ZCP vs 6MT

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Can you even heel-toe bro?

Don't taze me bro.

[carenthuziast]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Can you even heel-toe bro?

Not without blowing out his flops. That's why he went automatic for both.

[Honda]

this thread is entertaining for sure

[wyatth]

Different strokes for different folks. Every E9x M car is special and fun, regardless of spec. But nothing broadcasts a big dick like an E92 owner clowning on E93s or 6MT owners clowning on DCT.

[Taythefool]

Its defiantly nice to have a little of both. especially when taking the highway after a long day and ripping on the throttle a bit.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by carenthuziast

It really makes no sense to me why anyone with the dct would flap paddles during a daily drive to work in heavy traffic or running an errand down the street to Walmart when the power curve doesn’t matter and fuel efficiency matters more.

How does the power curve not matter in daily driving? Who says I drive daily in heavy traffic? Why would you assume I care about fuel efficiency in an M3?

Sure, if you’re on a track or on a canyon run I can see why you would want to have fun with the dct, but unless you spend more of your driving time on the track versus on the road driving to work, it’s really needless because there’s no challenge in it. There’s no skill you’re trying to perfect with the dct compared to the 6mt.

I don't know what any of that means. I usually shift my DCT manually because I enjoy it and it offers me more control over what's happening with the car. If I believed any of the stuff you're saying is true, it would make more sense to sell my sports cars and just drive my Nissan Altima everywhere.

Originally Posted by carenthuziast

Shifting gears with dct does seem pointless when dct owners say the auto mode is so good. Even if it wasn’t so good, the car can move without flapping paddles.

The car could also move with 180hp, but none of us seem to be trading the E9xs for 320is.

You seem like one of those "my way is the only way that makes any sense" kinda guys.

Originally Posted by Transfer

You talk like flapping paddles is a chore or undesireable or something. And who says the auto mode is good? It sucks and is only good for warming up the car, lazy driving with the wife or grandma, and sitting in traffic. If you like to drive between 1500-4000 RPMs with smooth shifts then I guess the auto mode is your bag but if you want to use the powerband, manual shift all other times.

Yep, I enjoy deciding for myself when the car should shift gears, just like the 6MT owners. I don't quite understand why one choice is being made out to be more 'noble' than the other.

[vincE92M3]

Why are we still debating 6MT vs. DCT?

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

If we're being honest, isn't that like 90% of driving for most of us? It is for me.

No way man. 2k at the bottom if I'm really babying it but mostly 3-4K minimum and 5-8k with any acceleration. I run the tach all day. The S65 needs the revs if you're gonna enjoy it. Damn the fuel mileage.

[scrammer]

Originally Posted by SoCalRPM

Guys and gals, let's not go crazy on this thread. We're all friends and family here. Some like 6MT. Some like DCT. Some prefer the variation that they don't currently have and vice versa. But we all love M cars. Let's move on.

.... and some of us buy a used M3 with DCT because after 16 months of looking I found the perfect car "except" it was not a stick ... 31000 kms, no claims, ZCP, ///M perf exhaust, EAS Big Brake kit, and literally not a scratch. Once I started checking the boxes it didn't matter which tranny this car had, I was buying it!

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by Transfer

No way man. 2k at the bottom if I'm really babying it but mostly 3-4K minimum and 5-8k with any acceleration. I run the tach all day. The S65 needs the revs if you're gonna enjoy it. Damn the fuel mileage.

Sounds like you are an aggressive driver. I cruise at 2-2.5k and typically upshift at 3-3.5k, just like I would in any other car. I go up to 4-5k if I need to accelerate quicker than usual or if I want to hear a bit of exhaust growl for giggles. I hit redline occasionally when I want to feel the oomph of the supercharger and it's safe to hit triple digit speeds without causing unwanted attention (very rare). I greatly enjoy my S65 under all circumstances, even when driving it like a Camry and not wringing it's neck. I attribute part of that to the manual transmission. Maybe I'm not a typical M3 driver.

I can see how the DCT would neuter some of the "regular driving" fun while potentially enhancing fun at or near the limit. This isn't just an M3 thing, I similarly would have fun cruising around in a base model vanilla Mazda3 if it had a manual. Driving manual is fun for me, simple as that. I would probably prefer a DCT if I spent a lot of time at the track though.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Transfer

No way man. 2k at the bottom if I'm really babying it but mostly 3-4K minimum and 5-8k with any acceleration. I run the tach all day. The S65 needs the revs if you're gonna enjoy it. Damn the fuel mileage.

