HPDE experiments, results and observations

[rhyary]

Homework

[rhyary]

Why, in part, I moved away from adjustable sway bars.
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Adjustable sway bar is an inexpensive way to control front/rear stiffness if you have non adjustable shocks. But since I do, I don't need adjustable bar.
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[admranger]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Thanks. will look for the 2"

Works great and is easy to take off when it’s time for new tires.

Be gentle as you install it or it’ll rip over the weight corners.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by admranger

Works great and is easy to take off when it's time for new tires.

Be gentle as you install it or it'll rip over the weight corners.

Thanks for your suggestions. I did all four wheels and right away I realized it is more complicated than you would think.

Everything I do always end up being complicated.

So first, I did not want to put the tape on the full length of the weight. I only wanted to tape the end.

So when you tape it, the weight edge drops in a 90 degree angle. So do I tape it creating a slop with an air pocket? or do I try to make the tape follow the 90 degree then extend to the wheel.

I tried it both ways but neither looks conclusively better that the other way.

Open to suggestions

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Thanks for your suggestions. I did all four wheels and right away I realized it is more complicated than you would think.

Everything I do always end up being complicated.

So first, I did not want to put the tape on the full length of the weight. I only wanted to tape the end.

So when you tape it, the weight edge drops in a 90 degree angle. So do I tape it creating a slop with an air pocket? or do I try to make the tape follow the 90 degree then extend to the wheel.

I tried it both ways but neither looks conclusively better that the other way.

Open to suggestions

I just tape the whole way

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

I just tape the whole way

That does not tell me what to do with the edges.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by rhyary

That does not tell me what to do with the edges.

I try to remove any pockets so that tape follows the shape of the weights. Main thing is that tape has good and smooth contact area on the rim.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

I try to remove any pockets so that tape follows the shape of the weights. Main thing is that tape has good and smooth contact area on the rim.

got it.

[rhyary]

Can someone with direct experience chime in on the choice between MPSC2 and BPRE-71R

265/35/19

BRIDGESTONE POTENZA RE-71R
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2

The Cup-2 2016 are going for $286 on Tirerack and the RE71R are $315.

Normally the Cup2 are closer to $400 a piece

[rhyary]

Car is now at Autocouture for pre-pre-season work.

I can't thanks Autocouture enough for their support thru the years ever since I chose them to install the ESS Supercharge. It is not easy for me to get there, 2 hours driving each way, but they have accommodated my schedule and are a treat to visit every time I get there.

The car is in for the 2 solid bushings in the rear, some warranty work on the Rogue Engineering rear control arms (there are three there, collectively I call them control arms because they control something, technically they have different names)

The slonik DCT pan developed a drip, so that needs to be redone and cured dry.

Lastly, we will try to achieve -3.5 camber on the front, and adjust the rear to -2.2 or similar. I am less clear on the rear.

On the way to ACM I adjusted rebound +1 click to see its affect. I feel a difference, but I can't quantify/qualify it. According to my potentiometers the shocks still extend about the same after a bump. So will try that for a while.

I mounted the track tire set to make sure I can go to my March 28th first trackday. I was concerned making changes on my road set, only to find out that the track set is rubbing some place.

I already mentioned I am starting the year on FFI500 275/30/19 and MPSS 275/35/19 to see what I can do at LRP.

I am starting 3 days at LRP, and then few day at NYST. So will see how the square setup does at LRP and see what I want to mount for NYST

[admranger]

Rebound affects the speed the shocks extend, not the distance (unless you crank them so high they overpower the springs and jack the car down as it goes over bumps!).

2.1-2.2 on the rear will be good. Check tire temps but I’d bet that’s plenty of camber in the back.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by admranger

Rebound affects the speed the shocks extend, not the distance (unless you crank them so high they overpower the springs and jack the car down as it goes over bumps!).

2.1-2.2 on the rear will be good. Check tire temps but I'd bet that's plenty of camber in the back.

Thanks.
Yes I know it affect the speed.

But the display shows me some what of an average, so if the speed was too slow, you will see negative number develops over series of bumps because potentiometer is not extending back to 0 before the next bump happens.

If the rebound is too quick, I will see a -10 then a +5 then back to 0.

If the rebound is good, I will see a -10 the back to 0.

If too slow hypothetically I will see over few seconds -10 to -1 then -10 to -2 the -10 to -3 etc

The issue is range of clicks that are coming back to 0 over few bumps but at somewhat a slower or faster rate.

Testing on the road just tells me when it is obviously wrong. If I developed a negative number it is is too slow. What I don't know is which setting that is still good will get me from 1:35 to 1:34 at NYST or 59 at LRP

[rhyary]

Slonik DCT pan.
It was the culprit of the leak, as I was suspecting.

ACM redid the mounting letting the RTV cure over night. Perhaps the first time we did not let it cure long enough.

