Discussion - Is EDC obsolete?

[Thumbie]

My stock EDC dampers are going, and while I really want to maintain EDC function, most of what I read here seems to favor non-EDC options. For both performance AND comfort.

Yes, there are some great EDC options from Bilstein (and others) that have very positive reviews, but I am being left to ask: what's the point?

Correct me if I am wrong but, EDC adjusts the compression stiffness of the damper. Does it also adjust rebound? Preload? From my understanding, those three should be adjusted together to reach ideal settings, is that correct? (is that what "wheel rate" is?)

I am not here to bash EDC. Like I said, I would love to retain it. I think it's "cool" to have it be adjustable from the driver's seat. But does it makes sense to? Especially when options like Ohlins R&T seem to provide the best of both worlds. Looking to open this up for discussion...your thoughts?




Some background: My car is mostly street driven, and roads in Oakland aren't ideal. I do maybe 2 HPDE days per year, but I am not going for fastest lap, just for fun and practice. Maintaining OE-level comfort (or better?) is more of the goal here. I say that because I know even the most comfortable aftermarket option is still sporty enough for canyon roads. Also, while I am not limited by budget, I would not want something overkill.

[Nickco43]

I just purchased a set of none EDC Bilstein B4 for my 200k M3 for $400 from Rock Auto.

I am in the same boat as you, I want my car to drive nice and be comfortable. For $400 I am going to give these a shot and if they do not end up lasting I will get a set of $1800 B6 Damptronic shocks.


Update: I canceled my B4 order and ordered B6s for $700. After reading some more technical documents I think they are worth the additional $300. Plus they are Bilstein yellow for the clout.

[Redd]

TracTive Touring suspension. Best of both worlds. Works seamlessly with EDC, nearly as comfortable as Ohlins, and better body control than both.

[valve float]

evolve should be dropping their custom valved bilstein b6's any day now for the E9x...

i'd image much like these f8x offerings...
https://www.evolveautomotive.com/pro...db27b46c&_ss=c

thought i'd read the damptronic B6s effectively raised the ride height 1/2" or so...

[GiorgioE82]

Originally Posted by Nickco43

I just purchased a set of none EDC Bilstein B4 for my 200k M3 for $400 from Rock Auto.

I am in the same boat as you, I want my car to drive nice and be comfortable. For $400 I am going to give these a shot and if they do not end up lasting I will get a set of $1800 B6 Damptronic shocks.

Color me interested. I'm in the same boat as you and although I've considered either coilovers or some other ones, I really don't do any driving thats more than 8/10ths. Maaayyybe a 9/10th. My 1M of course doesn't have EDC and it rides rather well stock which is why I was considering doing a replacement with just OEM non EDC shocks or B4s.
Following for updates.

[gnx]

Not even sure that the b16 edc kit is available. Paid for it in January through a German online retailer. Once a month i would ask for an update on my order and the vendor would reply that Bilstein would give them dispatch date the following month. After 6 months i got tired of waiting and just cancelled my order. At least the vendor refunded me the following day. Any suggestions, other than bilstein part no Bilstein 49-237108?

[Thumbie]

Originally Posted by Nickco43

I just purchased a set of none EDC Bilstein B4 for my 200k M3 for $400 from Rock Auto.

I am in the same boat as you, I want my car to drive nice and be comfortable. For $400 I am going to give these a shot and if they do not end up lasting I will get a set of $1800 B6 Damptronic shocks.


Update: I canceled my B4 order and ordered B6s for $700. After reading some more technical documents I think they are worth the additional $300. Plus they are Bilstein yellow for the clout.

I had my eye on the B6 damptronic, but have heard multiple people say a good non-edc coilover like Ohlins R&T is more comfortable and better handling. A "set it and forget it" solution until you go to the track.

My understanding of Bilstein (and I could be wrong) is the B4 are OE replacements, B6 is OE+ so more sporty, and B8 (if avail.) is B6 but for lowered cars.

Originally Posted by Redd

TracTive Touring suspension. Best of both worlds. Works seamlessly with EDC, nearly as comfortable as Ohlins, and better body control than both.

I have read through your posts on this kit (thank you for those, they were very informative) and I am very interested. My only hesitation is it may be overkill for my application. If I tracked more than 1-2 times per year I'd be MUCH more interested. How much less comfortable than Ohlins R&T are they? Still better than stock? For cars that are mainly used for commuting, is it too much? Does switching between modes really make a handling difference over non-edc coilovers? I have some other questions, but I will ask them in your other thread so I don't steer this one off topic. They are really nice looking though.

Originally Posted by valve float

thought i'd read the damptronic B6s effectively raised the ride height 1/2" or so...

I saw the same. Some mentioned it just needs a break-in, similar to springs. Others mentioned they only make them for non-comp package cars, so spring perches are higher (or something along those lines). I will need to keep an eye out for those custom-valved B6s

Going back to the EDC question, do you guys think EDC in sport mode actually improves handling? Or is it a gimmick...