Agreed - I'm almost never below 3k and spend a LOT of time above 4k. Every single time I drive it.

Driving the car below 4k is pointless. It's slow and uncomfortable - rather be in an Accord for that type of driving. I feel bad for the guys who don't rev the motor - not sure why they even own the car at all.

[wyatth]

^ What those 2 guys said. And because it needs to rev so much, I’m tempted to keep the exhaust completely stock. Guys with X or Y exhaust setup always like “it’s only loud when you want it to be at higher RPMs.” That’s all the time!

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Agreed - I'm almost never below 3k and spend a LOT of time above 4k. Every single time I drive it.

Driving the car below 4k is pointless. It's slow and uncomfortable - rather be in an Accord for that type of driving. I feel bad for the guys who don't rev the motor - not sure why they even own the car at all.

This is how I used to drive my 02 WRX back in the day when I was 18.

An Accord is excellent at one thing while the M3 is excellent at many things, it's the jack of all trades. It drives as nice or nicer than an Accord when you're simply commuting and trying to stay under the radar, while swinging above it's league when you are looking for a bit more. If you can only have one car to do it all, the M3 is the answer. My car sees everything from track time to rush hour traffic to winter snow/ice/salt. Don't feel bad for me, rest assured I'm getting my money's worth out of this thing and enjoying every mile of it!

Originally Posted by wyatth

^ What those 2 guys said. And because it needs to rev so much, I’m tempted to keep the exhaust completely stock. Guys with X or Y exhaust setup always like “it’s only loud when you want it to be at higher RPMs.” That’s all the time!

You absolutely should keep your exhaust stock if this is how you drive unless you enjoy unwanted attention and tickets.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

This is how I used to drive my 02 WRX back in the day when I was 18.

An Accord is excellent at one thing while the M3 is excellent at many things, it's the jack of all trades. It drives as nice or nicer than an Accord when you're simply commuting and trying to stay under the radar, while swinging above it's league when you are looking for a bit more. If you can only have one car to do it all, the M3 is the answer. My car sees everything from track time to rush hour traffic to winter snow/ice/salt. Don't feel bad for me, rest assured I'm getting my money's worth out of this thing and enjoying every mile of it!

Nowhere near as nice as an Accord for daily chores. In addition, and even worse, the E9XM is not "fun" when driven like an Accord.

And so if you're driving it like an Accord 90% of the time, what's the point of the car at all, is my main point. In other words, if you're not enjoying the car in a spirited manner, OFTEN, then I personally don't see why someone would drive it everyday.

Originally Posted by wyatth

^ What those 2 guys said. And because it needs to rev so much, I’m tempted to keep the exhaust completely stock. Guys with X or Y exhaust setup always like “it’s only loud when you want it to be at higher RPMs.” That’s all the time!

The car is PLENTY loud with the stock exhaust, in my opinion. Anything other than a stock muffler makes the car too loud, for me.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Sounds like you are an aggressive driver.

Why yes I am. That's why I own a high revving V8 M3 and not a manual Mazda.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Nowhere near as nice as an Accord for daily chores.

If I had an Accord parked alongside my M3, 9 times out of 10 I would still hop in the M3. The only time I'd prefer the Accord is if I was parking on the street or in a not-great neighborhood.

Originally Posted by EricSMG

The car is PLENTY loud with the stock exhaust, in my opinion. Anything other than a stock muffler makes the car too loud, for me.

Disagree, but I can respect that opinion. I love my ACM mod+test pipes.

Originally Posted by Transfer

Why yes I am. That's why I own a high revving V8 M3 and not a manual Mazda.

Cool! If you can get away with it while staying out of trouble, more power to you.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Disagree, but I can respect that opinion. I love my ACM mod+test pipes.

I would've, too, in my 20's, but not now in my 40s.

I cringe at loud cars. They're annoying to other people and really draw too much attention. Plus, the E9X really isn't' that fast but SOUNDS really fast with exhaust.

I don't want a car that sounds like something it isn't. Sleeper status for me. That's how I can drive fast and not get tickets, and, not piss other people off

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

I would've, too, in my 20's, but not now in my 40s.

