AP Racing Radical 2 VS ESSEX AP Racing Kit

[MPower7]

Hello,

I've done extensive brake research over the last few months and almost decided on the Essex AP racing kit. I know their caliper design is a bit different and is designed to be stiffest under braking.

Does anyone have experience with the Radical 2 kit? It looks like a monobloc design but can anyone compare the 2?




Thanks!

[slonik]

Originally Posted by MPower7

Hello,

I've done extensive brake research over the last few months and almost decided on the Essex AP racing kit. I know their caliper design is a bit different and is designed to be stiffest under braking.

Does anyone have experience with the Radical 2 kit? It looks like a monobloc design but can anyone compare the 2?




Thanks!

monoblock in two pieces . look on the rear side picture and find 4 bolts

[MPower7]

Originally Posted by slonik

monoblock in two pieces . look on the rear side picture and find 4 bolts

Yes, I think you are right! Any input?

[slicer]

That kit is more street oriented and I believe it presents more wheel fitment challenges (not many, if any, 18's fit over the 390 kit). Plus there are dust boots which tend to disintegrate on the track. Painted versus anodized calipers, also likely higher consumable costs. The essex kit is a big step up in performance.

[roastbeef]

the radical II has been around for a while. the essex radical is more rigid. i'm not 100% sure, but the radical II appears to have dust boots and the essex ap has high temp seals.

[slonik]

Originally Posted by MPower7

Yes, I think you are right! Any input?

nope, but i like their "cheating" design) many people think that they are monoblock.
i'm drawing our own calipers now (two-piece design) and i think i need to make the same trick.

radical 2 calipers have smaller pads, than 6 piston brembo calipers - 175mm long vs 190mm long brembo.


ps radical 2 calipers have smaller pads, than 6 piston brembo gt calipers - 175mm long vs 190mm long brembo. yep, its larger, than older ap racing models (152mm), but still not so huge like brembo - its one of the main parameters for modern heavy cars.

and its heavy - i'm really surprised why its weight 4.5kg (its A LOT), with a smaller pad than brembo, which weight 3.4 kg.

[StripclubDJ]

It's so damn heavy

[jritt@essex]

You're comparing a street brake kit vs. a racing brake kit. The Radi-CAL II is a road caliper, whereas the Pro5000R calipers that Essex offers are racing calipers. Below is a list of the standard features you'll see in a typical road/street kit vs. a racing/track kit, and these features hold true across all brands. That's why you'll see the road caliper features below in StopTech standard kits, Brembo GT kits, etc.

Road Brake Kits

Heavier (because they're used on a wider range of vehicles including trucks, so the caliper body must be bigger to accept larger piston diameters)

Painted finish to look pretty and resist road salt

Aluminum pistons, for cost purposes

Lower temperature internal seals that don't hold up as well to track temps, and need more frequent replacement/rebuild

Dust boots to keep road grime off the sides of the pistons

Often use pad shapes that have fewer racing pad compound choices

Run on larger discs for aethetic purposes

Discs have lower internal vane count and don't flow as much air (48 vanes)

Sometimes may have drill holes in discs, because crack resistance isn't the top priority (looks are)

Racing/Track-focused Brake Kits

Optimized to be as lightweight as possible. Each caliper optimized for a narrower range of vehicles, so a truck would typically use a different caliper style than an M3.

Anodized finish to resist brake fluid and color change under the heat of track conditions

Stainless steel or titanium pistons to resist boiling of the brake fluid. Pistons also commonly have ventilation to allow air to flow behind or through them

No dust boots, because they are completely useless as soon as they reach track temps and melt/crack

High temp internal racing seals that remain pliable at track temps and don't require as much replacement/rebuild

Use common pad shapes with lots of racing pad compound options

Calipers run on discs that are smaller in diameter that will fit inside smaller, lighter wheels (18's vs. 19/20" wheels)

Because the disc diameters are smaller, they use technology to shed heat rather than blunt mass. Racing discs have more internal vanes (60-84 vanes), specially shaped vanes, etc. to flow more air. Discs are also further optimized for weight reduction.

Discs have special face grooves to present more leading edges for the pads to bite into, but they do not use drilled holes because they are more prone to cracking.

