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      03-01-2018, 09:56 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
The AG 19x9 wheels are +18 offset and most people who have tried to run a 255 on them report rubbing. Also, the ESS air filter pushes up against the fender liner and already rubs a little with my current 245s so I don't think the taller 255 would be a good option .
wouldn't a 255/35 be shorter than the oem 245/40?
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      03-01-2018, 10:37 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
wouldn't a 255/35 be shorter than the oem 245/40?
OEM is 245/35/19. I'm on 220M wheels right now.
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      03-01-2018, 11:10 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
Thanks for the insight. I'm between a few options, all with Avante Garde M359s and stock non-ZCP suspension:

1) 19x9/19x10 245/275 - possibly not enough rear grip with the SC
2) 19x9/19x10 245/295 - too much stagger
3) 19x10/19x10 275/295 - heavy steering & loss of feel

I wish I could do 19x9/19x10 255/295 as that would be a fair compromise between the above options, but the AG wheels would rub with a 255. I'm leaning toward option 3 but I don't love the idea of heavy steering and loss of feel...
I would not recommend a 295 on a 10" wheel. It can be done but far from ideal. I wouldn't go any narrower than a 10.5" wheel with a 295.

See Apex's post above. Great info there!

FWIW I run staggered on the street and track. I will likely be going with square on the track for the reason of rotation and cost savings. Unlimited funds I would stick with staggered. It can be made faster IMO (with the right car setup). I would run staggered on a dual purpose car with only a few track days per year, and a supercharger.
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      03-01-2018, 11:17 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
I would not recommend a 295 on a 10" wheel. It can be done but far from ideal. I wouldn't go any narrower than a 10.5" wheel with a 295.

See Apex's post above. Great info there!
I know it's not ideal and I'd love to get a 10.5 or 11 on the rear but I really want the ZCP wheel design and don't think 275 will be enough meat to put power down in 2nd. I've seen pics of 295s on ZCPs and I think they look fine, and are (barely) within spec for a 10. The only other wheel I'd consider is the F14 SDC, but whenever I go back and forth I end up leaning towards the ZCPs in terms of looks. So it's all about picking the best compromise.

What's the drawback of running a 295 on a 10" wheel on a SC daily driver?
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      03-01-2018, 11:23 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
I know it's not ideal and I'd love to get a 10.5 or 11 on the rear but I really want the ZCP wheel design and don't think 275 will be enough meat to put power down in 2nd. I've seen pics of 295s on ZCPs and I think it looks fine. The only other wheel I'd consider is the F14 SDC, but whenever I go back and forth I end up leaning towards the ZCPs in terms of looks. So it's all about picking the best compromise.
What model tires do you plan to get? That's a big factor. I would take a 275 tire with more grip over a lower grip 295. There are so many great wheels out there in more appealing sizing. However the ZCP design is great looking, I agree. Also why not get the real deal ZCP instead of a replica?
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      03-01-2018, 11:25 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
What are your thoughts on 19x10 square ZCP wheels, but with staggered 275/295 tires for a supercharged daily driver? Is the heavier steering worth it for the extra rear grip while maintaining 20mm stagger or is a 275 front really that bad for the street?
Although you can technically mount 275 / 295 tires on the square 19x10" wheels, why not run the optimum wheel width front and rear for superior sidewall support?

It all comes down to how you use your car, and your expectations for steering response / feedback, grip etc. 275/30-19 tires will mount up beautifully to the 19x10" wheel, however the 295/30-19 would be best supported by a 19x10.5" or 19x11" wheel.

The major benefit of running a square wheel configuration is the ability to rotate wheels and tires on all four corners of the car. If you stagger the tires, you have negated that ability. Furthermore, the shape of the sidewalls will look fairly different from front to rear when running a setup like this. This may not be a major factor for some, but it is worth mentioning.

Edit: It looks like Slicer has already provided similar info. Thanks Slicer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
What's the drawback of running a 295 on a 10" wheel on a SC daily driver?
Sidewall support. If handling and steering response is a primary concern for you, the 10" wheel does not support 295 tires when the car is pushed through a corner. The sidewall will flex and be less responsive to steering input, and ultimaltey feels "mushy" from the drivers perspective. For this reason, corner carvers and track oriented enthusiasts will typically run the widest wheel they can. Now if the car is mainly on the street and you are more focused on straight line grip, the 295's can totally be used.

