!!!!! M-DCT / M-DKG is here !!!!!

[phoenixbmwlife]

Funny

[footie]

Originally Posted by T Bone

That might be the VAG way to do things. We know next to nothing about DCT so your proclaimation that VAG DSG > BMW DCT is more than alittle pre-mature, in fact, this opinion is just full of shit.

Stick to your DSG and your understeering pig and hold out a little longer for some details for DCT.

T-Bone,

You clearly have no knowledge or experience with DSG style transmissions so I would recommend to sit this one out. DSG style gearboxes all change gear within 0.003s or there about so what is the point in offering modes to alter this, the gearbox software only requires three modes, an automatic mode to take care of the changing for you, a sport mode which will drop gears quicker and hold them longer and a fully manual mode with you in control. That is it, end of story, nothing more is needed.

You notice I don't personally attack you but you seem to have too. You talk about metrosexual uniforms and drinking latte coffee and all the time stating you are from the land where you kill baby seals, if I didn't know better you seem to be trying to give off the vibe that you are a real man's man, is this because it is you and not me which has problems with your own sexuality.

Lets face it, you already have your personal whipping boy in E90Rice.

[swamp2]

I seem to be catching up and posting in the wrong spot. I just posted some comments on the 'Vert and DCT as well as the claimed performance numbers and efficiency here.

Footie: Your arguments against adjutability are really stale and almost irrelevant. I do see what you mean that the car probably could get by quite well with less automatic and less manual modes (ala Ferrari). However, look at the number of variables in the VW system here (I posted these and you read them before). As well enigmas post of his wish list for customization of DCT, which I paste in below.

* Enable/Disable auto upshift at redline
* Enable/Disable auto upshift on paddle hold (hold upshift paddle down for auto shift at redline)
* Enable/Disable downshift queue
* Enable/Disable shift speed depends on engine rpm
* Enable/Disable smooth shift during lateral G load.
* Enable/Disable throttle blip on downshift
* Settable auto downshift RPM per gear
* Seperate control for shift RPM in auto mode (from shift speed)

Now he is much more of a track junkie than 99% of us here and I doubt that he will get many of his wishes for adjustability of DCT. However, there is great possbilities for all the different settings and many might use them. If you want DCT and don't like the number of modes the answer is simple, buy is and leave it in the equivalent of SMGs S5 (or whatever mode suits you best).

Not sure how many times I have said it (and BMW has said it and every article on the M3 has said it) - THE CAR IS ABOUT CUSTOMIZEABLE FEEL AND DRIVING EXPERIENCE - DCT is simply following in line.

By the way you are about 10 times too fast on your quote for DSG shift times. .008s is widely quoted buy a more realistic number is .03s, which is 30ms.

@T-Bone: I do agree you could cut the insults toward footie. You are a darn funny guy and I enjoy your posts but the insults are not called for and are detracting. JMHO.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Epacy

3754 lbs. Yuck!!

6MT all the way!!!

Fantasitic way to throw out the baby with the bath water. Ohhhhh no, +50 lb. There are reasons to choose a MT for some, but this is like saying you will be able to feel the driving difference of the CF roof. The only thing you will be feeling in the M-DCT is something a lot faster.

[footie]

swamp2,

Correct me if I am wrong here, but if Ferrari which is far more track oriented than an BMW bar maybe the CSL can get by with precious few setting then surely BMW should follow suit. Do you not feel it's a case that with making all the different options on the SMG that they feel their loyal SMG customers will think they are being short changed with so few a setting and might not buy into it the same.

But my points are valid and the statement says that this is totally a different experience than SMG is true. Only when you sample this type of shift will you understand that multiple modes are really excess to requirements.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by footie

swamp2,

Correct me if I am wrong here, but if Ferrari which is far more track oriented than an BMW bar maybe the CSL can get by with precious few setting then surely BMW should follow suit. Do you not feel it's a case that with making all the different options on the SMG that they feel their loyal SMG customers will think they are being short changed with so few a setting and might not buy into it the same.

But my points are valid and the statement says that this is totally a different experience than SMG is true. Only when you sample this type of shift will you understand that multiple modes are really excess to requirements.

I don't think BMW should follow suit behind Ferrari, very different companies, very different cars and very different philosophies. I do think they could get by with less settings but it seems like such a minor thing to gripe about. Maybe we will get some of enigmas great ideas, don't you think many of those are valid desires and could be part of a multitude of settings? I don't think it has much to do with the SMG nor the M5. Of course I do agree as well that DCT and SMG will offer a very different driving experience.

