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      09-03-2019, 03:44 AM   #23
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I wonder if the engine was modified to make more power in order to reach 305mph. more boost? bigger turbos?
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      09-03-2019, 09:05 AM   #24
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Bugatti formally announces it's retiring from chasing speed records

https://www.motor1.com/news/368539/b...speed-records/
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      09-03-2019, 09:25 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
seems like their singular focus is on straight line speed.

there are impressive parts of the car, don't get me wrong. there are just many other cars that i feel would be much more fun to have for much less money.
So when you're able to spend this much money it isn't just about being the fastest as you would never get to drive the car anywhere near it's limit, it's about exclusivity. Sure there are cars that can come close but they aren't as exclusive. And for the record, I don't think this car is a one trick pony......

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      09-03-2019, 11:17 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
In that link this sentence is not correct:
"What that means is Koenigsegg with the Jesko, Hennessey with the Venom F5, and SSC North America with the Tuatara are the remaining automakers interested in competing for the top speed record among production cars. "

As this bugatti is a purpose build car (and thus not a production car), Koenigsegg still has the top speed record among production cars
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      09-03-2019, 11:27 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
when standing at one end of the straight you cannot see the far end due to the curvature of the Earth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko M View Post
when standing at one end of the straight you cannot see the far end due to the curvature of the Earth.
Lies...

Everyone knows the Earth is flat...
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      09-03-2019, 12:04 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Uber Commuter View Post
Lies...

Everyone knows the Earth is flat...
I was wondering how long it would take.
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      09-03-2019, 12:21 PM   #29
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The Chiron is beautiful to me, 100x better looking than the Veyron.
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      09-03-2019, 01:00 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
In that link this sentence is not correct:
"What that means is Koenigsegg with the Jesko, Hennessey with the Venom F5, and SSC North America with the Tuatara are the remaining automakers interested in competing for the top speed record among production cars. "

As this bugatti is a purpose build car (and thus not a production car), Koenigsegg still has the top speed record among production cars
Hard to believe that Bugatti won't eventually release this as the GrandSport version(without the special tires).

Either way, extremely impressive as usual from the their camp. I'm more impressed with these cars than any of the other hyper speed exotics, mainly due to its ease of use and safety margins.
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      09-03-2019, 01:07 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
In that link this sentence is not correct:
"What that means is Koenigsegg with the Jesko, Hennessey with the Venom F5, and SSC North America with the Tuatara are the remaining automakers interested in competing for the top speed record among production cars. "

As this bugatti is a purpose build car (and thus not a production car), Koenigsegg still has the top speed record among production cars
I don't know if I'd call the Koenigsegge or the Bugatti "production" or "purpose" built. They are both bespoke aren't they, built to order? And I think you could argue both are purpose built to go elfin' fast.
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      09-03-2019, 01:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
I don't know if I'd call the Koenigsegge or the Bugatti "production" or "purpose" built. They are both bespoke aren't they, built to order? And I think you could argue both are purpose built to go elfin' fast.
The koenigsegg agera RS is/was for sale and 25 have been build and sold in 3 years. (note, this is the RS version, I dont know the total # from the complete agera production run (7 years)
The Koenigsegg record run was afaik not even made by koenigsegg themselves (although they were present), but by a US customer. (at least, that's what I've heard)

This car is solely build for this run. None have been sold. This is a purpose build one off as we speak.
So there is a big difference in that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
Hard to believe that Bugatti won't eventually release this as the GrandSport version(without the special tires).
Maybe but thats anticipating the facts.

Quote:
Either way, extremely impressive as usual from the their camp. I'm more impressed with these cars than any of the other hyper speed exotics, mainly due to its ease of use and safety margins.
Sure its impressive, even if its backed by a 200+billion dollar company.
But David still has the production car record, not Goliath, as this is imho not a run with a production car.

