How do I know if I got screwed on labor at a shop?

[togepi]

Apologize for this post being vague because I don't know if the shop owner is on here, but I got a few things done on my car at a local bmw shop the other day and got billed a pretty large amount (at least I had thought so). There was no hours spent, no rate per hour, just a flat $$ amount on the bill. I had no intention of disputing this kind of stuff on the spot, but the amount was a bit shocking to me. The one thing that was listed was that the oil change was $320 and it's usually 220 when I take it to EAS (155 materials, 55 labor, 10 tax). Can I PM someone my bill to get an opinion?

[waterpanda]

I think it's only fair that you ask for the itemized invoice and have the shop follow the standard business practice.

[tdott]

You really should ask questions before authorizing work to your car.

[wheezyF]

320 for an oil change is insane, you should contact the shop immediately

[kolosy]

just post the bill and black out the identifying bits

[pedro2u]

As a a comparison, my Indy charged me $239.45 for the oil change on my M3. The $239 included a Blackstone Labs oil analysis

Labor: perform oil service 0.30 hrs @$145hr = $43.50
Blackstone Oil Analysis = $30.00
Parts: Oil Filter Kit w/ O-Ring 1 @ $31.79 = $31.79
Motor Oil 10W-60 RaceTec 8.8L @$13.62 = $119.8

hope this helps!

[Vuu]

Call the shop out, who cares? It's not like you're bashing them. You're just a concerned customer.

If they aren't practicing standard business practices, calling them out will prevent other enthusiast on getting screwed over too.

Keep them accountable.

[1SloeEm3]

Originally Posted by togepi

Apologize for this post being vague because I don't know if the shop owner is on here, but I got a few things done on my car at a local bmw shop the other day and got billed a pretty large amount (at least I had thought so). There was no hours spent, no rate per hour, just a flat $$ amount on the bill. I had no intention of disputing this kind of stuff on the spot, but the amount was a bit shocking to me. The one thing that was listed was that the oil change was $320 and it's usually 220 when I take it to EAS (155 materials, 55 labor, 10 tax). Can I PM someone my bill to get an opinion?

Post the shop and what they billed you.who cares.I’ll tell you that precision german performance in OC seriously Fxxked me over on a head gasket repair on my e46 back when I was 17.The dumbass tech didn’t even set the cars timing nor did they torque down the cams or the lifters.The car came out with vanos issues even tho it didn’t have any when it went in.A 2,400 lesson.Thanks to them no one touches any of my vehicles🤣

[chief]

For what its worth, I know that my local BMW Dealer charges over $300 for an oil change. They have charged this for years. In fact, I think a full oil service is now closer to $500 with the big run up in expenses the last couple of years.

[Davisca455]

Originally Posted by 1SloeEm3

Post the shop and what they billed you.who cares.I’ll tell you that precision german performance in OC seriously Fxxked me over on a head gasket repair on my e46 back when I was 17.The dumbass tech didn’t even set the cars timing nor did they torque down the cams or the lifters.The car came out with vanos issues even tho it didn’t have any when it went in.A 2,400 lesson.Thanks to them no one touches any of my vehicles🤣

I'm with you.
If I can do the work, I absolutely will.
If I don't know how to do a particular job, then I search here and on YouTube.
Yes, there are great shops that do great work, but NOBODY loves my car more than I do.

[GotV8?]

Originally Posted by chief

For what its worth, I know that my local BMW Dealer charges over $300 for an oil change. They have charged this for years. In fact, I think a full oil service is now closer to $500 with the big run up in expenses the last couple of years.

I paid $475.00 plus tax for an oil change on my wife's 2021 E450 sedan...which included checking air pressure on all tires, tire rotations, top off all liquids.....lol...a long list of useless itemize ways to charge us when materials was probably only $150.00 if that....and it probably took the mechanic less than an hour to do the job. Oh well, sometimes we simply pay just to avoid DIY... I don't mind working on my E92, but lately been too busy to even do my own oil change. lol

[omgzirra_exe]

i mean... lets see

$127 oil change kit? ok
$30 oil analysis? ok

Labor rate? probably charged you the full hour if their labor rate is $193 per hour lol.

most shops will do that, some BMW dealers might, they for sure don't charge half an hour.

gotta keep in mind, your car is hot af. so they probably charge that .5hr to let it cool down on their lift, then .5hr to change the oil.

indy shop? probably boned you, id just expose them.

to be honest, some shops are charging $220 flat for oil changes w/ everything in socal

[Merlin_83]

Greetings,

Here is my take on the dealer and Indy shops:

I still take my M3 to the dealer, it has low miles and the dealer has done 'good will' repair aka no-charge repairs in the past. This occurred when I had documented one of the headlights having some condensation, at the time the car was under warranty still. The SA said he would (and did) add the issue with condensation being present to the notes in the service history of the car.

