Whos running Mobil 1 0w-40?

[e92zero]

Originally Posted by W///

I drive the same commute to work everyday, so yes I know how my car is supposed to react...

+1 to this. I have been resetting my mile counter every morning for the last 2 months for fun just to see what kind of distance I am going from home to work through different route. I drive exactly 1.3 miles before I get on the freeway in the morning. My water temp hit 140 degree at around 0.7-0.9 miles in the morning. I know this because I set my water temp gauge to change color at 140. The oil temp needle now starts moving right around the 1 mile where as before, it won't start moving until I get on the freeway and almost at the 2 miles mark. Compare to how consistently that water temp hit the 140 degree mark within 0.2 miles every morning, I would say a mile difference between when the oil temp needle starts moving is a very obvious change. Again, I don't know every single little detail but just reporting what I have seen and it's not causal 'speculation'. Also, I don't go over 3k rpm in the morning until I can get a reading on the oil level meter. I don't even trust the variable redline. Cheers.

[White 13]

Originally Posted by Billj747

Thinner oil heats up quicker because it has a higher thermal conductivity than thicker oils. And water has a much higher thermal conductivity than oil which is why your water gets up to temp quicker than your oil.

Best possible explanation I have heard so far.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Billj747

Thinner oil heats up quicker because it has a higher thermal conductivity than thicker oils.

I can see how thermal conductivity would be important.
However finding out the thermal conductivity of the two oils has proven elusive.
I have read though that synthetic oils with esters tend to have a better thermal conductivity and that the higher the density of a synthetic oil the higher the thermal conductivity...ie thermal conductivity is a function of its density. (Fuels and Lubricants Handbook: Technology, Properties, Performance, Volume 1).
The density of the Mobil 1 New Life 0W40 ll-01 @ 15.6 ºC, g/ml is 0.85
The density of Castrol Edge pro. TWS 10W60 @ 15 ºC, g/ml is 0.853

If I understand the theory correctly the fact that the two oils have essentially the same density at 15C would indicate that their thermal conductivities should be similar.

[Richbot]

Thermal conductivity is not significantly different between oil grades not enough to account for the observed changes in warmup time anyway. Film thickness differences are the likely culprit, thinner film means more heat input per unit volume of oil at the protected surfaces which means quicker and higher magnitude rise in temperature. Flow rate is also probably a little higher with the thinner oil, which means more throughput and more oil will see a bearing surface sooner.

A lighter oil all things being equal and they never are does in my experience make more power. I've seen a 3-4% increase going from a 5-30 to a 0-20 in a racing application. Ideal for long-term use probably not, but windage is windage.

[JEllis]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Thermal conductivity is not significantly different between oil grades not enough to account for the observed changes in warmup time anyway. Film thickness differences are the likely culprit, thinner film means more heat input per unit volume of oil at the protected surfaces which means quicker and higher magnitude rise in temperature. Flow rate is also probably a little higher with the thinner oil, which means more throughput and more oil will see a bearing surface sooner.

A lighter oil all things being equal and they never are does in my experience make more power. I've seen a 3-4% increase going from a 5-30 to a 0-20 in a racing application. Ideal for long-term use probably not, but windage is windage.

Agree, most likely the regulated flow rate of the oil has a nominal range. Most likely M1 0W-40 flows slightly faster.

[aus]

Is anyone else burning a lot more oil?
I'm about 2,000 miles into my 0W40 and I'm at least 1/2 a quarte and it looks liek 3/4 quart down already!!
My Blackstone was pretty clean, so I may switch back next oil change, which will be by BMW anyway.

My 335 also burns 0W40, but doesn't burn a drop of BMW 5W30.

.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Thermal conductivity is not significantly different between oil grades not enough to account for the observed changes in warmup time anyway. Film thickness differences are the likely culprit, thinner film means more heat input per unit volume of oil at the protected surfaces which means quicker and higher magnitude rise in temperature. Flow rate is also probably a little higher with the thinner oil, which means more throughput and more oil will see a bearing surface sooner.

The majority of published material seems to suggest that there really won't be much difference between two synthetic oils which are reasonably close in viscosity. The benefits of a slightly thinner oil tend to be offset by the increase in heat put into the heavier oil by the extra energy required to move it at the same flow rate.
I imagine that once the oil cooler kicks in, an engine using Mobil 1 will run a little cooler.

[W///]

Originally Posted by aus

Is anyone else burning a lot more oil?
I'm about 2,000 miles into my 0W40 and I'm at least 1/2 a quarte and it looks liek 3/4 quart down already!!
My Blackstone was pretty clean, so I may switch back next oil change, which will be by BMW anyway.

