BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (IMSA, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..)
 
European Auto Source (EAS)
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-09-2019, 05:03 PM   #45
SonnyJack
Captain
United_States
169
Rep
712
Posts

Drives: '09 E92 M3 6MT Jerez Black
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Laurel, MD

iTrader: (1)

In other news

Has Bottas raced himself out of a job? Effort seemed very pedestrian.

K-Mag complaining about his car being awful to drive after he totaled it the day before. Gunther seemed more than a bit peeved. Maybe Bottas can have that seat next year?
__________________
AA Gen 3 Lvl 2 w/Meth; ESS Full Exhaust w/HFC; Dinan Underdrive Pulley; P3 Gauge; VAC Coated Bearings; ARP Rod Bolts; Oil Diverter Valve; Dinan Strut Braces; Dinan Rear Toe Links; ECS Rear Trailing Arms; KWv3 Coilovers w/Swift Springs 448F/784R; Vorschlag Camber Plates; AKG 75D MM & 95A TM; CAE Shifter; Titan T-S5; StopTech ST60 380mm/ST40 355mm; MFactory DS; APR Splitter; APR GT250 Rear Wing; Autopower Rollbar; OMP WRC-R Seats
Appreciate 1
MKSixer14039.50

      06-09-2019, 05:20 PM   #46
NickyC
Major General
NickyC's Avatar
4949
Rep
5,490
Posts

Drives: YMB M4, has a roof though. :(
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Somewhere I don't want to be

iTrader: (17)

What a joke, where the hell is Seb supposed to go. Just when you think this joke of a sport can't go any lower.
Appreciate 1
minn195552.50

      06-09-2019, 05:27 PM   #47
Fliplegend
Second Lieutenant
Fliplegend's Avatar
United_States
108
Rep
200
Posts

Drives: 2015 328xi
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: NH

iTrader: (0)

Guess we're not allowed to have racing incidents any more.
__________________
15' 328ix Mineral White | Saddle Brown | Luxury | SAT
Appreciate 3
      06-09-2019, 05:36 PM   #48
fanatic1
Private First Class
fanatic1's Avatar
United_States
94
Rep
144
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4 CS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Carlsbad/San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 M4CS  [0.00]
The stewards have all the telemetry, all we see are steering inputs in the replay. VET has a tendency of staying in the throttle and likely contributed to the unsafe reentry.

In the end, it was still a fun race to watch, but we all wanted to see the winner decided on track, not by the stewards.
__________________
19 M4 CS LRG MPE
16 M4 AW DCT - gone
E92: 13 335is AW - gone/10 335 CP - gone
E30: 90 M3 - gone
74 2002tii - gone
Appreciate 6
      06-09-2019, 07:14 PM   #49
///M Power-Belgium
Lieutenant General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
18066
Rep
10,887
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)



__________________
BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 0
      06-09-2019, 07:33 PM   #50
hellrotm
Major General
2705
Rep
6,103
Posts

Drives: F80
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ...Location...Location

iTrader: (0)

Yes Vettel lost control of his car which caused him to unsafely re-enter the track. Therefore a penalty. He went all the way left to right. He did also technically cut the corner.

Not lifting going off doesn’t help his case. He clearly was attempting to stay in front while going off. You can see him still in it as he switches back to asphalt, he then loses the rear.

All this doesn’t happen if Vettel doesn’t bend yet again under pressure.

Last edited by hellrotm; 06-09-2019 at 07:39 PM..
Appreciate 3
MKSixer14039.50

      06-09-2019, 07:35 PM   #51
hellrotm
Major General
2705
Rep
6,103
Posts

Drives: F80
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ...Location...Location

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fanatic1 View Post
The stewards have all the telemetry, all we see are steering inputs in the replay. VET has a tendency of staying in the throttle and likely contributed to the unsafe reentry.