[enigma]

Originally Posted by footie

T-Bone,

You clearly have no knowledge or experience with DSG style transmissions so I would recommend to sit this one out. DSG style gearboxes all change gear within 0.003s or there about so what is the point in offering modes to alter this, the gearbox software only requires three modes, an automatic mode to take care of the changing for you, a sport mode which will drop gears quicker and hold them longer and a fully manual mode with you in control. That is it, end of story, nothing more is needed.

Footie,

You really should learn more about driving before you talk about what is and isn't needed in a gearbox. There are uses for a lot more than auto / manual.

Auto upshift as an option would be nice to have. However, you would want to be able to override the auto option to avoid shifts right before brake zones.

Auto downshift on deaccell is also nice to have. On the track things can get real, real busy when you are going into a turn 3 wide and most of your focus is on not merging 2 cars into one.

Now the problem is if you make those standard in manual mode then it becomes worthless for driving on the street. you need to be able to configure the car for the task at hand.

Autocross is another sport where you would want some controls. for instance you wouldl want auto shifting between 2nd and 3rd but not between 1st and 2nd.

Now Footie you may think I pick on you but I only do so because you try to appear as an expert and attack other posters yet you have surprising little knowledge or experience to back it up.

In the E46 s1-6 were close to useless because they were redundant controls. However, a1-5 are very useful to have. Rather than the s modes it would have been better to have the controls swamp reposted for me above. Those would have real value to the driver.

[enigma]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I don't think BMW should follow suit behind Ferrari, very different companies, very different cars and very different philosophies. I do think they could get by with less settings but it seems like such a minor thing to gripe about. Maybe we will get some of enigmas great ideas, don't you think many of those are valid desires and could be part of a multitude of settings? I don't think it has much to do with the SMG nor the M5. Of course I do agree as well that DCT and SMG will offer a very different driving experience.

The difference between a BMW M and a Ferrari is the BMW has to be a jack of all trades. Good daily driver and still acceptable (hopefully good) for the track. Ferrari only has to do one thing well.

[footie]

Originally Posted by enigma

Now Footie you may think I pick on you but I only do so because you try to appear as an expert and attack other posters yet you have surprising little knowledge or experience to back it up.

I am not claiming to be an expert but if you have happen to have read any of the remarks from T-Bone and E90Rice you will know that the comments are not required and in a way have got my goat up so at times I am biting back. Like I have said I have had experience of the DSG which the M-DCT is based on so though not an expert I know how it behaves and works and it is TOTALLY different the SMG.

P.S.

Everyone seem to think I have little or no knowledge of racing cars, the only difference between yourself and I is that I don't shout about it and prefer to keep it that way.

[enigma]

Originally Posted by footie

Like I have said I have had experience of the DSG which the M-DCT is based on so though not an expert I know how it behaves and works and it is TOTALLY different the SMG.

P.S.

Everyone seem to think I have little or no knowledge of racing cars, the only difference between yourself and I is that I don't shout about it and prefer to keep it that way.

DSG is very different, no doubt. However, that doesn't mean all you want for it is a big Manual/Auto switch.

I am suspect of your track claims because if you had spent time there you would see where this stuff would come in handy. Just driving around a track at a comfortable pace doesn't count.

[footie]

Originally Posted by enigma

DSG is very different, no doubt. However, that doesn't mean all you want for it is a big Manual/Auto switch.

My comments were centred on road use and not track so you have to allow for this but I feel once you have sampled this gearbox you may start and see my point of view, in any case the most extreme setting would be required for track use so that would mean 4 settings instead of 3.

Originally Posted by enigma

I am suspect of your track claims because if you had spent time there you would see where this stuff would come in handy. Just driving around a track at a comfortable pace doesn't count.

I don't comment much on trackdays as I don't partake in them and so never use my own car but this does not mean I am unfamiliar with track work.

[Phoenix 21st]

are u Eddie?

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by swamp2

The only thing you will be feeling in the M-DCT is something a lot faster.

This is getting a little crazy.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Fantasitic way to throw out the baby with the bath water. Ohhhhh no, +50 lb. There are reasons to choose a MT for some, but this is like saying you will be able to feel the driving difference of the CF roof. The only thing you will be feeling in the M-DCT is something a lot faster.