[M3SQRD]

You should also consider the PFC Z54/Z45 brake kit - comparable to the Essex/AP brake kit. I have the PFC brake kit on my e92 M3 and the Essex/AP 9668/9449 brake kit on my f82 M4.

Essex/AP kit if you’re looking to increase performance and reduce weight.

Radical II street kit if your looking to show off, impress people with, large-dia rotors and increase weight.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

You should also consider the PFC Z54/Z45 brake kit - comparable to the Essex/AP brake kit. I have the PFC brake kit on my e92 M3 and the Essex/AP 9668/9449 brake kit on my f82 M4.

Essex/AP kit if you’re looking to increase performance and reduce weight.

Radical II street kit if your looking to show off, impress people with, large-dia rotors and increase weight.

Bingo. Essex/AP for track, Radical 2 for street.

/thread

[MPower7]

I do not want to compromise on the track could care less about looks or size. Seems like everything keeps leading me back to the AP ESSEX kit! But what about daily streetability with the AP ESSEX over the long term?

[M3SQRD]

When installing new pads, just remember to wipe down and/or use compressed air to remove dirt/debris from the outer surface of the pistons before pushing the pistons back into the caliper. This needs to be done whether the kit is used on the street or track.

[MPower7]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

You should also consider the PFC Z54/Z45 brake kit - comparable to the Essex/AP brake kit. I have the PFC brake kit on my e92 M3 and the Essex/AP 9668/9449 brake kit on my f82 M4.

Essex/AP kit if you’re looking to increase performance and reduce weight.

Radical II street kit if your looking to show off, impress people with, large-dia rotors and increase weight.

The Z54 and the ESSEX are definitely my top two choices right now. I believe the consumables are cheaper for the ESSEX but it's more expensive up front.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by MPower7

The Z54 and the ESSEX are definitely my top two choices right now. I believe the consumables are cheaper for the ESSEX but it's more expensive up front.

I only use PFC race pads. Comparing the price of PFC 11 pads, the PFC Z54 caliper pad is ~$310 (28 mm-thick) and the AP Racing 9668 caliper pad is ~$600 (25 mm-thick). The PFC V3 372 mm-dia rotor ring is ~$500, and the AP Racing 372 mm-dia rotor ring is $395.

PFC - pads less expensive, rotor rings more expensive

Essex/AP - pads more expensive, rotor rings less expensive

In the long run, I doubt the consumable costs will be significantly different.

[warp10]

Love the Essex Kit. I went with the endurance set up so you get a thicker pads.

I have been using the Freodo DS1.11 and love them. Last forever and take a beating.

[jritt@essex]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I only use PFC race pads. Comparing the price of PFC 11 pads, the PFC Z54 caliper pad is ~$310 (28 mm-thick) and the AP Racing 9668 caliper pad is ~$600 (25 mm-thick). The PFC V3 372 mm-dia rotor ring is ~$500, and the AP Racing 372 mm-dia rotor ring is $395.

PFC - pads less expensive, rotor rings more expensive

Essex/AP - pads more expensive, rotor rings less expensive

In the long run, I doubt the consumable costs will be significantly different.

You're comparing the price of one pad compound from PFC. Prices by brand are all over the map, and there are many pads that fit the AP calipers in the $300-$400 range. Our calipers offer an incredible selection of pads from all major manufacturers, ranging from their mildest compounds for tooling around, all the way up to running a 24 hour races. It's totally unfair to imply pad cost is greater for the AP's based on one compound from one manufacturer.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

You should also consider the PFC Z54/Z45 brake kit - comparable to the Essex/AP brake kit. I have the PFC brake kit on my e92 M3 and the Essex/AP 9668/9449 brake kit on my f82 M4.
.

You must be the only person that has both these BBKs at the same time!

I'm still annoyed the PFC BBK doesn't have brackets for the F8X... do it already! We're growing old!

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by jritt@essex

You're comparing the price of one pad compound from PFC. Prices by brand are all over the map, and there are many pads that fit the AP calipers in the $300-$400 range. Our calipers offer an incredible selection of pads from all major manufacturers, ranging from their mildest compounds for tooling around, all the way up to running a 24 hour races. It's totally unfair to imply pad cost is greater for the AP's based on one compound from one manufacturer.

