M3 vs cayman S

[stickypaws]

Originally Posted by urbo73

This is a myth some Porsche people love to talk about - "the purity of the air cooled 911s" nonsense. I don't want to tell you what my oil temps and post session idle pressures were with the "air/oil" cooled 911 engine. The water cooled is a much better option, believe me. The new 911s are better in every way - on and off the track. On track they are more durable and faster. Off track more composed and quiet. Cars have their charm, sure, but the new ones are 10x better.

That was the whole point of my post. I guess you missed it. Hey, and I even own an oil/air cooled 911.

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

That was the whole point of my post. I guess you missed it. Hey, and I even own an oil/air cooled 911.

No I got it. I double quoted and disagreed with top quote and agreed with your quote (implicitly). My Internet forum form is not in form....!

[graider]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

dull steering, too soft, horrible interior that reminded me of EVERY other lexus I'd ever been in, not 420hp fast.

And yes.... I own a car lmao

hehe, i was just kidding about you not owning car. but i wouldn't think the lexus is crab by any mean. i tested drove it and didn't really have a chance to push it on the street, but it is not that bad compare to the m3 that i test drove on the same day. i would say it is about 90-95% of the m3, which is not bad on first attempt. I think the interior is not bad either, the quality of the material and the seats are quite nice.

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by graider

hehe, i was just kidding about you not owning car. but i wouldn't think the lexus is crab by any mean. i tested drove it and didn't really have a chance to push it on the street, but it is not that bad compare to the m3 that i test drove on the same day. i would say it is about 90-95% of the m3, which is not bad on first attempt. I think the interior is not bad either, the quality of the material and the seats are quite nice.

Yeah, it's a nice car. Just don't push it or drive it too hard though, because it won't take it. M3 is superior in that regard.

Just like the Z06 may be faster over a single lap or two than a GT3, the Z06 will fall apart at the limit after a few laps. The GT3 is built to be driven hard. The Z06 is not. So numbers don't mean much out of context.

[graider]

Originally Posted by urbo73

Yeah, it's a nice car. Just don't push it or drive it too hard though, because it won't take it. M3 is superior in that regard.

Just like the Z06 may be faster over a single lap or two than a GT3, the Z06 will fall apart at the limit after a few laps. The GT3 is built to be driven hard. The Z06 is not. So numbers don't mean much out of context.

this i'm not sure as I don't own either one. anyone who own the 06 and track them please confirm. curious to know if z06 and isf would fall apart when push hard on the track.

[SCCAForums.com]

Z06 weak link... if pushed for MULTIPLE track days... is the PBR Brakes... everything else is bullet proof... but the brakes are weak.

It would still handle a couple full track day weekends... but wouldn't handle a 3 hour enduro out of the box. IMO

[graider]

Originally Posted by SCCAForums.com

Z06 weak link... if pushed for MULTIPLE track days... is the PBR Brakes... everything else is bullet proof... but the brakes are weak.

It would still handle a couple full track day weekends... but wouldn't handle a 3 hour enduro out of the box. IMO

if so i wouldn't call it falling apart as urbo said. um...

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by a burrito

Can we all agree that Graider still doesn't know what he's comparing cause he hasn't got any seattime in any porsche? Albeit the 997.1s is close in performance to the e9x M3, but the feeling is COMPLETELY different. He still doesn't know what hes in for in the GT3. DSC doesn't won't save your ass in a porsche.

I have no seat time in a GT3 996 nor 997 based. However, from what I have heard (and what makes perfectly logical sense) the electronic stability control in the 997 GT3 will save your ass perfectly well, just as well as the DSC in the M3. Of course neither system will allow you to break the laws of physics. In this case either reading a proper review of the car, talking to those who have pushed it along with basic knowledge of what modern systems are capable of, negate the need to have seat time to come to a valid conclusion.

This is in line with my general philosophy on this mpre general point. Character is well addressed with seat time, however, a not all knowledge of a vehicle must be the result of direct personal experience with the car.

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by graider

if so i wouldn't call it falling apart as urbo said. um...

Fall apart yes, as in having to manhandle it at the limit. Not as in body panels falling off. The closer you drive it at the limit, the more you have to fight it/manhandle it. Hardly an ideal situation for tires, etc. etc. I can go on....GT3 behaves well. And also falling apart mechanically - brakes cant handle the heat, cracked rotors and blown calipers are frequent, overcooked transmissions, etc…Go drive each for 50 laps and see.

[graider]

Originally Posted by urbo73

Fall apart yes, as in having to manhandle it at the limit. Not as in body panels falling off. The closer you drive it at the limit, the more you have to fight it/manhandle it. Hardly an ideal situation for tires, etc. etc. I can go on....GT3 behaves well. And also falling apart mechanically - brakes cant handle the heat, cracked rotors and blown calipers are frequent, overcooked transmissions, etc…Go drive each for 50 laps and see.

gotcha.

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by graider

gotcha.

That being said, the Z06 is an incredible bang for the buck fun car at the track compared to the much pricier GT3. And outside of open wheel cars, the cars I've driven most at the track are 911s and the C5/C6 Z06s. But for me the 911s are a lot smoother and can stand up to a lot more hard driving (especially the GT3s) than the Vettes. But both require some learning before pushing at the limit. Very, very different dynamics, but both can bite you if not careful. The limits on these cars are extremely high, and most don't get close, because they can be intimidating cars. They also both have true dry sump systems and can be pushed very hard safely w/o worry to the engine, especially in long higher G sweepers. This is not true of the non-GT 911s/Caymans/Boxsters and most other cars, including the M3. I've seen a couple of smoked engines from people using track tires which allowed higher Gs on long corners...Something to think about when taking your wet sump car to the track. Even Porsche's "integrated dry sump" is not enough. Good enough if using street tires, but not if using track tires and really pushing it.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by urbo73

I've seen a couple of smoked engines from people using track tires which allowed higher Gs on long corners...Something to think about when taking your wet sump car to the track. Even Porsche's "integrated dry sump" is not enough. Good enough if using street tires, but not if using track tires and really pushing it.

You can get this $7000 kit for the E92 M3:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...2-DRY-SUMP-KIT

For the E30 M3, this $78 kit does the job:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html..._ID=TEN3031B30

We should meet up for coffee and go for a drive before it starts snowing for real. You did see the flakes earlier this week, right?