It was a joking post Swamp. Like we all do in the MT v DCT debate.
Not enough smilies for you?
You'll be feeling your current ride as the DCT get repaired in the shop.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Epacy

It was a joking post Swamp. Like we all do in the MT v DCT debate.
Not enough smilies for you?
You'll be feeling your current ride as the DCT get repaired in the shop.

Touche. Only time will tell. I am not taking it too seriously either.

Remember there is almost always a little bit of truth/honesty even in sarcasm.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

T-Bone,

You clearly have no knowledge or experience with DSG style transmissions so I would recommend to sit this one out. DSG style gearboxes all change gear within 0.003s or there about so what is the point in offering modes to alter this, the gearbox software only requires three modes, an automatic mode to take care of the changing for you, a sport mode which will drop gears quicker and hold them longer and a fully manual mode with you in control. That is it, end of story, nothing more is needed.

You notice I don't personally attack you but you seem to have too. You talk about metrosexual uniforms and drinking latte coffee and all the time stating you are from the land where you kill baby seals, if I didn't know better you seem to be trying to give off the vibe that you are a real man's man, is this because it is you and not me which has problems with your own sexuality.

Lets face it, you already have your personal whipping boy in E90Rice.

Originally Posted by footie

My comments were centred on road use and not track so you have to allow for this but I feel once you have sampled this gearbox you may start and see my point of view, in any case the most extreme setting would be required for track use so that would mean 4 settings instead of 3.



I don't comment much on trackdays as I don't partake in them and so never use my own car but this does not mean I am unfamiliar with track work.

Originally Posted by footie

I am not claiming to be an expert but if you have happen to have read any of the remarks from T-Bone and E90Rice you will know that the comments are not required and in a way have got my goat up so at times I am biting back. Like I have said I have had experience of the DSG which the M-DCT is based on so though not an expert I know how it behaves and works and it is TOTALLY different the SMG.

P.S.

Everyone seem to think I have little or no knowledge of racing cars, the only difference between yourself and I is that I don't shout about it and prefer to keep it that way.

Oh oh... Looks like you are on the defensive mate. I have driven both SMG2 and SMG3 at the track and it is sublime. I expect nothing less from DCT.

Through the comments of my buddy SWAMP2, I realize that I can be abrasive but when you make declarations like DSG > DCT when DCT is not out yet and you have not driven on a track, you are just spewing disinformation.

I don't really need to get into my opinions on DSG since it is not the topic of discussion.

Just wait until DCT comes out before you render an opinion.

And if you are ever in Kanada, I will buy you a Latte

[aussiem3]

Is this the new DCT?

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

Is this the new DCT?

Yep, I love how clean the design is.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

Is this the new DCT?

No, it's the DCT control. The important part you can't see.

[footie]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Oh oh... Looks like you are on the defensive mate. I have driven both SMG2 and SMG3 at the track and it is sublime. I expect nothing less from DCT.

Trust me when I say this, M-DCT will be miles ahead of all forms of SMG. This is not to say that SMG is a bad thing, it's only that it's really old school in comparison.

Also my comments weren't that DSG is better than M-DCT, I am expecting quite the opposite but from my experience of DSG I know that multiple modes are surplus to requirement. With SMG each move up the level from 1 to 6 brings more extreme shifts which are felt through your very person, with DSG there is none of this, it is virtually undetectable.

That's all.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

Trust me when I say this, M-DCT will be miles ahead of all forms of SMG. This is not to say that SMG is a bad thing, it's only that it's really old school in comparison.

Also my comments weren't that DSG is better than M-DCT, I am expecting quite the opposite but from my experience of DSG I know that multiple modes are surplus to requirement. With SMG each move up the level from 1 to 6 brings more extreme shifts which are felt through your very person, with DSG there is none of this, it is virtually undetectable.

That's all.

You see my friend, if that is what you wrote, I would have not problem with that. I want a DCT for my car rather than SMG but you made a silly comment in http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=212

"It still looks like VAG are the only ones which is go the DSG gearbox right."

This what caused the hate-on from me.....

[footie]

Originally Posted by T Bone

You see my friend, if that is what you wrote, I would have not problem with that. I want a DCT for my car rather than SMG but you made a silly comment in http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=212

"It still looks like VAG are the only ones which is go the DSG gearbox right."

This what caused the hate-on from me.....

That comment was with regards to multiple modes, VAG give you 3 which in my opinion is near enough spot on for a road car. But I will concede that a race mode would be a worth while addition.