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03-01-2008, 07:07 PM | #67 |
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I've read quite a few articles that say the 997 Turbo does not handle very well at the track. It is quite a bit slower than a GT3, which has a lot less HP and torque (although comes with sticky R compounds). The 911 Turbo is for guys who like to say "I have a 911 Turbo" and who like to punch it on the on ramp until they hit 80 MPH. GT3s are for true drivers.
THe GTR is pretty hard-core and, although its AWD and turbo power may make you want to compare it against the 911 Turbo, I think in spirit it is a lot closer to the GT3. The GT3 is supposed to ride decent with the adjustible suspension (PASM??) and probably as well as the GTR. Meanwhile it is more involving, better sounding, better looking (my opinion) and almost as fast in a straight line and probably equally fast around MOST road courses (that have lots of turns - no N'Ring) as the GTR. When you factor in the GTR's markup, the two may cost similar $$s, too.
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03-01-2008, 07:19 PM | #69 |
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Everyone I spoke to was wanting between 10 - 20k over sticker
I think when dealers have physical stock this summer the premiums will be less, especially since its been reported in Winding Road that actual USA production will be around 500 per month vs. the 1500 per year that Nissan has stated It makes sense that Nissan wants to create this sense of limited supply |
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03-01-2008, 07:20 PM | #70 |
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Yea, the markup is ridiculous, I think they are sold out for this year too...
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03-01-2008, 08:43 PM | #71 |
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Our dealer was selling at sticker, i preordered one, god knows when i get it though 2nd one the dealer gets..
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03-02-2008, 12:32 AM | #72 | |
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03-02-2008, 12:45 AM | #73 | |
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The Z06 is definitely the bang for the buck champ. I drove one at Infinion. It had well-used slicks, but other than that was stock. I ran a 1:49 (5 seconds faster than the owner of the Z06 was able to manage) on my first session ever, and there was a LOT left on the table. For comparison I run a 1:50 in my 3000 lb E36 M3 with full track suspension, 240 WHP and R-compounds. I'm pretty sure on new tires and with a bit more seat time I could turn a 1:45 or better.
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03-02-2008, 01:39 AM | #74 |
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OK guys, lets not forget this is m3post.com...that means were mainly talking about M3s. A little bit of comparison of other cars is fine but this is getting a bit over board.
On the 911TT vs. GT-R: There is ample evidence that the GT-R is under-rated. If so and if Nissan delivers an SAE spec car in the US then it simply won't perform like the ones with more power. I think this is the essence of what Art has been saying. We all know the GT-R has an amazing drivetrain (AWD, traction control system, diffs, dual clutch trans, etc.) and a very advanced chassis as well. Nonetheless all cars are subject to the laws of physics and the GT-R is quite a heavy car. Only time will tell if the current huge sums over sticker that US dealers want for the car will be worth it or not. Please take the rest of the GT-R vs. 911TT debate to PM. |
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03-02-2008, 01:58 AM | #75 |
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What about the GT2 guys? While the Nissan boys are making something to beat the Turbo, Porsche already came up with their newer, faster machine to beat the competition. What do you all think about the GT2 vs. GTR? Or maybe they are not in the same league since the GT2 is RWD?
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03-02-2008, 02:28 AM | #76 | |
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Best regards, south
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03-02-2008, 07:52 AM | #77 |
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Which is why I wasn't concerned about beating him in an M3.
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03-02-2008, 10:31 AM | #78 |
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Its all very very interesting
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03-02-2008, 03:07 PM | #80 | |
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03-02-2008, 03:24 PM | #81 | |
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03-02-2008, 06:17 PM | #82 |
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To say ALL of the GT-R tests are 'rigged' is ridiculous.
The results are in. It clearly wins in the performance categories. Yes, it's not a "pretty German/Euro car" and it was never meant to be. That's ok. |
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03-02-2008, 11:40 PM | #83 |
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You have followed the posts talking about actual weights both from magazines and customers cars right? Most were coming in quite a bit under the EU spec weight and thus this could be the case in the US as well. Perhaps the figure is for a totally loaded car with every option. I can't wait to get mine on a scale. Lastly that weight comment was more aimed at a comparison with the Porsche 911TT not the M3.
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03-03-2008, 08:09 AM | #85 | |
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Last edited by gbb357; 03-03-2008 at 09:26 AM.. |
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03-03-2008, 09:31 AM | #86 |
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Autocar weighed an M3 at it's full road test, something they always do now and it weighed in at 1635kgs (3597Lbs). I don't know it the car was loaded with options, I believe there was some (19"alloys, EDC, arm-rest, front park sensors) but not the full list of options or even near it.
I haven't heard whether they test the car with driver and fuel or not, maybe Steved might know which, being a friend of Chris at Autocar. |
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03-03-2008, 10:22 AM | #87 | |
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Last edited by gbb357; 03-03-2008 at 02:45 PM.. |
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03-03-2008, 10:39 AM | #88 | |
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Match the turbo against the GT-R in a roll on drag race, I am confident the results would be much different. The GT-R, as Swamp and others here have pointed out, has definitive benefits which allow it to beat out all these performance cars. The most important one to me is, will this car come in the states underrated by 40 hp? How much weight will it gain coming here. These two elements alone will clearly define if it will be able to beat out Porsche's almighty turbo. Also, if not for launch control and DSG, it would not be edging out the 911, it would be the other way around. Lastly, how many time are people going to insist that the GT-R is going for $20-$40k over. Mine is coming at MSRP and many others have sold for the same. Many of these $20k over dealer/stealers have called back customers lowering their mark ups by 50-70%. The norm seems to be anywhere between MSRP, to $5k or $10k over. If Nissan does bump up production as much as they have suggested, the GT-R's overage will greatly diminish as will the residuals; like any other car. I do not want to know what will happen to the prices if the US cars come in with a real 473 hp and not the 530 hp they are generously giving the car now. The more feedback I get the more skeptical I become. lasty, what is this fascination with a tenth or two on a lenghtly track? In reality, who the fock cares? It is a street car that few will be taken to "driving schools", not GT races. I am getting the GT-R because it IS cheaper than the 911tt thus allowing me to own another $70k car and not have all my eggs in one basket. With a cheaper price comes a cheaper car. I am not afraid to say it. The GT-R although fast is no Porsche. If I were to win the lottery the GT-R would not be a consideration. Sorry, to all those I likely offended, but like DeNiro said in Deer Hunter: "It is what it is, it is not something else, it is what it is". |
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