Fast forward about a year later, and the driver's side headlight was having serious condensation issues. I had brought with me OEM service bulletins about this with me, and shared this with the SA at the time, in the end after they tried changing the ballast, controllers, and HID bulbs, none of those things helped - they went full bore and replaced both right and left headlight assemblies - everything - the guy comes over and said well, it would be $6,200 for the repair, but since you had this documented prior in the service notes and have BMW TSB's about the issue we're going to goodwill the charges. He said the one thing they could not goodwill was the labor, so I ended up paying out of pocket about $560 for labor - which I was fine with to have two completely new headlights, ballasts, controllers, HID bulbs, etc. - For those wondering, some of the headlight assemblies from the factory can be prone to warping or not sealing at the seams, that was the issue.

Sometimes it pays to have the leverage of the dealer and their resources to get a positive outcome for you the customer, not always - but I did with that issue.


Now, my (2) 335i's I take to a great Indy shop in downtown Portland, called DynaSport. They are all BMW and Mini aficionados and lovers of all stuff BMW - great, great place.


Cheers,
Merlin

[togepi]

Originally Posted by kolosy

just post the bill and black out the identifying bits

Here it is:

View post on imgur.com

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by togepi

Here it is:

View post on imgur.com

Yes, the $1800 labor that's not itemized is a rip off. They can't in any way or good conscience charge effectively 10-12 hours depending on their rates for the work they're describing.

The most complex part is the pulleys, but I guess an hour of work. It's a single bolt and disconnect and the fan pulls out. Then you can access the idle and tension pulleys. They're each literally a bolt…

Fuck this shop.

For context, you can install a supercharger in 10 hours.

[togepi]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Yes, the $1800 labor that's not itemized is a rip off. They can't in any way or good conscience charge effectively 10-12 hours depending on their rates for the work they're describing.

The most complex part is the pulleys, but I guess an hour of work. It's a single bolt and disconnect and the fan pulls out. Then you can access the idle and tension pulleys. They're each literally a bolt…

Fuck this shop.

For context, you can install a supercharger in 10 hours.

Thank you for the input, this is what I had suspected. Unfortunately, replacing spark plugs and doing oil changes is as much maintenance as I'm familiar with. How much would you estimate this work to take? I'm going to talk to the shop owner about this

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by togepi

Thank you for the input, this is what I had suspected. Unfortunately, replacing spark plugs and doing oil changes is as much maintenance as I'm familiar with. How much would you estimate this work to take? I'm going to talk to the shop owner about this

EDIT: on the invoice they told you upfront the AC / PS pulley was going to be $1900? Seems like that's the culprit. If this is what was quoted I guess I'm not sure there is anything to do?

Original Response:
I think 1 hour oil change, 2 hours tops on the pulleys, and 1 hour on the bulbs / "check tire pressures, hood shocks, etc is more than sufficient. Again, the fact that it's not itemized labor is bullshit. If they're incompetent than at least prove where they struggled.

Unfortunately, it'll be an uphill battle. Other than to aggressively voice your displeasure and disclosure you're sharing the full invoice on the respective forums, and social media.

There is a trove of information for 95% of DIY maintenance on this forum. Get a basic set of metric sockets, wrenches and torque wrench as you can do everything to this car with a little bit of patient and gusto. Strongly recommend to avoid these situations in the future.

Good luck!

[DRLane]

@togepi I updated my last response. Seems like they quoted the bulk of the repair up front?

[Davisca455]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Yes, the $1800 labor that's not itemized is a rip off. They can't in any way or good conscience charge effectively 10-12 hours depending on their rates for the work they're describing.

The most complex part is the pulleys, but I guess an hour of work. It's a single bolt and disconnect and the fan pulls out. Then you can access the idle and tension pulleys. They're each literally a bolt…

Fuck this shop.

For context, you can install a supercharger in 10 hours.

Just to verify…^…you can take this 10hr estimate for a supercharger install to the bank, it is NOT some wild exaggeration.

I've removed my supercharger kit and installed all the stock parts, including spark plugs and fuel injectors, in 5 hours.
Another 2ish hours to swap the exhaust.

[wyatth]

Originally Posted by Davisca455

I'm with you.
If I can do the work, I absolutely will.
If I don't know how to do a particular job, then I search here and on YouTube.
Yes, there are great shops that do great work, but NOBODY loves my car more than I do.

I might. But we'd both rather you be the one wrenching on it.

Seems like OP got hosed, all of that sounds extremely marked up. Let us know what the shop says.

[togepi]

Originally Posted by DRLane

@togepi I updated my last response. Seems like they quoted the bulk of the repair up front?

It may have been quoted on the invoice, but nothing about the charges were relayed to me over the phone, before the repairs were done. Obviously my mistake for not asking, but I just wasn’t used to it because my car needed to be towed to a shop after my belt snapped, so I just took it to one close by. The usual shops I go to charge very reasonable rates, so I’ve never got in the habit of asking. I sensed something was off when I went to pick up my car, he gave me a whole spiel about how honest of a person he is and just went on and on and how he “cleaned my engine bay for free…I usually charge $1xx for it.” 🤮

I will attempt to get some money back and give an update

[wheezyF]

Hope you get something back, 1800$ labor for this amount of work is ridiculous... I wonder which shop this is