In the end, it was still a fun race to watch, but we all wanted to see the winner decided on track, not by the stewards.
+1
Appreciate 1
MKSixer14039.50

      06-09-2019, 07:36 PM   #52
hellrotm
Major General
2705
Rep
6,103
Posts

Drives: F80
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ...Location...Location

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
What a joke, where the hell is Seb supposed to go.
Staying on track is a start.

Last edited by hellrotm; 06-09-2019 at 07:42 PM..
Appreciate 2
jkoral258.50
MKSixer14039.50

      06-09-2019, 08:03 PM   #53
NickyC
Major General
NickyC's Avatar
4949
Rep
5,490
Posts

Drives: YMB M4, has a roof though. :(
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Somewhere I don't want to be

iTrader: (17)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Staying on track is a start.
Well it's "racing" (I know this is a foreign term to F1 for what, nearly 5 years now?) and shit happens. He didn't gain an advantage by going over the grass and he sure as hell wasn't in total control of the car when he moved over to the right. It's complete bullshit he was penalized and is the absolute last thing this non competitive shitty ass sport needed right now.
Appreciate 2
minn195552.50
bmw1racer679.50

      06-09-2019, 08:20 PM   #54
DieGrüneHölle
Colonel
1203
Rep
2,714
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bmw

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fanatic1 View Post
The stewards have all the telemetry, all we see are steering inputs in the replay. VET has a tendency of staying in the throttle and likely contributed to the unsafe reentry.

In the end, it was still a fun race to watch, but we all wanted to see the winner decided on track, not by the stewards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Yes Vettel lost control of his car which caused him to unsafely re-enter the track. Therefore a penalty. He went all the way left to right. He did also technically cut the corner.

Not lifting going off doesn’t help his case. He clearly was attempting to stay in front while going off. You can see him still in it as he switches back to asphalt, he then loses the rear.

All this doesn’t happen if Vettel doesn’t bend yet again under pressure.
I kinda get what some are seeing here. He lost control on the transition off the grass, because he didn't lift. I thought about if this was practice how would he have approached the off? He would have completely lifted at the first apex of the chicane knowing he wasn't making the second apex. He would not have entered the track out of control. Well the Vettel fans then say "it is a race". Exactly it was a race, he took a gamble and stayed on the load pedal through the grass. It didn't work out resulting in him shooting across the track on entry. I guess I see both sides. Unfortunate for Ferrari I think they have a curse this season.

Last edited by DieGrüneHölle; 06-09-2019 at 10:03 PM..
Appreciate 2
      06-09-2019, 08:29 PM   #55
DieGrüneHölle
Colonel
1203
Rep
2,714
Posts

Drives: M
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bmw

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonnyJack View Post
Has Bottas raced himself out of a job? Effort seemed very pedestrian.

K-Mag complaining about his car being awful to drive after he totaled it the day before. Gunther seemed more than a bit peeved. Maybe Bottas can have that seat next year?
Haas will definitely have driver changes in the off season. It would be interesting to see either Newgarden or Rossi in one of those seats eventually.
Appreciate 2
3798j349.00
SonnyJack168.50

      06-09-2019, 09:01 PM   #56
BeeMdblU
Lieutenant
BeeMdblU's Avatar
Canada
138
Rep
498
Posts

Drives: F86, F25
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Hamilton did the same to max a couple years ago in Monaco and the stewards brushed it off
Appreciate 0
      06-09-2019, 09:56 PM   #57
Rich.Wolfson
Private
21
Rep
67
Posts

Drives: 2014 M235i
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Caldwell, NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Vettel...”Where the hell was I to go?”

How about don’t go off the track in the first place.
Vettel was in complete control. He went right on purpose and knew exactly what he was doing. I also think the 5 second penalty is arbitrary. Why not 4 or 6? I also hate pit road penalties. He should have simply been told to let Hamilton pass and then have at him. THAT would have been a show.

I hate it when the car that gets the checkered, is not the winner. We had that in the Kentucky Derby too.