The Bugatti's may be build more of a luxury car (certainly the interior), but the amount of technical innovations they bring is a bit disappointing, certainly if you compare it to koenigsegg.
But I look at cars probably more from a technical pov. Certainly these high performance hypercars. I dont really care how soft the leather is, but if they use a for instance a completely new invented anti rollbar system, or method to control the valves in the cylinder head in ways other manufacturers never dreamt of, thats the sort of thing I like. And on that front Koenigsegg does things that no other hypercar manufacturer can rival, without the backing of huge companies. They do everything themselves, and in that way they are pretty much unique.
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Last edited by GuidoK; 09-03-2019 at 02:20 PM..
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      09-03-2019, 02:32 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
when standing at one end of the straight you cannot see the far end due to the curvature of the Earth.
TRIGGERED
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      09-03-2019, 04:38 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
The Bugatti's may be build more of a luxury car (certainly the interior), but the amount of technical innovations they bring is a bit disappointing, certainly if you compare it to koenigsegg.
But I look at cars probably more from a technical pov. Certainly these high performance hypercars. I dont really care how soft the leather is, but if they use a for instance a completely new invented anti rollbar system, or method to control the valves in the cylinder head in ways other manufacturers never dreamt of, thats the sort of thing I like. And on that front Koenigsegg does things that no other hypercar manufacturer can rival, without the backing of huge companies. They do everything themselves, and in that way they are pretty much unique.
While I give CK credit for his out of the box thinking like the Jesko trans, I'd argue the Bugatti's ability to trundle around town like a VW Golf, or handle inclement weather like a regular A4 Quattro, and then do something like run at 250mph+ all within the same day is the innovation.
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      09-04-2019, 02:23 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by See5 View Post
While I give CK credit for his out of the box thinking like the Jesko trans, I'd argue the Bugatti's ability to trundle around town like a VW Golf, or handle inclement weather like a regular A4 Quattro, and then do something like run at 250mph+ all within the same day is the innovation.
So basically you value 4wd and soft interior leather as an innovation because those other things a koenigsegg can do just as well.
And the agera RS has proven itself faster in both top speed and acceleration and decelleratiopn than the chiron (the one that is for sale at least).

But yes, then we have a different idea of what innovation is about.
But like I said, I'm a techie, and therefore I value the technical innovations a tiny company like Koenigsegg can do and a 200+billion backed company just can't. That shows to me that the people/engineers working at koenigsegg are of a completely different class than those work at other car manufacturers. To do and invent those things as such a small company is truely a unique efford.

Think of it, some examples:
- reinvent the anti rollbar, a concept that has been the same for 100 years or so, so to have more control and adjustability over corners. (triplex suspension)
- Completely rethink the way air gets into and out of an engine. (freevalve)
- First car to ever feature hollow spoke all carbon wheels.
- make a hybrid car without a gearbox (regera), that can do 0-300kph in under 11sec, over 2 sec faster than a chiron.

Bugatti:
......(other than soft leather and 4wd)

The complexity of those innovations and the efford these things take to do as a company with 200 employees without backing of a huge 200+billion mothercompany, is unique.

And another thing, Koenigsegg can do all this on a profitable margin.
Bugatti functions now as a big riding VAG advertisement. Apparantly it needs to sell 500 chirons to hit the break even point.
Koenigsegg hasnt even made so many cars in their entire history and manages to do more things, complexer things AND make money.
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      09-04-2019, 07:23 AM   #36
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Still prefer the original video of James May driving the Veyron. That was actually fun and enjoyable to watch.

Nonetheless Chiron is a monster.
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      09-04-2019, 07:26 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
Bugatti:
......(other than soft leather and 4wd)
3D printed brakes.





























....oh wait, that was Brembo
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      09-04-2019, 06:23 PM   #38
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First VW Group does this then unveils the Taycan.

What a week for them.
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      09-05-2019, 06:05 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoK View Post
So basically you value 4wd and soft interior leather as an innovation because those other things a koenigsegg can do just as well.
And the agera RS has proven itself faster in both top speed and acceleration and decelleratiopn than the chiron (the one that is for sale at least).

But yes, then we have a different idea of what innovation is about.
But like I said, I'm a techie, and therefore I value the technical innovations a tiny company like Koenigsegg can do and a 200+billion backed company just can't. That shows to me that the people/engineers working at koenigsegg are of a completely different class than those work at other car manufacturers. To do and invent those things as such a small company is truely a unique efford.

Think of it, some examples:
- reinvent the anti rollbar, a concept that has been the same for 100 years or so, so to have more control and adjustability over corners. (triplex suspension)
- Completely rethink the way air gets into and out of an engine. (freevalve)
- First car to ever feature hollow spoke all carbon wheels.
- make a hybrid car without a gearbox (regera), that can do 0-300kph in under 11sec, over 2 sec faster than a chiron.