I cringe at loud cars. They're annoying to other people and really draw too much attention. Plus, the E9X really isn't' that fast but SOUNDS really fast with exhaust.

I don't want a car that sounds like something it isn't. Sleeper status for me. That's how I can drive fast and not get tickets, and, not piss other people off

Makes sense. But I also think people get annoyed with aggressive drivers in general just as they do with loud exhausts. Nobody likes the guy ripping through traffic at 6k RPM regardless of exhaust setup or what he's driving. That's why I typically drive like a normal person, which means exhaust volume isn't a problem. Meanwhile, when I'm getting on it I like to hear my exhaust because my E92 is in fact every bit as fast as it sounds thanks to the ESS 625. My car sounds like exactly what it is: an animal. Different strokes for different folks!

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Makes sense. But I also think people get annoyed with aggressive drivers in general just as they do with loud exhausts. Nobody likes the guy ripping through traffic at 6k RPM regardless of exhaust setup. That's why I typically drive like a normal person, which means exhaust volume isn't a problem. Meanwhile, when I'm getting on it I like to hear my exhaust because my E92 is in fact every bit as fast as it sounds thanks to the ESS 625. My car sounds like exactly what it is: an animal. Different strokes for different folks!

Yep, nothing wrong with a "good" sounding car, I'm just way over "loud" cars. And a lot of E9X guys (and Mustang guys and Diesel pickup guys (the worst bunch)) go way overboard here.

Also - there's a huge difference between driving fast and driving aggressively. Half of my commute is 50mph 4 lane highway without heavy traffic - plenty of opportunity to let'er rip a bit without being a douche. I redline 2nd gear daily (65mph) and 3rd only on occasion since it's too fast in the 6MT (~110mph) - that's getting dangerous and I only go there when the conditions permit (as in, zero other cars near me and lots of forward visibility and no side streets).

Which brings us back to why the DCT would be better - it tops out in third around 95mph..... MUCH more accessible in normal life

[Iyzmi]

Just saw this edit:

Originally Posted by EricSMG

And so if you're driving it like an Accord 90% of the time, what's the point of the car at all, is my main point. In other words, if you're not enjoying the car in a spirited manner, OFTEN, then I personally don't see why someone would drive it everyday.

All good things in moderation. I like drinking sometimes but I'm not going out and getting hammered 90% of the time. To me, the M3 is enjoyable under all circumstances. It's very good at being a comfortable luxury car and also very good at being an absolute animal. The ultimate compromise if you can only have one car to do it all.

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Yep, nothing wrong with a "good" sounding car, I'm just way over "loud" cars. And a lot of E9X guys (and Mustang guys and Diesel pickup guys (the worst bunch)) go way overboard here.

Also - there's a huge difference between driving fast and driving aggressively. Half of my commute is 50mph 4 lane highway without heavy traffic - plenty of opportunity to let'er rip a bit without being a douche.

I agree about loud exhausts. The Mustang and diesel guys you speak of tend to make their cars/trucks loud at all times and that's just obnoxious and annoying. I would hate that. One of my favorite aspects about my car and it's current exhaust setup is that it's almost as quiet as stock when you want it to be...until you get on it and it sounds like an exotic race car.

I also agree about the difference between driving fast vs aggressive. Nothing wrong with the scenario you described, I do the same thing. I was replying to folks saying they hardly ever go below 3 or 4k RPM. I can't imagine driving around/commuting at 4k+ everywhere. I feel like I would be causing a scene even with stock exhaust. The BMW douche stereotype is what comes to mind. I think I turn enough heads as it is simply by having a bright color sports car.

[Iyzmi]

I can't keep up with your edits, damnit!

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Which brings us back to why the DCT would be better - it tops out in third around 95mph..... MUCH more accessible in normal life

I see it as the exact opposite. You need to wring your car out to have fun otherwise you're just driving a regular automatic BMW Accord, while I can have fun simply by rowing my own gears in addition to wringing the car out. My fun is more accessible under most circumstances, with track time being the main exception where I may find DCT more enjoyable (and even then it's debatable). I can understand where you are coming from and I assume you can understand where I am coming from too.

[94jedi]

Have we decided which is better yet? No? Ok, please let me know when we do.