I don’t disagree the costs will be different for different people but my comparison was based on what my consumable costs are and I clearly stated I only use PFC track pads. However, I did conclude the consumable costs will be similar

[jritt@essex]

Originally Posted by MPower7

The Z54 and the ESSEX are definitely my top two choices right now. I believe the consumables are cheaper for the ESSEX but it's more expensive up front.

Also keep in mind a few other things:

1. How available are spares? Some of our competitors have had a horrible time supplying their customers with spare disc rings when they need them. Also, if there aren't a lot of pad choices for a given caliper, you may have trouble getting the type of friction you want when you need them. We stock hundreds of pairs of discs on the shelf at all time, and it is super easy to find our pad shapes. Heck, there's probably someone at the track with a spare set of our pads on hand if you needed them in a pinch!

2. With your kit purchase you're also buying customer support. You'd be hard pressed to find a supplier that goes to the lengths we do to keep our customers happy.

We literally just posted another e92 M3 owner review on our blog...please check it out!:
https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...umables-batman


Your experience level & driving history
I started tracking my first track car, my 2011 E92 M3, back in 2015. I now have 98 track days of experience across three different cars - a 2011 M3, 2006 M3, and a 2017 M4.

How has the brake kit changed your driving experience?
When I first started taking my car to the track, I noticed how quickly I was cracking the stock discs. My interest was cutting down cost while retaining or bettering braking performance. I did a lot of research on various forums, and settled on the Essex AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition 9660 kit, which just started being offered on the E92. I was one of the first to obtain the kit. My primary interest was function over form, which was opposite of a lot of what you read about. It just happens that the car looks great with them too.
Being a novice at the time, it was hard to gauge braking improvements, but what I did notice was how much longer my brake pads and rotors lasted. I didn't have to change my rotors for 25 track days. With a brake kit like this, it was easy to forget that I even had them - they were always there when I went for them. This gave me tremendous confidence to brake even later, and I learned how to trail brake to improve lap times. I have over 60 track days on my E92, and I have only had to change the front rotors twice, and never because they cracked. I probably could have squeezed a few more track days out of them. I brought rotors with me to the track waiting for them to crack, but they never did. This is on a heavy (3600 lbs) car that has no brake ducting.

Problems that the brake kit solved (e.g.- pad fade,disc cracking, soft pedal, etc.)
The longevity of the rotors, a firm confident pedal that remains consistent lap after lap, what's not to like? You never have to think about your brakes when you have this kit. You can attack lap after lap after lap and maintain the same braking points. It really helps you get better with lap times, because you can start experimenting with braking deeper and deeper, and carrying more speed through turns.

Favorite product feature
Ease of assembly and ease of brake pad change outs. Many other calipers have you tap a pin through it, which leads to the punch tool you're using slipping off and chipping the paint. On this kit, all you have to do is loosen a bolt. Pad changes happen in five minutes. My friends were amazed that I would change out my street pads to track pads when I arrived in the morning. Being in the advanced group, my session is most often the first group out, so having quick painless changes is key. When I'm done for the day, changing back to street pads is just as quick and I can drive home without drawing attention.

Comparison to other products you’ve tried in the past
Once I picked up my other cars and started driving them on the track, I immediately noticed a huge difference between the AP Racing kit and the others. My stock iron brakes in the M4 were just no match for repeated abuse at braking heavy tracks like Laguna Seca. I had never personally experienced brake fade until I drove this car - and it was an eye opening experience. I had to start thinking about managing my brakes in a way I never had to with my AP Racing BBK. Additionally, after just a couple track days at my advanced skill level, the brake calipers had discolored from a pretty blue to a charcoal black. Having to change the brake pads every track day got tiresome as well - and the rubber piston seals came apart in my hands the first time I changed the pads.
It was even worse once I started driving the 2006 E46 M3. This car came with a Brembo 4 piston brake kit and brake ducting, but I'm not sure it was ever designed for the car. I started triggering anti-icing ABS if I went for the brakes too swiftly, and it shook my confidence in the car. When you have to think about managing your pedal pressure, it hurts how consistent your laps are - I was having to brake at different braking points as the session grew longer. Additionally, I was cracking the expensive type 3 rotors every 7 track days. These rotors were twice the cost of replacement AP racing J-hook rings. They were pretty, but didn't last nearly as long.

