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      08-07-2018, 10:35 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davis449 View Post
So you won't respond to an article from a source that sourced it's info. from the CDC and other legit studies?

No, but not for the reasons you'd suspect. It's illegal to buy\use under 18. I wouldn't want them to get in trouble, legally speaking. I would thank my lucky stars they didn't pick up cigarettes. I would be FAR more concerned with them drinking underage. As far as the marketing is concerned, I actually don't give a shit about who they're targeting. I've never been one to care about any of that. I watch idiot parents like you rant and rave about cigarette companies' marketing practices yet stay utterly silent about the advertisements for fruity flavored malt liquor beverages that are everywhere (Billboards, TV, magazines, etc.). All you can do as a parent is educate, attempt to scare straight, and pray to God your kid makes the right decisions. They're a roll of the dice and you can only control so much.
a. https://www.cdc.gov/features/ecigare...ple/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_in...raphic-508.pdf
https://e-cigarettes.surgeongeneral.gov/
http://www.wvlt.tv/content/news/CDC-...479054703.html

b. Yea, I'm an idiot parent who cares about his children. And their access to alcoholic drinks is concerning, though its far more difficult to obtain and hide. Are you really a parent?

My guess is that you vape.
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      08-07-2018, 11:24 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
a. https://www.cdc.gov/features/ecigare...ple/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_in...raphic-508.pdf
https://e-cigarettes.surgeongeneral.gov/
http://www.wvlt.tv/content/news/CDC-...479054703.html

b. Yea, I'm an idiot parent who cares about his children. And their access to alcoholic drinks is concerning, though its far more difficult to obtain and hide. Are you really a parent?

My guess is that you vape.
A.) Your response is more fearmongering links and statistics concerning teen vaping trends? More "It's bad for you" based on the same flawed and debunked sources? More lying by omission from the government (concerning the toxins)?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallysa.../#78837d6d3b17

Best quote:

Quote:
Some reviewers of the 2016 report were so disaffected by the final report, that they took their names off the final product. One was Professor Kenneth Michael Cummings of the Medical University of South Carolina who co-leads the center’s Tobacco Research Program. As Cummings told me, “The 2016 report went well beyond any evidence base for making policy recommendations…it avoided the larger question of whether population health might be enhanced overall by the availability and marketing of products such as e-cigarettes that could potentially displace cigarettes.”
https://academic.oup.com/ntr/article/20/8/1031/3957931

Now let's get a global perspective:
http://colinmendelsohn.com.au/posts/...fiction-facts/

Keep posting fear mongering and I'll just post fact based research. And, yes, I vape. Because I am concerned about my own health, I do research periodically throughout the year, ever year. I like to know what's what. As soon as they find some seriously damning evidence that isn't flawed, I will be on the bandwagon to quit. Unlike you, I read the fear mongering articles all the way through. I've read so many of them and they are so biased, it's revolting.

B.) Go back and read my last post where I said it's your job as a parent to educate your children. It'll be a fun day for you when you lay your advise at your children's feet, they whip out their smart phone, and Google your bullshit to oblivion. Good luck with them trusting you after that. Do yourself and them a favor and present real information and not that link to the Surgeon General's warning. And your naivete concerning the ease of obtaining alcohol by teens and their ability to hide it makes me worry for you. It's as easy to get it today as it was 20 years ago when I was a teenager. When I was 16, I had hiding places for shit you wouldn't believe.

And, yes, I vape. I don't think I hid that anywhere. It was pretty evident when I told you I would go on enjoying my life without cigarettes and the post where I shared my own medical findings by my doctors.
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      08-07-2018, 11:33 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davis449 View Post
Keep posting fear mongering and I'll just post fact based research. And, yes, I vape. Because I am concerned about my own health, I do research periodically throughout the year, ever year. I like to know what's what. As soon as they find some seriously damning evidence that isn't flawed, I will be on the bandwagon to quit. Unlike you, I read the fear mongering articles all the way through. I've read so many of them and they are so biased, it's revolting.
The cdc, which you mentioned is supporting your position earlier, is revolting?

As for vaping, when we see someone doing it, I point out to my teenagers how stupid looking it is. Do you get that a lot? As I stated earlier, I'll bet you are tired of people telling you not to smoke, or vape. I would bet $1000 you resent it greatly (as I can deduce from your posts).