- Ryan
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      03-01-2018, 11:27 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
What's the drawback of running a 295 on a 10" wheel on a SC daily driver?
A wider wheel will provide better support for the tire and deliver better performance. Primarily a benefit when cornering. A wider wheel will also increase the usable tread width. Lastly, aesthetically it looks bad.
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      03-01-2018, 11:30 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
A wider wheel will provide better support for the tire and deliver better performance. Primarily a benefit when cornering. A wider wheel will also increase the usable tread width. Lastly, aesthetically it looks bad.
I don't see a 295 on a 10" being heresy, especially in the rear of the car
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      03-01-2018, 11:30 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts View Post
Although you can technically mount 275 / 295 tires on the square 19x10" wheels, why not run the optimum wheel width front and rear for superior sidewall support?

It all comes down to how you use your car, and your expectations for steering response / feedback, grip etc. 275/30-19 tires will mount up beautifully to the 19x10" wheel, however the 295/30-19 would be best supported by a 19x10.5" or 19x11" wheel.

The major benefit of running a square wheel configuration is the ability to rotate wheels and tires on all four corners of the car. If you stagger the tires, you have negated that ability.

Furthermore, the sidewalls will look fairly different from front to rear when running a setup like this. This may not be a major factor for some, but it is worth mentioning.

Edit: It looks like Slicer has already provided similar info. Thanks Slicer!

- Ryan
Well said.

OP you have an opportunity to pick the best wheel spec for your planned tire. Why not do so? It would be different if you were stuck with 10" for a race class or there were no other wider options available. Not the case, there are so many great options out there.
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      03-01-2018, 11:32 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
What model tires do you plan to get? That's a big factor. I would take a 275 tire with more grip over a lower grip 295. There are so many great wheels out there in more appealing sizing. However the ZCP design is great looking, I agree. Also why not get the real deal ZCP instead of a replica?
I'm planning on Pilot Sport 4S tires, regardless of which size I end up going with.

I've seen a lot of wheel pics posted over the years and honestly don't think anything looks as good as ZCP. F14 SDC does come close though.

I can get square AG M359s powder coated in gloss gunmetal shipped to my door for $1,400 brand new. OEM ZCPs would need to be sourced used to keep cost down, and I would still need to add $500 to get them powder coated locally. The only complaint I've seen about the AG wheels is the finish quality/durability being inferior to OEM, which is irrelevant to me since mine would be powder coated anyway. I also would not be able to run 275/295 with a set of OEM staggered ZCP, so I'm back to my "not enough meat" dilemma. Basically I see no reason to get OEM wheels over AG in my case .
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      03-01-2018, 11:34 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I don't see a 295 on a 10" being heresy, especially in the rear of the car
It can be done but I still ask why? A wider wheel will deliver better performance with that tire size - and there are tons of options out there. Maybe I'm too anal but if I'm going to take the time to modify something on the car, and have the opportunity to do so in a way that optimizes that modification, then I'm going to do so.
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      03-01-2018, 11:39 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
I'm planning on Pilot Sport 4S tires, regardless of which size I end up going with.

I've seen a lot of wheel pics posted over the years and honestly don't think anything looks as good as ZCP. F14 SDC does come close though.

I can get square AG M359s powder coated in gloss gunmetal shipped to my door for $1,400 brand new. OEM ZCPs would need to be sourced used to keep cost down, and I would still need to add $500 to get them powder coated locally. The only complaint I've seen about the AG wheels is the finish quality/durability being inferior to OEM, which is irrelevant to me since mine would be powder coated anyway. I also would not be able to run 275/295 with a set of OEM staggered ZCP, so I'm back to my "not enough meat" dilemma. Basically I see no reason to get OEM wheels over AG in my case .

$10k+ on a supercharger and penny pinching on wheels does not make sense to me. There are a lot higher quality options out there. Plus you could buy four 10" ZCP wheels just as easily as four 10" AG. Be sure the powder coated doesn't bake at too high of a temperature as that can weaken the wheel.
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      03-01-2018, 11:41 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts View Post
Although you can technically mount 275 / 295 tires on the square 19x10" wheels, why not run the optimum wheel width front and rear for superior sidewall support?
No excuse other than I like the aesthetics of ZCP wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts View Post
It all comes down to how you use your car, and your expectations for steering response / feedback, grip etc. 275/30-19 tires will mount up beautifully to the 19x10" wheel, however the 295/30-19 would be best supported by a 19x10.5" or 19x11" wheel.