Overall ownership experience...how easy it to live with?
Jeff Ritter at Essex worked with me to find a brake pad combo that I could drive on the street with. Using Ferodo DS2500 on the street and DSUNO/DS1.11 on the track, I was able to drive around without sounding like a delivery truck, while having amazing braking performance on the track.

Customer service by Essex before and after initial sale
Essex communication was on point. I was never in the dark about any of my product shipments, and replacement brake pads and rotors arrived without fuss. Jeff answered all my newbie questions with unmatched patience. I have long email chains filled with valuable information which I still reference to this day.

Documentation and ease of install
The documentation provided was 100% accurate and easy for even a mechanical dunce like me to understand. I was able to learn how to replace my rotors and brake pads myself, which cut down on the cost of tracking the car when you don't have to rely on a shop to do it for you.

Would you buy it again, and would you recommend it to a friend?
Absolutely 100% - I have recommended it to all of my track friends. I can't wait to replace the brake kits on my others cars! Once you start using this kit, you will be permanently spoiled.

Anything about the product that you think could be improved?
Offer on more platforms. Reduce even more weight with future revisions of the kit.

Race or event wins on our brake kit
2nd place overall 2016 Bimmer Challenge, a California time trial series. B3 class 1 1st place finish, 2 2nd place finishes, 1 3rd place finish (11 events)
2nd place overall 2017 Bimmer Challenge, B2 class, 1 1st place finish, 2 2nd place finishes, 2 3rd place finishes (11 events)
Currently participating in the 2019 Bimmer Challenge in B3 class, 1 event thus far, 2nd place finish.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

You must be the only person that has both these BBKs at the same time!

I'm still annoyed the PFC BBK doesn't have brackets for the F8X... do it already! We're growing old!

I know! When I asked PFC ~1.5 years ago when they’d have a kit available their answer was in a year or so...they already have the Z54 front kit for the M235iR! I told them it would be a popular kit if the pricing was similar to the e9x M3 Z54/Z45 kits. However, I’m glad I didn’t wait.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by jritt@essex

Also keep in mind a few other things:

1. How available are spares? Some of our competitors have had a horrible time supplying their customers with spare disc rings when they need them. Also, if there aren't a lot of pad choices for a given caliper, you may have trouble getting the type of friction you want when you need them. We stock hundreds of pairs of discs on the shelf at all time, and it is super easy to find our pad shapes. Heck, there's probably someone at the track with a spare set of our pads on hand if you needed them in a pinch!

2. With your kit purchase you're also buying customer support. You'd be hard pressed to find a supplier that goes to the lengths we do to keep our customers happy.

We literally just posted another e92 M3 owner review on our blog...please check it out!:
https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...umables-batman


Your experience level & driving history
I started tracking my first track car, my 2011 E92 M3, back in 2015. I now have 98 track days of experience across three different cars - a 2011 M3, 2006 M3, and a 2017 M4.

How has the brake kit changed your driving experience?
When I first started taking my car to the track, I noticed how quickly I was cracking the stock discs. My interest was cutting down cost while retaining or bettering braking performance. I did a lot of research on various forums, and settled on the Essex AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition 9660 kit, which just started being offered on the E92. I was one of the first to obtain the kit. My primary interest was function over form, which was opposite of a lot of what you read about. It just happens that the car looks great with them too.
Being a novice at the time, it was hard to gauge braking improvements, but what I did notice was how much longer my brake pads and rotors lasted. I didn't have to change my rotors for 25 track days. With a brake kit like this, it was easy to forget that I even had them - they were always there when I went for them. This gave me tremendous confidence to brake even later, and I learned how to trail brake to improve lap times. I have over 60 track days on my E92, and I have only had to change the front rotors twice, and never because they cracked. I probably could have squeezed a few more track days out of them. I brought rotors with me to the track waiting for them to crack, but they never did. This is on a heavy (3600 lbs) car that has no brake ducting.

Problems that the brake kit solved (e.g.- pad fade,disc cracking, soft pedal, etc.)
The longevity of the rotors, a firm confident pedal that remains consistent lap after lap, what's not to like? You never have to think about your brakes when you have this kit. You can attack lap after lap after lap and maintain the same braking points. It really helps you get better with lap times, because you can start experimenting with braking deeper and deeper, and carrying more speed through turns.

