Ethical dilemma: would you sell an M3 to a 16-yr old?

[pcohen15]

I'm selling my car for the first time literally in decades because I've been leasing for what seems like forever. I get a lot of texts, no phone calls, so its somewhat difficult to determine -- without outright asking -- the age of the potential buyer.

Had a long session yesterday with somebody who seemed knowledgeable. Asked the right questions, then writes that he's 16 and this will be his first car.

Despite my eagerness to sell the car, I started to think about a 16 year old blasting around in an M3. Maybe getting in an accident in the car I sold him.

I already wrote him that if we meet so he can see the car, one of his parents has to be there as well. Am I being an old geezer or thinking responsibly?

Do I tell him D2 is the only setting that works?

What would you do?

[roastbeef]

although i would love to see my car go to a good home, at the end of the day, i care more about who pays me the most.

[MJBO]

You’re not their parent, if they are willing to pay a good price take the deal.

I did dumb shit when I was younger in cars just a powerful as my M3, not the sellers fault.

I’ve loved many of my cars, but when it was time to move on I couldn’t care less who bought it. If they were nice to deal with and paid what I was happy with, SOLD!

[GRUESOM3]

I can already see the headlines.

"Man arrested after 16 year old wraps high powered Bmw m3 around a tree on a test drive"

[timothy2001]

16 = need parents present. Heck in most if not all states at that age they are not bound by any legal agreement much less a car purchase.

You are 100% correct in my book unless 18 and then it becomes an ethical question. From one old geezer to another.

[pbonsalb]

I think any contract a 16 year old makes can be voided. Sell the car to someone over 18. Give that person a bill of sale. Leave the back of the title blank. Let that person sell/assign it.

A 16 year old can drive a motorcycle that goes and accelerates faster than an old M3 so I don’t see a problem with the speed. Kids do stupid things. You can caution but can’t prevent. Tell him to sign up for a bmw CCA school. He will need parental consent for that as well.

[roastbeef]

you sell it to the parents, really.

[BOOF-M3]

I'm somewhat shocked at the question and the advice. My first car at the age of 16 was a 1973 Camaro that I purchased for cash by myself with zero parents present. What makes today any different than 30 years ago?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

I'm somewhat shocked at the question and the advice. My first car at the age of 16 was a 1973 Camaro that I purchased for cash by myself with zero parents present. What makes today any different than 30 years ago?

My friend , remember the S65 has *420 HP* under the hood .
Think that's clearly the difference with a 1973 Camaro ...

On the other hand , Personal I think 16 is too young to drive a car . In Europe 18 is required .
Of course at 16 , the cash comes from the parents..

[eatsleepboost]

You can look at it another way. You are selling a car to somebody who doesn't know cars outside of video games. If they fall in love with their first car it will change them forever. They will always want a performance car and may also stick with only German etc...

I know this cause I got my first Evo at 18 and I have been a car enthusiast ever since. Too bad you don't have a manual for the kid though. They may never learn.

[spazzyfry123]

Cars I saved up and bought / traded for by the time I was 18:

2002 Mustang GT
1999 Camaro SS
1996 Cobra (supercharged/meth 480 to the wheels)
2001 Ford Lightning

Some more powerful than the M3 and all a lot less predictable at speed with, let's be honest, pretty terrible suspension for anything other than straight.

I don't see any issue with it, but I agree that a parent may need to be involved just to CYA. When I bought, sold, and traded all the time (back when taxes were handled differently in Georgia), I did everything solo. But looking back at it, I really wonder how things could have been different with me being under 18. If I was a little sh!t that knew how to work the system, could I have wiggled my way out of the agreement just because I'm "young and naive?"

I say go for it, Peter. Just do some reading on the possible ways it could negatively affect you from a legal perspective. Safety, age, and money are mommy and daddy's responsibility. Look out for numero uno.

[Mvy]

You cannot enter in to a legally binding agreement with a minor. It would be a risk as a seller I would not take. Even if the parents step in at the end to sign the paperwork, I don't care, you have negotiated a contract with a minor which is not legally binding since you were not talking to his parents. Not to mention, no 16 year old kid should be allowed to own this car. Someone should slap his parents for even letting him make phone calls like this. How would you feel when a 16 year old that scammed you into making you feel like "hes a good knowledgeable kid" kills himself and others in your old car? You the type of person who can take the money and not think about that? He has a half year of driving experience for Christ sake, you want to be the one to hand him the keys to 3900 lbs and 430 hp? Sometimes as a parent, I do find it necessary to parent other peoples kids when theirs are absent in mind or body. I don't want to live with how my need for money lead to the death of others. Don't need that on my karmic weight in life.