The major benefit of running a square wheel configuration is the ability to rotate wheels and tires on all four corners of the car. If you stagger the tires, you have negated that ability. Furthermore, the shape of the sidewalls will look fairly different from front to rear when running a setup like this. This may not be a major factor for some, but it is worth mentioning.
I have no interest in running square tires. The 275/30 295/30 combo actually comes very close to identical sidewall height to OEM 245/35 265/35 so that also shouldn't be an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexRaceParts View Post
Sidewall support. If handling and steering response is a primary concern for you, the 10" wheel does not support 295 tires when the car is pushed through a corner. The sidewall will flex and be less responsive to steering input, and ultimaltey feels "mushy" from the drivers perspective. For this reason, corner carvers and track oriented enthusiasts will typically run the widest wheel they can. Now if the car is mainly on the street and you are more focused on straight line grip, the 295's can totally be used.

- Ryan
Primary use of the car is on the street so I don't think I'm pushing it enough to notice the drawbacks of lack of sidewall support. However, lack of straight grip is something I do notice with the SC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
$10k+ on a supercharger and penny pinching on wheels does not make sense to me. There are a lot higher quality options out there. Plus you could buy four 10" ZCP wheels just as easily as four 10" AG. Be sure the powder coated doesn't bake at too high of a temperature as that can weaken the wheel.
It's not that I'm penny pinching on the wheels, I just happen to think the ZCP wheels look the best at ANY pricepoint. Why would I spend more on ZCP wheels when I can get literally the same exact thing for half the price? They will be powder coated either way because gunmetal is a non-negotiable for me, so they will be "weakened" regardless of AG or OEM. BTW, the SC was $6.5k used. I like saving money where I can .
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      03-01-2018, 11:50 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post

It's not that I'm penny pinching on the wheels, I just happen to think the ZCP wheels look the best at ANY pricepoint. Why would I spend more on ZCP wheels when I can get literally the same exact thing for half the price? They will be powder coated either way because gunmetal is a non-negotiable for me, so they will be "weakened" regardless of AG or OEM. BTW, the SC was $6.5k used. I like saving money where I can .

I love the look of ZCP wheels too. They are one of my favorite OE wheels of all time. I have strongly considered grabbing a 10" square set over the years. Not being critical about that. However I wouldn't install 295's on them and I wouldn't buy replicas. Sorry but the replica version is not going to be equal quality to OE. Finish, strength, resale, etc are all reduced. I also wouldn't powder coat, I would paint to avoid the potential for weakening. I'm trying to help, I hope it doesn't seem like I'm looking to start an argument here. You can take or leave my opinion.
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      03-01-2018, 11:51 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post

It's not that I'm penny pinching on the wheels, I just happen to think the ZCP wheels look the best at ANY pricepoint. Why would I spend more on ZCP wheels when I can get literally the same exact thing for half the price? They will be powder coated either way because gunmetal is a non-negotiable for me, so they will be "weakened" regardless of AG or OEM. BTW, the SC was $6.5k used. I like saving money where I can .

I wouldn't consider the AG wheels to be "literally the exact same thing" as ZCP wheels. I bet that the OEM ZCP wheels are higher quality and higher strength.

Some say they like AG wheels, but if you'd like to get wheels on the relatively cheaper side of the spectrum, you could consider APEX racing's mesh wheels (rotary forged barrel, cast face - ~$1,200-$1600 a set), Bimmerworld's forged wheels (~$2k a set), or Titan 7's forged wheels. (also ~$2k a set)

A simple set of OEM ZCP wheels with 255/275 PSS staggered may do just fine for you - it's just street, and they stick quite decently.
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      03-01-2018, 12:00 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by slicer View Post
I love the look of ZCP wheels too. They are one of my favorite OE wheels of all time. I have strongly considered grabbing a 10" square set over the years. Not being critical about that. However I wouldn't install 295's on them and I wouldn't buy replicas. Sorry but the replica version is not going to be equal quality to OE. Finish, strength, resale, etc are all reduced. I also wouldn't powder coat, I would paint to avoid the potential for weakening. I'm trying to help, I hope it doesn't seem like I'm looking to start an argument here. You can take or leave my opinion.
No worries man, absolutely not taking your posts as argumentative and I appreciate your insight! I've read damn near every wheel related post you've made over the years while researching my options...