Favorite product feature
Ease of assembly and ease of brake pad change outs. Many other calipers have you tap a pin through it, which leads to the punch tool you're using slipping off and chipping the paint. On this kit, all you have to do is loosen a bolt. Pad changes happen in five minutes. My friends were amazed that I would change out my street pads to track pads when I arrived in the morning. Being in the advanced group, my session is most often the first group out, so having quick painless changes is key. When I'm done for the day, changing back to street pads is just as quick and I can drive home without drawing attention.

Comparison to other products you’ve tried in the past
Once I picked up my other cars and started driving them on the track, I immediately noticed a huge difference between the AP Racing kit and the others. My stock iron brakes in the M4 were just no match for repeated abuse at braking heavy tracks like Laguna Seca. I had never personally experienced brake fade until I drove this car - and it was an eye opening experience. I had to start thinking about managing my brakes in a way I never had to with my AP Racing BBK. Additionally, after just a couple track days at my advanced skill level, the brake calipers had discolored from a pretty blue to a charcoal black. Having to change the brake pads every track day got tiresome as well - and the rubber piston seals came apart in my hands the first time I changed the pads.
It was even worse once I started driving the 2006 E46 M3. This car came with a Brembo 4 piston brake kit and brake ducting, but I'm not sure it was ever designed for the car. I started triggering anti-icing ABS if I went for the brakes too swiftly, and it shook my confidence in the car. When you have to think about managing your pedal pressure, it hurts how consistent your laps are - I was having to brake at different braking points as the session grew longer. Additionally, I was cracking the expensive type 3 rotors every 7 track days. These rotors were twice the cost of replacement AP racing J-hook rings. They were pretty, but didn't last nearly as long.

Overall ownership experience...how easy it to live with?
Jeff Ritter at Essex worked with me to find a brake pad combo that I could drive on the street with. Using Ferodo DS2500 on the street and DSUNO/DS1.11 on the track, I was able to drive around without sounding like a delivery truck, while having amazing braking performance on the track.

Customer service by Essex before and after initial sale
Essex communication was on point. I was never in the dark about any of my product shipments, and replacement brake pads and rotors arrived without fuss. Jeff answered all my newbie questions with unmatched patience. I have long email chains filled with valuable information which I still reference to this day.

Documentation and ease of install
The documentation provided was 100% accurate and easy for even a mechanical dunce like me to understand. I was able to learn how to replace my rotors and brake pads myself, which cut down on the cost of tracking the car when you don't have to rely on a shop to do it for you.

Would you buy it again, and would you recommend it to a friend?
Absolutely 100% - I have recommended it to all of my track friends. I can't wait to replace the brake kits on my others cars! Once you start using this kit, you will be permanently spoiled.

Anything about the product that you think could be improved?
Offer on more platforms. Reduce even more weight with future revisions of the kit.

Race or event wins on our brake kit
2nd place overall 2016 Bimmer Challenge, a California time trial series. B3 class 1 1st place finish, 2 2nd place finishes, 1 3rd place finish (11 events)
2nd place overall 2017 Bimmer Challenge, B2 class, 1 1st place finish, 2 2nd place finishes, 2 3rd place finishes (11 events)
2nd place finish, Philomanillo Challenge (2nd out of 2 competitors)
Currently participating in the 2019 Bimmer Challenge in B3 class, 1 event thus far, 2nd place finish.

lol redpriest

[redpriest]

I stand by every word of it!

I found that the kit is very streetable. I would swap between a set of Ferodo DS2500 and DS1.11 pads - 2500 for street use and 1.11 for track.

With DS2500 pads, the brakes were silent on the street for 99.99% of occasions. I only hard a very slight squeak a few times, and I used to daily my E92. It's nothing like the cacophony I had with PFC 08 pads on stock discs which sounded so bad it was embarrassing at stops.

The only thing would be the chatter of the brake pads in certain low speed situations. It doesn't happen often but you can hear it clicking at times.

This was addressed by a pad tension kit (it doesn't bother me that much but if you do it's available) - https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...p9660-calipers