[MrBlueSkies]

Originally Posted by valve float

evolve should be dropping their custom valved bilstein b6's any day now for the E9x...

i'd image much like these f8x offerings...
https://www.evolveautomotive.com/pro...db27b46c&_ss=c

thought i'd read the damptronic B6s effectively raised the ride height 1/2" or so...

My understanding is the Evolve version is a little shorter in length, as well as re-valved.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by Thumbie

I have read through your posts on this kit (thank you for those, they were very informative) and I am very interested. My only hesitation is it may be overkill for my application. If I tracked more than 1-2 times per year I'd be MUCH more interested. How much less comfortable than Ohlins R&T are they? Still better than stock? For cars that are mainly used for commuting, is it too much? Does switching between modes really make a handling difference over non-edc coilovers? I have some other questions, but I will ask them in your other thread so I don't steer this one off topic. They are really nice looking though.

1. They are more a street suspension than track. You will absolutely love them on the street.

2. 10-15% less comfortable than Ohlins R/T, 30-40% more comfortable than stock EDC. A lot better body control than stock EDC.

3. Big difference switching modes on TracTive vs Ohlins R/T. The active DDA valve makes a huge difference to roll and pitch control.

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by Thumbie

...
Correct me if I am wrong but, EDC adjusts the compression stiffness of the damper. Does it also adjust rebound? Preload? From my understanding, those three should be adjusted together to reach ideal settings, is that correct? (is that what "wheel rate" is?)

To answer your questions,

I think EDC settings are mostly adjusting rebound. May be some cross talk with the compression but mostly rebound.

Preload is how much the spring perch and top hat compresses the spring while it's not under load with the car sitting on it. You can't adjust that with OEM shocks, but you can with many coilovers.

Wheel rate is like spring rate but it's effective at the wheel instead of at the spring. Since the suspension arm acts like a lever, and different cars have different attachment points, not all spring rates are comparable between cars (or even the front/rear of the same car), but wheel rate would be. See below for the math and explanation of what motion ratio is also.

[Matt@Evolve]

Originally Posted by MrBlueSkies

My understanding is the Evolve version is a little shorter in length, as well as re-valved.

Yes, we have eliminated the slight lift you would get with the regular B6 damper, which is why they are taking longer to pass through Bilstein's rigorous QC checks.

They'll be here soon though, and we honestly think they're part of the perfect setup for a road use car.

[Thumbie]

Originally Posted by Tommysalami

To answer your questions,

I think EDC settings are mostly adjusting rebound. May be some cross talk with the compression but mostly rebound.

Preload is how much the spring perch and top hat compresses the spring while it's not under load with the car sitting on it. You can't adjust that with OEM shocks, but you can with many coilovers.

Wheel rate is like spring rate but it's effective at the wheel instead of at the spring. Since the suspension arm acts like a lever, and different cars have different attachment points, not all spring rates are comparable between cars (or even the front/rear of the same car), but wheel rate would be. See below for the math and explanation of what motion ratio is also.

Excellent, thanks. Makes sense. So it leaves me wondering...since preload is not adjustable with EDC (or pretty much all factory suspension lol) do some EDC setting actually decrease your wheel rate? In other words, won't one of the three settings have the best wheel rate (let's use "Comfort" for this example)? while the others, although stiffer, will decrease wheel rate? Or if "Sport" gives the best wheel rate, the other two, while softer, would be more bouncy since the spring is set to match the "Sport" setting? If true, this leads me to further believe EDC is somewhat of a gimmick more than actual performance enhancer. A very cool feature, but I am seeing less point to maintaining it.

I know there is a lot more factors involved in wheel rate, I am just generalizing here.

[Redd]

EDC is actually an active system that constantly changes damping based on driving conditions like steering angle (amongst others). Helmsman has made some videos showing how EDC varies damper amps based steering motion (the vids are in my TracTive thread).

The problem is that the factory EDC dampers are too slow to react to those changes. The TracTive damper DDA valve on the other hand works very nicely with EDC and actually changes roll and pitch control depending the EDC setting and what the car is doing.

[Thumbie]

Originally Posted by Redd

EDC is actually an active system that constantly changes damping based on driving conditions like steering angle (amongst others). Helmsman has made some videos showing how EDC varies damper amps based steering motion (the vids are in my TracTive thread).

The problem is that the factory EDC dampers are too slow to react to those changes. The TracTive damper DDA valve on the other hand works very nicely with EDC and actually changes roll and pitch control depending the EDC setting and what the car is doing.

Yes, that is correct. I guess what I mean is, the damping changes but the spring rate does not. So dampers and springs are not quite paired perfectly. I'm not sure if it is enough to make a difference in handling in a street car though.

Man... I gotta say, the more you talk about the Tractive the more I am considering buying

[Johnr3524]

Originally Posted by Matt@Evolve

Yes, we have eliminated the slight lift you would get with the regular B6 damper, which is why they are taking longer to pass through Bilstein's rigorous QC checks.

They'll be here soon though, and we honestly think they're part of the perfect setup for a road use car.

Please keep us posted! (including me...)