Do I need rear toe links if upgrading to monoball?

[SilverSlug]

So I just installed Dinan strut tower bars, and about to install Dinan springs, and monoball kit up front.

Since I'm stiffening up the front with all that, should I be concerned with stiffening up the rear as well?

Do I need a rear row links or stiffer rear sway bar to compliment the front upgrades??

[SilverSlug]

I read that even many people who track their M's only stiffen up the front, and not so much the rear??

[DRLane]

Mono balls in the front tension arms tighten up the steering under heavy braking. They're great but I wouldn't describe it as stiffened. If you haven't already gone dinan consider GAS. The springs should help provide heavier rates and reduce some movement. Thought the strut bars were mostly cosmetic.

Based in these changes, I wouldn't say anything is needed on the rear as you haven't really altered much.

Spend the $$$ on tires, pads, and seat time.

[wyatth]

Their parts are designed to be used individually or as a package. But choosing some does not require you to add more, like rear toe links.
Dinan does not make a rear sway bar (and the strut bars are cosmetic). And monoballs are replacing a bushing, not shifting relative stiffness F/R or anything like that.
Fwiw my ZCP car has the Dinan plates, bar, and monoballs, but nothing in the rear (yet). It drives with wonderful balance and poise, should have left the factory like this.

[Mr_Reeves]

If you're going to do anything in the rear, then get solid subframe bushes done. Transforms the feeling and control of the rear.

Be warned though, it's quite a serious mod. Count on about 8-10 hours of labour to get this done by an experienced shop.

There are no drawbacks other than the cost.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by wyatth

Their parts are designed to be used individually or as a package. But choosing some does not require you to add more, like rear toe links.
Dinan does not make a rear sway bar (and the strut bars are cosmetic). And monoballs are replacing a bushing, not shifting relative stiffness F/R or anything like that.
Fwiw my ZCP car has the Dinan plates, bar, and monoballs, but nothing in the rear (yet). It drives with wonderful balance and poise, should have left the factory like this.

Agree. My e92 is mostly a street car so I kept stock zcp suspension but did camber plates (-2.5 in front) and monoballs just so in the event that felt like brining to the track, it could actually turn. I tend to threshold break and sometimes need to trail brake to rotate and nothing more frustrating that when the car doesnt turn.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Agree. My e92 is mostly a street car so I kept stock zcp suspension but did camber plates (-2.5 in front) and monoballs just so in the event that felt like brining to the track, it could actually turn. I tend to threshold break and sometimes need to trail brake to rotate and nothing more frustrating that when the car doesnt turn.

A subtle flex :

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by DRLane

A subtle flex :

Like u said earlier it tightens steering on heavy braking. I paired it with StopTech 380/365 and so the monoball with more neg camber suits a certain style of driving whether it be someone really good or a noob like me that likes to slam the brakes on the 1 marker to scare the sh1t outta drivers in front of me.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Like u said earlier it tightens steering on heavy braking. I paired it with StopTech 380/365 and so the monoball with more neg camber suits a certain style of driving whether it be someone really good or a noob like me that likes to slam the brakes on the 1 marker to scare the sh1t outta drivers in front of me.

I was just kidding about the threshold, trail. I'm right there with you man!

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by DRLane

I was just kidding about the threshold, trail. I'm right there with you man!

Ha I think OP should be good on his mods without doing anything in the rear. It wiggles a little but sometimes u got to wiggle it, just a little bit.

[PandaM3]

I'm also thinking of what to do on the rear as well.

I have 103,000 miles on it so I've been looking at a suspension refresh for street and track.

I already have camber plates, Bilstein coil overs, and front and rear stop techs trophy's. I also have the solid subframe bushings in the back and stiffer polyurethane diff mounts.

I just got the GAS monoballs for the front. I figure at 103k the rear is gonna need a refresh.

So I was thinking SPL adjustable toe links, then get the upgraded bimmerworld bushings for the trailing arm and spring carrier. Or is that too much or too little?

[911r]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

I'm also thinking of what to do on the rear as well.

I have 103,000 miles on it so I've been looking at a suspension refresh for street and track.

I already have camber plates, Bilstein coil overs, and front and rear stop techs trophy's. I also have the solid subframe bushings in the back and stiffer polyurethane diff mounts.

I just got the GAS monoballs for the front. I figure at 103k the rear is gonna need a refresh.

So I was thinking SPL adjustable toe links, then get the upgraded bimmerworld bushings for the trailing arm and spring carrier. Or is that too much or too little?

From my understanding, stock BMW rear toe links don't have any rubber bushings--they're already comprised of ball-joints. If you're planning on upgrading them for the sole purpose of refreshing your rear suspension, it wouldn't be worth it. If you're upgrading to adjustable toe links for ease of adjustment, so you can run them in conjunction with a lockout kit that will help keep your toe adjustment in place, etc., then I would be able to justify spending the money on adjustable rear toe links.

You already have Poly diff bushings, so I'd assume your tolerance for NVH is already higher than your typical forum member with a 100% stock M3...

From the research I've done, the general consensus for a street/track M3 rear suspension refresh is to do the bimmerworld camber arm bushing kit, in addition to replacing your worn out rubber bushings with spherical (OE BMW) bushings in the rear trailing arms, rear wishbones, and rear guide rods. It's also advised you purchase new rear trailing arms, new rear wishbones, and new rear guide rods to press these spherical bushings into if you have higher miles.