My 335 also burns 0W40, but doesn't burn a drop of BMW 5W30.

.

Not a lot more. Mine didn't ask to a drop of oil when running 10W60, but I added 0.6 quarts during 5k miles interval (at around 4k I think). But I was beating the living hell out of that car during mountain drives during that interval. FYI, the report came back cleaner than 10W60 even though the oil was being worked harder.

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I imagine that once the oil cooler kicks in, an engine using Mobil 1 will run a little cooler.

Yes once it goes past normal operating temps during hard driving or heavy traffic, it comes back down to 210F faster than 10W60 did.

[Richbot]

Correct me if Im wrong but i dont think this engine has a direct sensor on the oil temperature correct? So any changes in warmup time from the oil will be indirect effects which show up in coolant temps. Since most of the cooling system load of an engine is in the cylinder heads perhaps the lighter oil, due to less residence time in the heads since it flows better at low temps, is not taking as much heat out of the heads and more heat is ending up in the coolant?

[Leonardo629]

You're right, I don't think S65 has a dedicated oil temp sensor, I'm almost sure the oil temp is based a fixed algorithm that depend on the rise and fall of the coolant temp, but I could be wrong.

I'm currently running M1 0W40, and it takes roughly 5 miles of freeway driving @ 70~75MPH to reach the operating temp (you can see the little clock starting to turn at the oil level reading screen in the center of the gauge cluster. This is consistently true whether the ambient temp is 80F or 55F here in So. Cal.

Originally Posted by Richbot

Correct me if Im wrong but i dont think this engine has a direct sensor on the oil temperature correct? So any changes in warmup time from the oil will be indirect effects which show up in coolant temps. Since most of the cooling system load of an engine is in the cylinder heads perhaps the lighter oil, due to less residence time in the heads since it flows better at low temps, is not taking as much heat out of the heads and more heat is ending up in the coolant?

[kenwelch]

Originally Posted by Leonardo629

You're right, I don't think S65 has a dedicated oil temp sensor, I'm almost sure the oil temp is based a fixed algorithm that depend on the rise and fall of the coolant temp, but I could be wrong.

The oil temperature sensor is located in the oil level sensor. For additional information see the attached PDF here:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...2&postcount=11

[Richbot]

Does anyone know if that signal is used by the ecu for anything other than oil level? Since the s65 doesn't use cbs like other BMWs which use the same sensor, it's a fixed oil change interval

[kenwelch]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Does anyone know if that signal is used by the ecu for anything other than oil level?

The oil condition sensor sends its measured values to the engine management system:
Engine oil temperature
Oil level
Engine oil quality

The engine oil temperature, oil level, and engine oil quality values are sent using a Bit-serial data interface (BSD) to the MSS60 engine control system (DME) which shares the data to the instrument cluster thru the CAS module. The DME and CAS use the CAS-Bus (network connection) for sharing data. The CAS module and the Kombi (instrument cluster) share data on the K-CAN bus (network). The oil temperature reading is then available to see in the instrument cluster.

The network graphic and key can be found here on page 64 and 65:
http://www.m3post.com/goodiesforyou/...nformation.pdf

[checkmate]

I'm curious as to how many folks have run a full track event (at least 240 minutes) worth over a weekend using M1 0W-40.

My concern with all this discussion is that had BMW tested and verified 0W-40 would do the job, they would've partnered with Castrol to provide the same NO? The whole argument that TWS 10W-60 is essentially to support the Castrol partnership sounds sketchy.

Here's what I do know (based on reading this thread)-M1 0W-40 has lent to lower operating temps + faster cold start-ups and in some cases better mpg (speculation).

I'm looking for hard science that proves M1 0W-40 proves beneficial to the S65 over the long term (at least 50,000 mile tested).

I intend on keeping my car for at least 100,000 miles (if not more) and I NEED SOLID FACTS that are tested/verified.

[tinman831]

Originally Posted by checkmate

I'm curious as to how many folks have run a full track event (at least 240 minutes) worth over a weekend using M1 0W-40.

My concern with all this discussion is that had BMW tested and verified 0W-40 would do the job, they would've partnered with Castrol to provide the same NO? The whole argument that TWS 10W-60 is essentially to support the Castrol partnership sounds sketchy.

Here's what I do know (based on reading this thread)-M1 0W-40 has lent to lower operating temps + faster cold start-ups and in some cases better mpg (speculation).

I'm looking for hard science that proves M1 0W-40 proves beneficial to the S65 over the long term (at least 50,000 mile tested).

I intend on keeping my car for at least 100,000 miles (if not more) and I NEED SOLID FACTS that are tested/verified.

We all want more solid conclusions but no one has run Mobil 1 for that long.