Finish will be up to the quality of the powder coat job and will be a factor regardless of OEM vs AG. AG 359s are a very common wheel and virtually no one has complained about strength. Resale is of no concern, and given the lower initial cost it would actually likely be better than buying brand new ZCPs if I ended up selling at some point. I would powder coat rather than paint for durability. I know plenty of people with powder coated wheels and not a single one has had issues with weakened wheels so I'm willing to take my chances on the minimal risk.
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      03-01-2018, 12:08 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by kpewpew View Post
I wouldn't consider the AG wheels to be "literally the exact same thing" as ZCP wheels. I bet that the OEM ZCP wheels are higher quality and higher strength.

Some say they like AG wheels, but if you'd like to get wheels on the relatively cheaper side of the spectrum, you could consider APEX racing's mesh wheels (rotary forged barrel, cast face - ~$1,200-$1600 a set), Bimmerworld's forged wheels (~$2k a set), or Titan 7's forged wheels. (also ~$2k a set)

A simple set of OEM ZCP wheels with 255/275 PSS staggered may do just fine for you - it's just street, and they stick quite decently.
I haven't seen anybody say they DON'T like AG wheels. The only complaints I've seen are in regards to the finish chipping. In terms of strengths, I'm sure they will be just fine for my DD purposes.

I have considered all sorts of wheels, but keep coming back to ZCP for the aesthetics. I know Apex makes great wheels but in terms of looks, they don't come close IMO.
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      03-01-2018, 12:11 PM   #40
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Really? A quick google search shows many results, such as http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1112693
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      03-01-2018, 12:16 PM   #41
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Really? A quick google search shows many results, such as http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1112693
Alright, you got me, there is one guy who has complained lol. And he would have most likely bent his wheels regardless of them being AG, as noted in the other posts in that thread.
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      03-01-2018, 12:20 PM   #42
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There's more, just google "AG wheels cracked". Honestly I'm just sharing some cautionary warning because I've been through crap wheels. I consider them penny smart, pound foolish. Had rep wheels on my 325ci and once on my E46 M3 many years ago when I thought it was smart to save a couple bucks as well. It was not smart.

I understand you're really just interested in looks, so I'll step out of this thread- I simply suggest to think longer term, of the hassle and problems you may run into with higher probability.
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      03-01-2018, 12:29 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyzmi View Post
No worries man, absolutely not taking your posts as argumentative and I appreciate your insight! I've read damn near every wheel related post you've made over the years while researching my options...

Finish will be up to the quality of the powder coat job and will be a factor regardless of OEM vs ZCP. AG 359s are a very common wheel and virtually no one has complained about strength. Resale is of no concern, and given the lower initial cost it would actually likely be better than buying brand new ZCPs if I ended up selling at some point. I would powder coat rather than paint for durability. I know plenty of people with powder coated wheels and not a single one has had issues with weakened wheels so I'm willing to take my chances on the minimal risk.
Cool, glad you took it in the way I meant it. I have tried replica wheels in the past and the hassles of bent and cracked wheels are not for me. I will gladly pay for a higher quality product. You may want to dig a little deeper on the AG's. As shown by the post above^^

Also, another thing to keep in mind is the perspective that I'm coming from. I'm a complete wheel geek. Not sure why but I am. Further, the first thing I do to any car is attempt to improve the handling. That's my favorite aspect of this platform - tied with the exhaust note and high revving nature of the S65. The last thing I would do to the car is add a supercharger. That being said, I'm obsessed with the details of handling - hence my unwillingness to use a wheel that is not the ideal spec (or close to it) for the tires I choose. There are always compromises needed but in this case you don't need to compromise IMO. Best of luck and I hope whatever you choose works perfectly for your needs!
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      03-01-2018, 12:49 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
It can be done but I still ask why? A wider wheel will deliver better performance with that tire size - and there are tons of options out there. Maybe I'm too anal but if I'm going to take the time to modify something on the car, and have the opportunity to do so in a way that optimizes that modification, then I'm going to do so.
The why is simply because he wants to use ZCP wheels.

I have no doubt I prefer wider wheels. Hell, I have two sets of square 10.5 wheels I use with 275/35 tires
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