at a cost of $22.50 plus shipping. Install is simple and as follows:

Remove snap rings
Press out old bearings
Clean bearing holder and lube with WD40
Press in new bearings
Use snap ring pliers to install new snap rings

That said, I don't have a press so my local mechanic (plug for Coulter at Mporium) will install them. I'm guessing it'll take an hour or two.

[Bimmer Barney]

Originally Posted by Grillpt

So you're going from 70's to 2500's?

Yes but mostly because I needed a new pads now for street

[Grillpt]

I'm not familiar with the track, but just take it easy and lift early

[Bimmer Barney]

Originally Posted by Grillpt

I'm not familiar with the track, but just take it easy and lift early

I don't lift.

[kyippee]

"Flat out"

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

Yes but mostly because I needed a new pads now for street

What everyone here is saying is that a Hawk DTC70 brake pad is a track dedicated high torque race pad. It's a very solid race pad. The Ferodo DS2500 is a mixed use, much mellower brake pad.

If you "managed to survive" at Laguna Seca with the DTC70.....then what does that mean for the DS2500 which is a mellower pad, at Thermal which is a potentially more abusive track??? Hence the advice to lift and coast.

You have a BBK caliper. I'm assuming pad swaps should be much easier now, right? If I were you, I'd get some dedicated race pads and swap them before the event. Leave the DS2500 for the street. Do you know how to swap pads?

In the end, we're just looking out for your safety.

(I used to run DS2500 on my rear calipers on the street. These days, for street use on my old Stillen AP kit, I use Hawk Performance Ceramic pads.....low torque, hardly any dust, no noise.....very nice for street.)

[Ximian]

My next upgrades will be safety gear, so the Schroth QFP for both seats with a head and neck restraint device. My car is a daily driver 95% of the time so I don't want to change out the seats and roll cage at this point.

I'm looking at either the "Performance HANS III" or the Simpson Hybrid Sport which is slightly more expensive. The Simpson one looks great because you can use it even without a harness with the bonus of restraining better during side impacts. So Simpson device looks better on paper but the HANS device is still more popular. What am I missing?

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Ximian

My next upgrades will be safety gear, so the Schroth QFP for both seats with a head and neck restraint device. My car is a daily driver 95% of the time so I don't want to change out the seats and roll cage at this point.

I'm looking at either the "Performance HANS III" or the Simpson Hybrid Sport which is slightly more expensive. The Simpson one looks great because you can use it even without a harness with the bonus of restraining better during side impacts. So Simpson device looks better on paper but the HANS device is still more popular. What am I missing?

The Hybrid S is nice if you jump around to lots of different cars (that may not have harnesses), i.e. an instructor. Supposedly it does provide a little bit better side-to-side protection than a HANS, but if you are using a seat with a halo it may not be as big of a deal.

I have heard the Simpson can be uncomfortable for some, depending on your seat and the shape of your back. But...the HANS can also be painful for some if you have a bigger chest. The Schroth SHR sort of tries to fix that but I've heard it can still be painful.

The Simpson that works with 3-point belts is way more expensive than a traditional HANS, BTW.

My advice is to find a shop that stocks both and try them out.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by dparm

My advice is to find a shop that stocks both and try them out.

There's only one place I know of locally and they seem to have just the $1000 carbon fiber HANS device in stock. No reason to spend almost twice as much just for carbon fiber.

Looking at the Simpson Hybrid Sport further, that may dig into my back and be more painful than the HANS so that's a no-go for me. I do need a bit of recline to fit in the car comfortably with a helmet on.

The price difference between the two isn't particularly drastic. HANS III is around $500 and the Simpson Hybrid Sport is $600 plus $40 with the seat belt anchors.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Ximian

There's only one place I know of locally and they seem to have just the $1000 carbon fiber HANS device in stock. No reason to spend almost twice as much just for carbon fiber.

Looking at the Simpson Hybrid Sport further, that may dig into my back and be more painful than the HANS so that's a no-go for me. I do need a bit of recline to fit in the car comfortably with a helmet on.

The price difference between the two isn't particularly drastic. HANS III is around $500 and the Simpson Hybrid Sport is $600 plus $40 with the seat belt anchors.

I had the Hans (still do actually, I should sell it...) and have moved to the Hybrid Sport.

Being an instructor is part of this, as sometimes I'm in a car with 3 point belts, but when you go to AER for example... almost every single person is running the Hybrid.

The word on the street is that the Hybrid being attached to your body is a safety advantage if you're rolling around in an accident.


I also have the idontknowwhat rev2 which is like a Hans, just more comfortable

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I had the Hans (still do actually, I should sell it...) and have moved to the Hybrid Sport.

How does the buckle on the back feel? It looks like it would dig in and become painful or is it mostly flat and uncomfortable?

Maybe getting both wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Ximian]

Changing topics but still slightly related... A question for the instructors - how would you feel if a student had the QFP harness only for the driver side?

In my opinion, the harness is not a safety device if you don't have head and neck restraints. My primary use for the QFP is to hold me in place so I'm not bracing against the steering wheel while cornering. During events with the local BMW CCA and Audi groups, only one instructor out of the 20 or so total had a HANS device. So the chances of having an instructor assigned that can make proper use of the harness are next to nil.

My justification is that I will be moving to the "advanced" group and will primarily solo. I'll also do other events (essentially test sessions for club racers) where I would be solo as well. Having a QFP on the passenger side for only two or three 20 minute sessions per year when an instructor will be sitting there without a head and neck restraint system seems wasteful.

The money saved on the passenger side QFP harness could pay for more than half of a Simpson Hybrid Sport I could have as a spare for an instructor, assuming a compatible fit.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Changing topics but still slightly related... A question for the instructors - how would you feel if a student had the QFP harness only for the driver side?
.

Well, I won't get into the car. It's required at PCA and probably BMWCCA (in a longstanding tradition of being the biggest pain in the ass possible) to use the same restraints on both sides.

It also signals that the driver doesn't care much about my safety, which isn't going to go well either

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Ximian

How does the buckle on the back feel? It looks like it would dig in and become painful or is it mostly flat and uncomfortable?

Maybe getting both wouldn't be a bad idea.

My brother and I debated this point over and over again, but in the end I don't notice it *at all*, so it's a win-win other than the cost

[VicS5]

All clubs I run with (BMW, Porsche and Audi) all require equal restraints for driver and passenger. I also would not get in a car to instruct were I to see that the driver had invested in enhancing his own safety, but not mine.