[W///]

Originally Posted by checkmate

I'm curious as to how many folks have run a full track event (at least 240 minutes) worth over a weekend using M1 0W-40.

My concern with all this discussion is that had BMW tested and verified 0W-40 would do the job, they would've partnered with Castrol to provide the same NO? The whole argument that TWS 10W-60 is essentially to support the Castrol partnership sounds sketchy.

Here's what I do know (based on reading this thread)-M1 0W-40 has lent to lower operating temps + faster cold start-ups and in some cases better mpg (speculation).

I'm looking for hard science that proves M1 0W-40 proves beneficial to the S65 over the long term (at least 50,000 mile tested).

I intend on keeping my car for at least 100,000 miles (if not more) and I NEED SOLID FACTS that are tested/verified.

Like I told you a few pages ago, you will not get solid facts. How are you supposed to get that? The only way would be if someone changed their bearings, ran only M1 0W40, drive 50k miles and tear everything down again and check new bearings. Who is going to do that? You will not get that info here, it's just not realistic.

There's only so much info out there. There's a few Blackstone oil reports out there that show less bearing wear on M1 after the switch. If you aren't sure, stick with 10W60 and do oil analysis, and save up for rod bearing job should the results not be good. Not sure what else you can expect?

[Leonardo629]

I don't think anyone here with oil knowledge ever argued that the use of TWS is essentially a contractual thing with Castrol, it is...but it's not the whole story. BMW prescribed the oil in a market wide effort to fix the bearing issues found in E46 M3s and possibly E39 M5s

E46 M3s was using good ol' 5W30 until the bearing recalls, and suddenly BMW starting prescribing TWS. This is before M1 0W40 came into the market.

Fast forward to the E92/E90 years, high revving cars with high BHP/ltr ratio are filled with 0W40 and 5W40 from the factory, namely Porsches and Ferraris that produce more BHP/liter than our S65. Nissan GTRs are filled with M1 0W40, and I'm pretty sure that thing run hot.

Malek and JELLIS I believe run M1 0W40 in their M3s, and they both frequent race tracks at the average forum member on this board.

I can't ask you to take a leap of faith, but do some research, and switch if you want, many have done it already.

Originally Posted by checkmate

I'm curious as to how many folks have run a full track event (at least 240 minutes) worth over a weekend using M1 0W-40.

My concern with all this discussion is that had BMW tested and verified 0W-40 would do the job, they would've partnered with Castrol to provide the same NO? The whole argument that TWS 10W-60 is essentially to support the Castrol partnership sounds sketchy.

Here's what I do know (based on reading this thread)-M1 0W-40 has lent to lower operating temps + faster cold start-ups and in some cases better mpg (speculation).

I'm looking for hard science that proves M1 0W-40 proves beneficial to the S65 over the long term (at least 50,000 mile tested).

I intend on keeping my car for at least 100,000 miles (if not more) and I NEED SOLID FACTS that are tested/verified.

[dreamspeed]

They finally had M1 0w40 at the local wal mart the last time I was there so I'll be making the switch in about 2k miles

[e92zero]

Besides the contract aspect between BMW and Castrol, other posters have also mentioned that the use of the TWS might be due to the long change interval at 15k miles. I took a leap of faith and am very happy with 0-40 right now so will see what Blackstone report back later.

[Foozed]

I just had my oil changed at the dealer for the low mile oil change 2012 w 16k miles) and I have my first 2 track days (with this car) coming up next week. I historically would change oil in my cayman after every 3rd track day with 0w40 and am a fan of that oil.

If I choose to go to ow40 after my track days is there any harm in leaving the filter for a while even though in running the thicker oem oil now?

[W///]

Originally Posted by Foozed

I just had my oil changed at the dealer for the low mile oil change 2012 w 16k miles) and I have my first 2 track days (with this car) coming up next week. I historically would change oil in my cayman after every 3rd track day with 0w40 and am a fan of that oil.

If I choose to go to ow40 after my track days is there any harm in leaving the filter for a while even though in running the thicker oem oil now?

That's a good question, and I'll be honest I don't know the answer. It's probably ok since it'll really low mileage on the oil, but if it was me personally, I'd go ahead and just change the filter, it's only $20 bucks.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by checkmate

I NEED SOLID FACTS that are tested/verified.

As has already been stated there are none...when enough Mobil 1 users have arrived at say 100k miles with better/worse bearing wear and with/without other unintended consequences (camshaft lobe wear etc) then there will be something to go on.
In the meantime you need to decide on the balance of probabilities, who is most likely to have got it right - the BMW engineers who designed and built the S65 knowing that a 10W60 oil was the oil of choice or what a few guys on the Internet say.