Bugatti:
......(other than soft leather and 4wd)

The complexity of those innovations and the efford these things take to do as a company with 200 employees without backing of a huge 200+billion mothercompany, is unique.

And another thing, Koenigsegg can do all this on a profitable margin.
Bugatti functions now as a big riding VAG advertisement. Apparantly it needs to sell 500 chirons to hit the break even point.
Koenigsegg hasnt even made so many cars in their entire history and manages to do more things, complexer things AND make money.
They’re obviously very competent builders and designers.
Since very few of us will ever drive these cars in a comparison, it’s just arguing over car stats printed in Road and Track.
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      09-05-2019, 06:16 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHudson View Post
They’re obviously very competent builders and designers.
Since very few of us will ever drive these cars in a comparison, it’s just arguing over car stats printed in Road and Track.
The innovations koenigsegg has made aren't just carstats in Road and Track.

Eventually, hopefully some of those innovations will trigger down into ordinairy cars. With freevalve koenigsegg now runs a development project with quoros, to perfect it and make it feasable for a normal production car in large volumes.
And that's quite an achievement for a small 200 employee company so be so innovative on this scale. There aren't many of such companies in the world that can claim similar things as they're doing this all by themselves and are not backed up by a huge conglommerate..

Koenigsegg also felt that they had to improve on DSG gearbox technology, so they developed a new type of gearbox themselves
Bugatti (with their VAG backing) just went to Ricardo (independant gearbox manufacturer) and outsourced their gearbox issues/development.

So its not just carstats; how the 2 companies function and what their attitude is toward their product is imho completely different.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 3GFX View Post
3D printed brakes.
Bugatti 3d prints their calipers. For that they bought a machine from SLM Solutions https://www.slm-solutions.com/
The 3d printing is not 'their own' technology.
Although I dont know if these 3d printed calipers are yet actually fitted to the chirons that are being sold now.
This chiron brake caliper:



Obviously isnt the same as this 3d printed caliper:

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Last edited by GuidoK; 09-05-2019 at 06:56 AM..
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      09-05-2019, 09:45 AM   #41
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Outsourcing to other companies isn’t a bad thing. Using other companies development and innovation is time saving, proven and cost effective.

You’re portraying a “David and Goliath” scenario, which is really portraying two very distinctively different vehicles.

My response was accurate. While you have chosen your favourite, it is not from an actual test drive, it’s from your reading and individual passion of what “David” has built within the limitations of a smaller manufacturer compared to “Goliath” with big bucks and support of the larger manufacturer.

Doing something “yourself” doesn’t automatically make it better. The new corvette stingray designed a better DSG for the car; so therefore it’s better than other manufacturers? It is it just better for their applications.

With most auto groups, the proof is in endurance racing. Here it’s just idealistic literature of things you will never see race in competition or even drive. So wether it’s Road and Track or a periodical; it’s still magazine racing.
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      09-05-2019, 10:53 AM   #42
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This is insane and impressive asf. I did 186MPH in my CLS 55 with 030 package back in 2006. Not even 24 hours after taking home brand new from the dealer. Wanted to test the 030 package. (Don't believe in break in) I cant imagine 120mph more. I'll never forget I passed two cars and it felt as if they were coming at me not me going by them.

I have found a nice stretch of road recently, 3.5 miles straight and flat as I do want to get this GT3 to max.
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      09-05-2019, 10:56 AM   #43
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Quote:
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This is insane and impressive asf. I did 186MPH in my CLS 55 with 030 package back in 2006. Not even 24 hours after taking home brand new from the dealer. Wanted to test the 030 package. (Don't believe in break in) I cant imagine 120mph more. I'll never forget I passed two cars and it felt as if they were coming at me not me going by them.

I have found a nice stretch of road recently, 3.5 miles straight and flat as I do want to get this GT3 to max.
Tell me about it, I drove about the same speed on Autobahn last year.

I can imagine 300mph
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      09-05-2019, 10:57 AM   #44
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehra-Lessien

The facility features 96 km (60 miles) of private tarmac, which includes a large variety of road surfaces and curves, used as test tracks to evaluate new and prototype vehicles. More significantly, there is a high speed circuit with a straight approximately 8.7 km (5.4 mi) long. Although the straight portion of the track is perfectly flat and level for the entire length, when standing at one end of the straight you cannot see the far end due to the curvature of the Earth.
WAIT! I thought the earth was flat
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