///Me
Appreciate 1
MKSixer14039.50

      06-09-2019, 10:20 PM   #58
Bartledoo
Just Some F****** Guy
Bartledoo's Avatar
United_States
657
Rep
1,111
Posts

Drives: 2011 E90 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fliplegend View Post
Guess we're not allowed to have racing incidents any more.
They should probably just penalize for any off track excursions, any contact, and institute a two spin DQ rule and point by passing only. We don't want these guys pushing harder than 8/10ths. This is an HPDE event after all. It's clearly very dangerous when the drivers pour their hearts into a race, even when they don't even so much as bump wheels in an incident...oh Hamilton had to brake :-( poor guy. Yea, Vettel should've let him past and stopped trying to be such a professional racecar driver by trying to and successfully recovering...

I love how upset every single F1 commentator seemed about it, because they are true race fans.
__________________
E90M 6MT Slicktop Single Humper
Appreciate 2
NickyC4948.50

      06-09-2019, 11:58 PM   #59
yco
ignorance is bliss..
yco's Avatar
601
Rep
858
Posts

Drives: E71 X6M '10
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Istanbul & Kyiv

iTrader: (0)

this is the full description of FIA's penalty decision.. says: "The stewards reviewed video evidence and determined that Car 5, left the track at turn 3, rejoined the track at turn 4 in an unsafe manner and forced car 44 off track. Car 44 had to take evasive action to avoid a collision." in short its unsafe entry and blocking.. why there is a need of braking because of blocking to pass.. take it easy guys..

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/s...lised/4461267/ ..

wish HAM could had a chance again to pass then this penalty d make no difference.. im saying it again.. this penalty is not right 100% but no one can tell everything was totally super ok also..
__________________
"Race car driving is like sex. All guys think they're good at it." Jay Leno

Last edited by yco; 06-10-2019 at 12:03 AM..
Appreciate 1
      06-10-2019, 01:23 AM   #60
Ximian
.
Ximian's Avatar
United_States
134
Rep
306
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: MN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich.Wolfson View Post
He should have simply been told to let Hamilton pass and then have at him. THAT would have been a show.
This is exactly what should have happened and there would have been "no further action" for the investigation. But Ferrari thought there wasn't going to be a penalty applied for the pretty obvious blocking so here we are. Any other track or corner, Hamilton would have been able to pass Vettel and Vettel would have been able to chase him down and win. The Ferrari had much better race pace.

The stewards were placed in a bad situation and I don't blame them for their decision.
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2019, 01:53 AM   #61
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
E90SLAM's Avatar
Hong Kong
1420
Rep
61,728
Posts

Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
The stewards took the text of the rule and apply the appropriate penalty. By book, Vettel DID indeed rejoined the track in an unsafe manner.

But IMO, I do not think that was the spirit of the rule. The intent to make this rule was to penalize drivers who went off track and decide to rejoin the track in an unsafe manner. Especially the tarmac run-offs, not gravel nor grass. So the driver can still have control of the car and apply any brake or steering to rejoin safely.

When the Ferrari back steps out slightly and went on to the grass run-off. The car had lost quite a bit of control, and Vettel was fighting to regain control. Hamilton saw the opportunity and went for it, didn't think of how much the Ferrari was still under control. Vettel could've easily crashed into the wall, or even collect Hamilton with it!

By the rules, it was a penalty, although it was harsh IMO.
__________________
Appreciate 3
      06-10-2019, 01:55 AM   #62
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
E90SLAM's Avatar
Hong Kong
1420
Rep
61,728
Posts

Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximian View Post
This is exactly what should have happened and there would have been "no further action" for the investigation. But Ferrari thought there wasn't going to be a penalty applied for the pretty obvious blocking so here we are. Any other track or corner, Hamilton would have been able to pass Vettel and Vettel would have been able to chase him down and win. The Ferrari had much better race pace.