If you are not getting bites on your sale enough that you are considering making a decision like this, perhaps you have priced the car too high or there is some other issue in your timing or location of sale.

[Timujin]

If the kid can't drive well, he could end up taking himself, you or someone else out flying up Pima Rd to Care Free. If the kid is named Miro Andretti go for it.

You, the parents and kid would have to pile in the M3 on a hell ride to the closest MVD office at the time of sale.

I can't believe some of the comments here.

[Richbot]

I was told I had a $15k budget for my first self directed car purchase.

I found out later this did not mean 1970’s 911’s, it meant for a NEW, BORING AS POSSIBLE car that wouldn’t cause any headaches while I was away at college



Many tires were kicked before then. Much dealer time was wasted.

I was 18 though, and had been driving, and not flipped wrecked or otherwise screwed up in my first car.

Maybe this is one of those

[kyrix1st]

Keep it for another two years and sell it to me. I will be in the States by then and will need a car there

[panda-R]

He can make his own choices and mistakes in life. We can't police everyone in the world. The world wouldn't be so messed up if we could.

Sell the car let the man enjoy the M3!

[3Pedals_6Speeds]

Whether he can handle it or not doesn't seem to be your call. I had a friend who raced carts and such from age 9 on and by the time he was legal to drive on the roads could outdrive 99% of the population (safety and performance-wise).

Regarding the legal aspects, I wouldn't enter into a contract with a minor, in case something goes wrong. I would advise him of that up front, and ask him to bring his legal guardian with him to test drive. If he's legally emancipated, that might change it, but otherwise, I wouldn't sell to a minor.

[m3rock41]

I give you credit for asking. As others have mentioned, make sure the parents are the legal buyers.

We are living in a world of 300hp fwd Camry. If the kid drives stupid he could just as easy get into trouble in “family cars” that have power but not the handling.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

I'm somewhat shocked at the question and the advice. My first car at the age of 16 was a 1973 Camaro that I purchased for cash by myself with zero parents present. What makes today any different than 30 years ago?

More laws and litigation.

[cjm41]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

My friend , remember the S65 has *420 HP* under the hood .
Think that's clearly the difference with a 1973 Camaro ...

It has 420HP, but it also has like 10 airbags, dynamic stability control, anti-lock breaks, etc etc. I'd rather crash an M3 doing 90 then a 73 Camaro doing 30.

Were there even seatbelt laws in 73?

Kids are driving much faster cars than the M3, at least the M3 is a safe fast car.

You're selling the car to the kid's parent anyway. People are too up in each other's business lately. The only thing worth mentioning to the parent is that they do a little research on the car, in general, because there are safety features that can be disabled with an app or a tune (like the seatbelt chimes) and it couldn't hurt to be aware of features of the car that could be changed.

Personally, if I were the type of person to buy a kid an M3, I'd probably find ways to limit the car to 90MPH, make it impossible to turn off DSC, etc. But I'm not going to tell another parent what to do.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by cjm41

It has 420HP, but it also has like 10 airbags, dynamic stability control, anti-lock breaks, etc etc. I'd rather crash an M3 doing 90 then a 73 Camaro doing 30.

Were there even seatbelt laws in 73?

Kids are driving much faster cars than the M3, at least the M3 is a safe fast car.

You're selling the car to the kid's parent anyway. People are too up in each other's business lately. The only thing worth mentioning to the parent is that they do a little research on the car, in general, because there are safety features that can be disabled with an app or a tune (like the seatbelt chimes) and it couldn't hurt to be aware of features of the car that could be changed.

Personally, if I were the type of person to buy a kid an M3, I'd probably find ways to limit the car to 90MPH, make it impossible to turn off DSC, etc. But I'm not going to tell another parent what to do.

Truth. When the young girl totaled my M3 a couple months ago it was a HARD hit. We came out with a few injuries, but we're still here. Would have been a LOT worse had we been in the 190 HP 2001 Jeep Cherokee.

[exVtekGuy]

I'd worry about the legal aspects more than the ethical aspects as others suggested.