[rhyary]

I am well aware that "reading" is not substitute to "driving". While over analyzing may not make you faster, learning how to go fast has value, even if it does not necessarily make one faster.

Anyway, March 28th seems to be far in the future, and this book I can enjoy at 10f degree day.
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The chapter on tires is close to my heart :-)

[Ximian]

I've been watching the Driver61 videos on YouTube while at the gym which is nice as they're fairly short and reiterate good tips to keep in mind to progress - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtb...EpwUQhFUyPQU9Q

Some of Ross Bently's podcasts had good tips but they never go in-depth as some of them are usually sales pitches for something. That "Physics of Racing" video was pretty good in comparison.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by Ximian

I've been watching the Driver61 videos on YouTube while at the gym which is nice as they're fairly short and reiterate good tips to keep in mind to progress - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtb...EpwUQhFUyPQU9Q

Some of Ross Bently's podcasts had good tips but they never go in-depth as some of them are usually sales pitches for something. That "Physics of Racing" video was pretty good in comparison.

I also find Driver61 to be helpful.
I also subscribed to AIM channel.

Today I was working on the gsum channel to analyze my lat and long g forces. I only worked on NYST turn one. I got to see all the other turns and other laps.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by admranger

Each tire (e.g., R7) has a sweet spot for camber.

Underrated post. Vehicle alignment is heavily dependent on the tire being run. If you are changing tire compounds often, you will need to plan on frequent alignments.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by dparm

Underrated post. Vehicle alignment is heavily dependent on the tire being run. If you are changing tire compounds often, you will need to plan on frequent alignments.

Technically, yes alignment for every time I change tires, wet vs dry, hot vs cold, click the JRZs. But practically, no. Alignment stays the same between track days.

ACM is finishing up Turner solid subframe bushings and do88 DCT oil cooler because the car is already in the shop. Then figuring out the alignment.

We did corner weight balancing for the 2019 track season. But to corner weight balance 3500Lbs requires to much hight differences.

So I am prioritizing hight vs weight. We are dropping the front 5mm and evening out the hight left to right. Then focusing in the rake.

The results will be somewhat a lower car, with preliminary checking before the bushings were installed shows 5mm.

We also took a better ratio measurements between the shock travel and the pots travel

The front travel is shock : potentiometer 2.86:1
the rear is 1.04:1

So once programmed into the math channel of the EVO5 we will have an accurate shock travel in the cockpit and on lap traces.

AIM has "Suspension" analysis and flipping to "advance" allows me to see mm/sec. At the NYST best lap on Hoosier I was getting to 400mm/sec that I am waiting to hear back from JRZ what should be a starting point. Is it too fast? too slow?

It looks like the fronts are good, but the rear rebound is too fast. This topic will get more attention in 2020.

Can't wait to get aligment results from ACM on Tue.

[rhyary]

Recap of tuning dumping and rebound

[dparm]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Today I was working on the gsum channel to analyze my lat and long g forces. I only worked on NYST turn one. I got to see all the other turns and other laps.

I would recommend having a friction circle chart in your datalogging software. It is a very underutilized visual representation of how well you are transitioning between acceleration, deceleration, and turning. I rarely look at the individual lat G or long G outputs anymore except to maybe see if my sustained Gs on a given lap were lower than they were previously.

Bonus if the software can do a plot of all the friction circle points simultaneously for a given lap.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by dparm

I would recommend having a friction circle chart in your datalogging software. It is a very underutilized visual representation of how well you are transitioning between acceleration, deceleration, and turning. I rarely look at the individual lat G or long G outputs anymore except to maybe see if my sustained Gs on a given lap were lower than they were previously.

Bonus if the software can do a plot of all the friction circle points simultaneously for a given lap.

I can do friction in Aim, But I have been mostly analyzing the g-sum which is pretty much the same idea as the friction.

It allows me to see if I can maintain the g force all throughout the braking turning and accelerating phases.

I have been studying it extensively in prep for 2020. Depressing how many tenths i can save.

At the same time my g-sum is decent as far as transitioning maintaining over 1.1 during the whole turn. I think/hope I can get to 1.3.

[bbnks2]

Originally Posted by rhyary

I can do friction in Aim, But I have been mostly analyzing the g-sum which is pretty much the same idea as the friction.

It allows me to see if I can maintain the g force all throughout the braking turning and accelerating phases.

I have been studying it extensively in prep for 2020. Depressing how many tenths i can save.

At the same time my g-sum is decent as far as transitioning maintaining over 1.1 during the whole turn. I think/hope I can get to 1.3.

I used to think high g-force was a good thing to see in every corner. Not so much anymore. If you have forward/acceleration G through a turn you won;t be at max lateral G. So, only a very small moment in each turn should spike to peak lateral G and the rest should be sharing braking or acceleration G's. Unless you are in a steady state long sweeper aka maintaining the same steering input through the corner for an extended period like you would on a skidpad.