And your Dr. Mendolsohn advocates using your vapes to stop smoking, then to stop vaping. He DOES NOT advocate vaping.
http://colinmendelsohn.com.au/electr...uidelines-use/

Aim to use ECs for a limited time only. Although they are much safer than smoking, they do contain small amounts of chemicals. After a while on a higher strength solution, you can reduce to a lower strength of nicotine and even to a nicotine free solution before finally quitting.
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      08-07-2018, 11:51 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by are0lies View Post
Proof!
WHERE DID YOU FIND THIS CLASSIFIED INFO.
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      08-13-2018, 07:22 PM   #27
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Another reason not to Vape

Closing In On Vaping's Most Toxic Ingredient - D-brief - Discover
https://apple.news/AoWF42PxjMs2-GMvhFkdvQw
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      08-13-2018, 08:22 PM   #28
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One of my friends is Juuling all the time it's hilarious.

But seriously, if I were a parent I'd be upset.

As somebody in the medical profession, that there really is no defending this. The long-term effects of e-cigarettes are unknown as it is a recent phenomenon, but anything with tobacco will surely be harmful on the body. The only question is how much.

Sure they are a better alternative to cigarettes, but it's a very fair question for people (especially parents) to be asking how much damage this stuff does and why it is being advertised to their children.

Last edited by Germanauto; 08-13-2018 at 08:30 PM.
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      08-13-2018, 08:27 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davis449 View Post
"OMG, won't someone think about the children!?"

That's what I think about this. It's a bunch of B.S. Most all of the studies conducted whose results are interpreted to conclude vaping is bad for you or "worse than real cigarettes" (which just makes me ROLMFAO) have been either debunked or proven worthless based on extreme testing methods that go far beyond what the human element can actually produce. The popcorn lung one was probably my favorite debunked piece of garbage health science. Actually, it may be a tie for the one where they were using suction forces WAY beyond what a human can do, thus burning the coil, and generating what COULD be harmful agents IF consumed in mass quantities. Since its initial proclamation that e-cigs are a good thing for society, the DHS in the UK has since DOUBLED DOWN on that claim. Yet over here, our FDA is demonizing it as the second coming of Big Tobacco giving everybody cancer, etc. I smoked about a pack a day for 15 years and switched to only vaping 5 years ago. I get regular, yearly pulmonary x-rays and breathing tests. My endocrinologist can't believe the improvements.

As far as the kids are concerned. They're always go to try what you forbid them to. My God, it's like this, yes, THIS one thing is what's going to kill all the kids. Not that alcohol hasn't been doing this for decades or anything. I have several late teen nephews. All of them vape. I asked all four of them and not a single one would ever dream of picking up a cigarette. Given that the same avenues are available for underage kids to obtain both vaping gear and cigarettes, I'm actually thrilled teens are choosing the former over the latter. So sick of this nanny state crap.
Where is your M.D.?
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      08-13-2018, 09:25 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Where is your M.D.?
The internet knows way more than doctors. Don’t you know how things work in 2018?
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      08-14-2018, 08:27 AM   #31
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With teens hooked on vaping, FDA considers ban on flavored e-cigarette liquids - USA TODAY
https://apple.news/AG4Y1yQFaQuml-RPqnMLWag
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      08-14-2018, 10:11 AM   #32
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Vaping 'can damage vital immune system cells' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45170756
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      08-14-2018, 10:23 AM   #33
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      08-14-2018, 12:54 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Vaping 'can damage vital immune system cells' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45170756
Yet the article admits the results are inconclusive (only 48 hours of study). It also states that E cigs have less carcinogenic ingredients than regular cigarettes (also no tar). The end of the article says it's a good tool to quit smoking and certainly healthier than cigs.

I understand your point being it's horrible to market to kids. Absolutely it is. But somehow your thread got turned into bashing people who vape and how stupid they look doing it. Personally I vape to try and quit nicotine, the fact that you can slowly lower your nicotine levels makes it much easier than cutting down or going cold turkey off cigs (believe me I've tried both). Both my Dr. and Dentist agree it's a healthier alternative to cigarettes, especially since I'm getting less nicotine now and no tar. An average cigarette has 24 mg of nicotine, I've lowered mine to 3 mg with vaping. I also feel it is better for the environment since you don't have any cig butts to dispose of.

Like I said I agree it should NOT be marketed to kids. Is it healthy? Obviously not but most of the experts agree its a healthier alternative to cigarettes. So before you judge people how stupid they look vaping you should realize a huge portion of people are using it to try and quit smoking altogether.
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      08-14-2018, 12:59 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardio View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Vaping 'can damage vital immune system cells' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45170756
Yet the article admits the results are inconclusive (only 48 hours of study). It also states that E cigs have less carcinogenic ingredients than regular cigarettes (also no tar). The end of the article says it's a good tool to quit smoking and certainly healthier than cigs.