The stewards were placed in a bad situation and I don't blame them for their decision.
Even if Vettel had let Hamilton pass, the stewards can still apply the same penalty. The infringement was for "rejoining the track in an unsafe manner", not "going off-track and gain an advantage".
__________________
Appreciate 1
minn195552.50

      06-10-2019, 03:32 AM   #63
mk1-fan
Lieutenant
mk1-fan's Avatar
South Africa
396
Rep
443
Posts

Drives: 2018 G30 540i
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Gauteng, South Africa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
The stewards took the text of the rule and apply the appropriate penalty. By book, Vettel DID indeed rejoined the track in an unsafe manner.

But IMO, I do not think that was the spirit of the rule. The intent to make this rule was to penalize drivers who went off track and decide to rejoin the track in an unsafe manner. Especially the tarmac run-offs, not gravel nor grass. So the driver can still have control of the car and apply any brake or steering to rejoin safely.

When the Ferrari back steps out slightly and went on to the grass run-off. The car had lost quite a bit of control, and Vettel was fighting to regain control. Hamilton saw the opportunity and went for it, didn't think of how much the Ferrari was still under control. Vettel could've easily crashed into the wall, or even collect Hamilton with it!

By the rules, it was a penalty, although it was harsh IMO.

Well said, and my sentiments exactly.
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2019, 07:44 AM   #64
Twt
Lieutenant
412
Rep
553
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
Yes Vettel lost control of his car which caused him to unsafely re-enter the track. Therefore a penalty. He went all the way left to right. He did also technically cut the corner.

Not lifting going off doesn’t help his case. He clearly was attempting to stay in front while going off. You can see him still in it as he switches back to asphalt, he then loses the rear.

All this doesn’t happen if Vettel doesn’t bend yet again under pressure.
A great driver, with a superior car, doesn't drive his mirrors, freak out and end up in the grass. I promise you if Hamilton left the track and returned to cut off Vettel the fans would be furious. I viewed this result as poetic justice....Vettel has shown us he is not the best at handling pressure so this is what happens. I was at the race and the roar of booing at Lewis was childish....he did not cause the incident and he did not impose the penalty....he was a victim of circumstances , none of which were his doing.
Appreciate 3
      06-10-2019, 09:04 AM   #65
ScottSinger
Brigadier General
1519
Rep
4,264
Posts

Drives: M235i 6spd
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
The stewards took the text of the rule and apply the appropriate penalty. By book, Vettel DID indeed rejoined the track in an unsafe manner.

But IMO, I do not think that was the spirit of the rule. The intent to make this rule was to penalize drivers who went off track and decide to rejoin the track in an unsafe manner. Especially the tarmac run-offs, not gravel nor grass. So the driver can still have control of the car and apply any brake or steering to rejoin safely.

When the Ferrari back steps out slightly and went on to the grass run-off. The car had lost quite a bit of control, and Vettel was fighting to regain control. Hamilton saw the opportunity and went for it, didn't think of how much the Ferrari was still under control. Vettel could've easily crashed into the wall, or even collect Hamilton with it!

By the rules, it was a penalty, although it was harsh IMO.
What's happening in lesser racing series, around the world, cars were going off losing speed and returning onto the track at a crawl or spinning mud coated wheels while another car was arriving on the scene at top speed. And there were subsequently brutal crashes.
In some series at the start you can't make any passes until you pass the start/finish line, even if two cars tangle along the grid and a back car swerves around, they will penalize that car that swerved to avoid incident. So, that's how serious track stewards are with unsafe re-entry - and maybe that is why top tier drivers try not to scrub off too much speed when missing a chicane.
Appreciate 0
      06-10-2019, 09:06 AM   #66
E90SLAM
Supreme Allied Commander
E90SLAM's Avatar
Hong Kong
1420
Rep
61,728
Posts

Drives: A BBS WHORE
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: .

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
https://www.facebook.com/wtf1officia...0450484002379/
__________________
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:58 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST