EKP module to pump wiring - losing fuel pressure at high rpm

[Bakerboy]

Hello

Upon having final mapping done, My car is losing fuel pressure in higher rpm (above 5k rpm) and wanted to check voltage isn’t dropping from ekp module.

Does anyone know which wire is power and which neutral please from the 4 wires leading to fuel pump? Image attached below of colour codes.

I am supercharged running Harrop and stage 2 pulley. Tune is on a syvecs stand-alone ecu.

I know of the fuel-it upgrade but didn’t think this would be needed as I’m running normal 99ron (93 in USA) and only thought would be needed if running e85 at this power level (we can’t get e85 in uk at the pump)

Power level is 650hp at the flywheel atm and injectors are 630cc Bosch 0280158123

Can anyone help?

Also if there is anything else to check please let me know?

Thanks in advance

[Bakerboy]

Update after test light probing

Appears:

black and brown are both live,

Red and yellow both neutral

I know there 3 stage pumps but not sure how now to approach to test now

[DrFerry]

Wish I could help, but unfortunately electronics are not my forte. Found these though and sub'd for info.
.

.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1939156

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Wish I could help, but unfortunately electronics are not my forte. Found these though and sub'd for info.
.
https://youtu.be/yyzrHMstvvs
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1939156

Cheers mate

Will take a look tomorow

Yeah I’m completely same with electrics, give me a good old spanner any day but a multi meter whats that

[Redd]

My view of electronics is that either they work or they don't. Seldom you're gonna find rpm related errors with electronics. If I'm not wrong, voltage to the fuel pump is constant and should not vary much with rpm. Fuel pressure is not regulated thru voltage (I think, I'm not sure).

For your problem I would check the mechanical side of things. Check the fuel pressure regulators. Or maybe the fuel pump is just aging and can't sustain higher fuel pressures.

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by Redd

My view of electronics is that either they work or they don't. Seldom you're gonna find rpm related errors with electronics. If I'm not wrong, voltage to the fuel pump is constant and should not vary much with rpm. Fuel pressure is not regulated thru voltage (I think, I'm not sure).

For your problem I would check the mechanical side of things. Check the fuel pressure regulators. Or maybe the fuel pump is just aging and can't sustain higher fuel pressures.

Here is what TIS says about the EKPS for fuel quantity control:

Electronic control of the electric fuel pump
Fuel system
In the "Electronic control of the electric fuel pump" system, the electric fuel pump is activated on demand. The DME control unit or DDE control unit calculates the fuel quantity required by the engine at each point in time. The required total quantity (fuel) is sent to the electronic fuel pump control module (EKPS) as a message via the CAN bus.

The electronic fuel pump control module (EKPS) adjusts the power of the electric fuel pump, thereby ensuring that the electric fuel pump delivers the exact fuel quantity required. In conventional systems, the electric fuel pump is operated constantly at the maximum speed with the maximum available vehicle voltage. Within each operating condition, the maximum fuel quantity that could be required is available.

The "Electronic control of the electric fuel pump" system optimises the fuel supply and lowers fuel consumption. The "Electronic control of the electric fuel pump" system is available for petrol and diesel engines.


Note!

As of 07/2013 a new electric fuel pump may be delivered in installation mode. There is a service function in the diagnosis for removing the installation mode.

System function
The "Electronic control of the electric fuel pump" system includes the following functions:

Supply of fuel in line with requirements
Diagnosis of low pressure fuel system
Emergency operation (complete activation of the electric fuel pump) in the event of problems in communication with the CAN bus
Cooling and lubrication of the electric fuel pump and high pressure pump (diesel engine)

So look at what I bolded. I'm curious if the OP is experiencing this problem because it seems to only happen at 5krpms or above. Maybe it's worth checking out? I'm not sure how it would've got stuck in this mode...but anyway. Just a thought.

It might also be worth checking out the fuel pressure sensor via data of a scan tool. If this is giving faulty data, it could explain your symptoms too. This has been known to go out. The replacement I think has an adapter on the fuel rail to an "updated version" of the fuel pressure sensor.

Here is some clearer wiring that might help. Note the BROWN wire at M2 is a KL31, aka GROUND. Then the RED and YELLOW are supply it looks.

[Delfan]

I'm having the same issue.

I'm running a gpower sk2 cs kit 630hp in the UK

Car runs out of fuelling 5k rpm in higher gears.

I've bought the fuel it pump but struggled to get it working correctly tbh and awaiting further info.

I was maybe looking at replacing the stock pump

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by Delfan

I'm having the same issue.

I'm running a gpower sk2 cs kit 630hp in the UK

Car runs out of fuelling 5k rpm in higher gears.

I've bought the fuel it pump but struggled to get it working correctly tbh and awaiting further info.

I was maybe looking at replacing the stock pump

I’ve just ordered the fuel it unit

Hopefully this sorts it

[Delfan]

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

I’ve just ordered the fuel it unit

Hopefully this sorts it

Nice where are you based in the UK?

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by Delfan

Nice where are you based in the UK?

Somerset, yourself?

[deansbimmer]

These are what are commonly known as brushless motors. You can't test their voltage or amp draw at the pump in the same way you would check a typical DC motor. These EKP controllers are also highly self diagnostic. If there were reduced output, excessive current draw, or even overheat of the module it would set a fault.

I see you're still running the original fuel pump. At your engine output level you're simply overworking the OE system- even if it were new. Try again with a new pump assembly. If it's still not able to catch up then you'll simply need to modify the system with a higher flow pump. Nobody said high HP goals are easy.

[Delfan]

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Somerset, yourself?

Near Shrewsbury Shropshire

[Delfan]

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

I’ve just ordered the fuel it unit

Hopefully this sorts it

Did you get the pump fitted?

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by Delfan

Did you get the pump fitted?

Only just seen this

No not yet, I took car out and emptied fuel tank the other day in preparation but haven’t got round to it yet

You got yours working?

I will be controlling the switching on and off through my syvecs ecu and not running a Hobbs type switch

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by Delfan

Near Shrewsbury Shropshire

Nice, One of my good mates lives there and I lived in Bridgnorth for around 5 years some time back.

[Delfan]

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Only just seen this

No not yet, I took car out and emptied fuel tank the other day in preparation but haven’t got round to it yet

You got yours working?

I will be controlling the switching on and off through my syvecs ecu and not running a Hobbs type switch

In theory it's all wired up but yet to get it up to the speeds to test it.

Let us know now how u get on.

Yes I know Bridgnorth well I used to play tennis there alot.

Hows the syvecs set up treating you?

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by Delfan

In theory it's all wired up but yet to get it up to the speeds to test it.

Let us know now how u get on.

Yes I know Bridgnorth well I used to play tennis there alot.

Hows the syvecs set up treating you?

Still not fully setup but making good power across the Rev range paired with the Harrop.

I’ve been slightly lazy of recent and haven’t even got round to fitting the fuel it pump yet, think it’s time of year. Be back to it soon

[Delfan]

Originally Posted by Bakerboy

Still not fully setup but making good power across the Rev range paired with the Harrop.

I’ve been slightly lazy of recent and haven’t even got round to fitting the fuel it pump yet, think it’s time of year. Be back to it soon

It's hard to get out at this time of year. Would be good to see a graph of that Harrop

Are u on m3cutters?

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by Delfan

It's hard to get out at this time of year. Would be good to see a graph of that Harrop

Are u on m3cutters?

Yeah I’m on cutters mate.

I will share results once I’m happy everything where it should be.

[lonatic]

Old thread but did you ever figure it out? I was dealing with something similar even with the fuel it secondary pump installed (i'm on e85). After doing tons of reading and looking at similarities I was able to find out that on the driver side tank there is a sender unit/filter with a fuel pressure regulator built in (single wire). After putting it in (new one) I was able to see fuel pressure increase still waiting to hear back from my tuner but at redline on WOT i was able to see a jump of fuel pressure. Overall I saw a decent improvement in fuel pressure. Let me know if you got things sorted.

[Bakerboy]

Originally Posted by lonatic

Old thread but did you ever figure it out? I was dealing with something similar even with the fuel it secondary pump installed (i'm on e85). After doing tons of reading and looking at similarities I was able to find out that on the driver side tank there is a sender unit/filter with a fuel pressure regulator built in (single wire). After putting it in (new one) I was able to see fuel pressure increase still waiting to hear back from my tuner but at redline on WOT i was able to see a jump of 17psi (from 49 to 67). Overall I saw a decent improvement in fuel pressure. Let me know if you got things sorted.

All sorted now, went for the fuel it and had it mapped to suit on my syvecs

Cheers