I understand your point being it's horrible to market to kids. Absolutely it is. But somehow your thread got turned into bashing people who vape and how stupid they look doing it. Personally I vape to try and quit nicotine, the fact that you can slowly lower your nicotine levels makes it much easier than cutting down or going cold turkey off cigs (believe me I've tried both). Both my Dr. and Dentist agree it's a healthier alternative to cigarettes, especially since I'm getting less nicotine now and no tar. An average cigarette has 24 mg of nicotine, I've lowered mine to 3 mg with vaping. I also feel it is better for the environment since you don't have any cig butts to dispose of.

Like I said I agree it should NOT be marketed to kids. Is it healthy? Obviously not but most of the experts agree its a healthier alternative to cigarettes. So before you judge people how stupid they look vaping you should realize a huge portion of people are using it to try and quit smoking altogether.
Good luck on quitting smoking. And I mean that. Vaping is better than smoking. I hope you can quit both soon.

But going in a different direction, I do point to my kids how stupid vaping looks. Having a huge cloud of smoke coming out of your car doesn't look good or cool. They have lots of friends who Vape, and I try to do everything I can to counter the Vape thing. I don't want them doing it.
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      08-14-2018, 01:20 PM   #36
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This thread's lengthy defenses of vaping and the poor quality of research into hazards does read like s/t from the flat-earth society. No need to reinvent the wheel here, Davis- nicotine (in isolation, not just in tobacco smoke) is a terribly addictive drug, and one that causes tremendous negative health effects. This is not a subject for much debate outside the boardrooms of Phillip Morris. A new way to ingest nicotine that is much more palatable to the general population would be a good candidate for a potential health problem; especially if it targets adolescents (adolescent susceptibility to addiction is also a well-established phenomenon - just ask any tobacco advertiser). Much of the problem is that humans tend to minimize the effects of addiction in favor of a belief in free will, so they rationalize and defend their addictive behaviors with pseudo-logic and polemic.

Unfortunately, we also know, from decades (centuries?) of research, that a bunch of older adults telling youngsters what to do or not do tends to have a paradoxical effect on many of them, and they do it more. Fortunately, there are many newer ways to message this that really are effective; you can identify them fairly easily as the ones that lobbyists work hard to suppress (like that teen-inspired campaign in Florida that was so effective they gutted it's budget). I'm eagerly awaiting the change from delicious looking fruity packages, to the ones with the cancer mouth and the trach-stoma. That does tend to take some of the 'cool' out of it (I'd also mention the erectile dysfunction, but from what I've seen, very few vapers would know what to do w/ an erection).
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      08-14-2018, 01:59 PM   #37
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I have been using a nicotine vaporizer for about 5 years now, after smoking cigarettes for 15 years. I have found that initially without doing my homework, alot of the hardware / consumables i was using were not very safe. At this point 5 yrs in, i have done my own homework, and use hardware that is safer, and liquids that are locally produced with FDA organic compounds. My health is definately better than when i smoked, and the urge to smoke has gone down significantly as i dose down the nicotine content. I think this is one of the biggest advantage to smoking, being able to quantify the amount of nicotine being consumed.

I have even converted a 50year smoker, my father. He smoked Marlboro Red for almost 50 years, and has now been using a vaporizer for the last 3 years. His health and happiness have definitely changed for the better, and my mom is very very happy with the change from him as well.

So there is a place for vaporizers in our present day. No they are not 100% safe, but if you choose your products wisely ( same as you would with any consumable going into or onto your body) then they are a much better alternative to the traditional cigarette.

Just my $0.02.
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      08-14-2018, 02:18 PM   #38
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Definitely less health damage vs. smoking tobacco (if using pure and reputable products); but because the delivery system is unchanged, they leave the user just one step from a relapse. Dropping nicotine levels is a good initial step, but if you are aiming to quit, you will have an easier time if you switch to a patch at some point. Then you combat the habit-patterns while still having nicotine on board (so no physio withdrawal). Once you are no longer 'reaching for one' at those habitual points, you can drop off the patch.
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      08-14-2018, 04:37 PM   #39
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Patch and carrot sticks.

It's not easy to quit. I tried a dozen times before it finally stuck. The event that did it for me was starting a new job; I didn't know anybody, couldn't bum smokes. I have to say I'm really glad vaping wasn't around -- I might still be sucking on sticks.
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      08-15-2018, 05:50 PM   #40
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Wow, this thread was more heated than I thought it would be. Is it a better alternative to cigarettes and a way to stop smoking for someone that is already addicted? Sure. Is it safe for people, likely not. Should we be marketing how cool it is to kids (or people in general) that do not have a reason to use them other than to look cool - hell no.
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      09-12-2018, 07:17 PM   #41
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US plans crackdown on e-cigarette firms citing 'epidemic' teen use http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45500894
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