Additional info can be found here: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1781245

[Redd]

Originally Posted by 911r

From the research I've done, the general consensus for a street/track M3 rear suspension refresh is to do the bimmerworld camber arm bushing kit, in addition to replacing your worn out rubber bushings with spherical (OE BMW) bushings in the rear trailing arms, rear wishbones, and rear guide rods. It's also advised you purchase new rear trailing arms, new rear wishbones, and new rear guide rods to press these spherical bushings into if you have higher miles.

Additional info can be found here: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1781245

Rear trailing arm bushings are pressed into the hub and subframe. So there's no need to replace the trailing arm itself unless it's damaged.

[PandaM3]

Originally Posted by 911r

From my understanding, stock BMW rear toe links don't have any rubber bushings--they're already comprised of ball-joints. If you're planning on upgrading them for the sole purpose of refreshing your rear suspension, it wouldn't be worth it. If you're upgrading to adjustable toe links for ease of adjustment, so you can run them in conjunction with a lockout kit that will help keep your toe adjustment in place, etc., then I would be able to justify spending the money on adjustable rear toe links.

You already have Poly diff bushings, so I'd assume your tolerance for NVH is already higher than your typical forum member with a 100% stock M3...

From the research I've done, the general consensus for a street/track M3 rear suspension refresh is to do the bimmerworld camber arm bushing kit, in addition to replacing your worn out rubber bushings with spherical (OE BMW) bushings in the rear trailing arms, rear wishbones, and rear guide rods. It's also advised you purchase new rear trailing arms, new rear wishbones, and new rear guide rods to press these spherical bushings into if you have higher miles.

Additional info can be found here: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1781245

Thanks... exactly what i was looking for

[911r]

Originally Posted by Redd

Rear trailing arm bushings are pressed into the hub and subframe. So there's no need to replace the trailing arm itself unless it's damaged.

Should have said *reinforced* trailing arms from MK Rennsport, Future Classic, etc. Unnecessary though. Thanks for the input!

[PandaM3]

Originally Posted by 911r

From my understanding, stock BMW rear toe links don't have any rubber bushings--they're already comprised of ball-joints. If you're planning on upgrading them for the sole purpose of refreshing your rear suspension, it wouldn't be worth it. If you're upgrading to adjustable toe links for ease of adjustment, so you can run them in conjunction with a lockout kit that will help keep your toe adjustment in place, etc., then I would be able to justify spending the money on adjustable rear toe links.

You already have Poly diff bushings, so I'd assume your tolerance for NVH is already higher than your typical forum member with a 100% stock M3...

From the research I've done, the general consensus for a street/track M3 rear suspension refresh is to do the bimmerworld camber arm bushing kit, in addition to replacing your worn out rubber bushings with spherical (OE BMW) bushings in the rear trailing arms, rear wishbones, and rear guide rods. It's also advised you purchase new rear trailing arms, new rear wishbones, and new rear guide rods to press these spherical bushings into if you have higher miles.

Additional info can be found here: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1781245

I know you recommend not going full SPL arms in the rear suspension however I was thinking about that route as a back up since the custom washers may not be available for awhile. (I already ordered all the parts minus the custom washers)

However if I went full SPL arms... how much louder will that be vs just doing the suggested spherical bearing upgrade?

Since I have a good amount of miles on the car I need to replace the camber and guide links... if I just have the shop install new oem replacement camber and guide arms... would I need to realign again after upgrading those to spherical bearings down the line?

Maybe I’m just overthinking this and me being number 2 on the waitlist means I’ll be getting the washers soon...

[CPWINCH]

Originally Posted by PandaM3

I know you recommend not going full SPL arms in the rear suspension however I was thinking about that route as a back up since the custom washers may not be available for awhile. (I already ordered all the parts minus the custom washers)

However if I went full SPL arms... how much louder will that be vs just doing the suggested spherical bearing upgrade?

Since I have a good amount of miles on the car I need to replace the camber and guide links... if I just have the shop install new oem replacement camber and guide arms... would I need to realign again after upgrading those to spherical bearings down the line?

Maybe I’m just overthinking this and me being number 2 on the waitlist means I’ll be getting the washers soon...

Curious about these questions too, if anyone knows

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

Curious about these questions too, if anyone knows

On the rears I have the washers and solid bearings installed, along with the BW camber bushing/sleeve, and SPL toe link, sway end links. I don't hear anything but my car already has plenty of NVH.

I wouldn't think these are worthwhile upgrades outside of tracking the car on sticky tires. The OEM bushing are stout and the deflection is probably minimal until you increase power, suspension, grip.

SPL and the like's, advantage over the bearing refresh is adjustability. Just note your alignment costs are subject to go up. Some shops charge more given all the adjustable components as complexity.

After replacing the arms, bushings, etc. yes it's wise to realign.

[CPWINCH]

Originally Posted by DRLane

On the rears I have the washers and solid bearings installed, along with the BW camber bushing/sleeve, and SPL toe link, sway end links. I don't hear anything but my car already has plenty of NVH.

I wouldn't think these are worthwhile upgrades outside of tracking the car on sticky tires. The OEM bushing are stout and the deflection is probably minimal until you increase power, suspension, grip.

SPL and the like's, advantage over the bearing refresh is adjustability. Just note your alignment costs are subject to go up. Some shops charge more given all the adjustable components as complexity.

After replacing the arms, bushings, etc. yes it's wise to realign.

Makes sense, thank you. I will do washers and bearings for the arms and get adjustable toe links with lockout. Should be a good set up