evo: New M3 is a "disappointment"

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Reality is that there are a few reviews from several publications globally that also bring up similar issues. A lot of people are judging the M4 relative to other turbos, but Ford and GM today (and BMW M a few years ago), as well as most race drivers, prefer the characteristics of N/A engines and are keeping them alive as long as they can.

Also, for all the talk of wow, the trap of the M4 hits 121 trap, 3.9 secs to 60 is amazing, so much less weight etc etc… I've had the chance to go head to head on tracks with the new M3s/4s in intermediate run groups, and it's not like these cars are blowing past everything else. Prior gens M3s (E90 and E46) in most amateur hands are just as fast and it really takes very advanced/club race level to fully exploit the full potential of the car without getting yourself into trouble.

The future is small displacement turbo cars. Unless gas keeps going down, which it should. But Chevy and Ford are also doing it. The Mustang now has a turbo motor in the base car and it's really, really fast. There's also the turbo F150, etc.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by s85e90

The future is small displacement turbo cars. Unless gas keeps going down, which it should. But Chevy and Ford are also doing it. The Mustang now has a turbo motor in the base car and it's really, really fast. There's also the turbo F150, etc.

fuel prices are half the problem. Emissions are the other half. these smaller, turbo engines pollute less. pollution is probably the single biggest problem for planet earth as of right now.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by Ezio

fuel prices are half the problem. Emissions are the other half. these smaller, turbo engines pollute less. pollution is probably the single biggest problem for planet earth as of right now.

While the "Otto" internal combustion engine is not efficient by any means, tech has allowed newer cars to almost produce zero emisions. Look at Honda ULEV cars. Those are NA as well. The big polluter is trucking industry IMO.

[V1.47fan]

Evo thinks the new M3 is a disappointment, strange because Autobild thinks the F8X is so great that they made it their car of the year.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1064407

I'll go with Autobild on this ...

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by s85e90

While the "Otto" internal combustion engine is not efficient by any means, tech has allowed newer cars to almost produce zero emisions. Look at Honda ULEV cars. Those are NA as well. The big polluter is trucking industry IMO.

let me say it again.

its easier to hit emissions with certain engine styles. not to mention there is a push for smaller displacement engines in some parts of the world. Europe being one of them. So many factors, other than gas prices are ALSO going to make it hard to see engines like the S65 or S85 again. the only thing i can think of is using both electric and N/A engine. but that tech is years away from cars like the M3.
kind of what the 918 Porsche does

[s85e90]

Yes I forget about Europe where gas already makes driving prohibitive.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Were the bearings the treated ones or OEM set? Were they replaced for S/C?

No, replaced by the dealer under warranty because my car was ticking at 18k.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by s85e90

Yes I forget about Europe where gas already makes driving prohibitive.

Spot on , you nailed it !
Not alone gas , but the yearly driver taxes are insane and the price of the car !

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

Evo thinks the new M3 is a disappointment, strange because Autobild thinks the F8X is so great that they made it their car of the year.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1064407

I'll go with Autobild on this ...

Fair enough, but the Autobild car of the year is awarded by readers who can vote on the internet. I would bet most people didn't even see, let alone drive, a new M3/M4 by the time this was awarded.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Rupes

Fair enough, but the Autobild car of the year is awarded by readers who can vote on the internet. I would bet most people didn't even see, let alone drive, a new M3/M4 by the time this was awarded.

Yeah, different sort of contest

The new BMW M3 and the new BMW M4 Coupé have been awarded the “Auto Bild Sports Cars of the Year” award by readers of the automobile magazine Auto Bild Sportscars.

The M3 won the “Serial Production Sedan Models” class, attracting 30.21 per cent of the votes cast while the M4 Coupé grabbed 16.67 per cent and came out tops in the “Serial Production Coupé Models” category.

Readers were able to vote online at “autobild.de” and were given a choice of 143 automobiles in 17 categories. The title “Auto Bild Sports Cars of the Year” was awarded for the 13th time in 2014 and is one of the most important awards for sports-style automobiles in Germany. The award ceremony took place at the “Race Night” as part of the 2014 Essen Motor Show.

[mjposner]

As I have said before, what has been the biggest complaints from current M3 owners:

1. Not enough torque
2. bad fuel economy
3. gas guzzler tax
4. car weight

So BMW goes out and builds a lighter, faster car that gets better fuel economy and has no gas guzzler tax.

The new car is for the 95% average M3 driver who leases the car for 3 years, wants a new car and stays in the family, drive it daily and do not track. Cayman is way to small and not practical, the 911 and gtr are over 100k, the mustang is too down market, and the lexus, despite na, is still a lexus with an ugly puss and auto slush box.

So, first new rule, if you have not really driven the new car, temper your opinions, it comes off as shrill and jealous. If you have blast away! I have not and will reserve till I get some seat time.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by Rupes

Fair enough, but the Autobild car of the year is awarded by readers who can vote on the internet. I would bet most people didn't even see, let alone drive, a new M3/M4 by the time this was awarded.

I have more faith in the internet car guys than a bunch of journos from EVO.

BTW it was a sujective test not based on performance numbers anyway. Like a bunch of guys deciding who's the most handsome man in the world. Hahahaha

[Harpua]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

I have more faith in the internet car guys than a bunch of journos from EVO....

Wha??

[JRV]

Did he just say that??

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by Harpua

Wha??

Listen my friend, I drove the new M3. The new car is not a disappointment, hopefully I'll have a nice down payment ($30k) for one in the summer.

yes i have more faith in the internet car guys than Evo.

[nick3753]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

I have more faith in the internet car guys than a bunch of journos from EVO.

BTW it was a sujective test not based on performance numbers anyway. Like a bunch of guys deciding who's the most handsome man in the world. Hahahaha

Yes it's subjective, but purchasing performance cars is just that. Unless of course your racing competitively. Objectively the new car is better in all categories except msrp. But we're not buying minivans here looking for the lowest cost, mpg, space, most cup holders etc. These cars are meant to excite. And what excites you is subjective. Is the new car subjectively better? Haven't driven it, so couldn't say.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by nick3753

Yes it's subjective, but purchasing performance cars is just that. Unless of course your racing competitively. Objectively the new car is better in all categories except msrp. But we're not buying minivans here looking for the lowest cost, mpg, space, most cup holders etc. These cars are meant to excite. And what excites you is subjective. Is the new car subjectively better? Haven't driven it, so couldn't say.

My E92 M3 sounds amazing, great car, I love driving it, the predictable linear power delivery can be boring. I got more excitements driving the F8X than my car. It sounded, felt more raw, it just pulls throughout the whole rpm band and well planted. It is playful...
You might not like the F8X but to say it's a disappointment, you got to be an idiot. (Referring to the Evo guys).

[Harpua]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

You might not like the F8X but to say it's a disappointment, you got to be an idiot. (Referring to the Evo guys).

It would seem to me that many posters/F8x cheerleaders are reacting to the word "disappointment" in absolute terms. It is simply a relative word that is mostly related to expectations. I could make $2.5 billion this year, but if I expected to make $2.7 then I'd be disappointed.

Compared to the E9x, nobody would argue that the F8x isn't a better car in just about every imaginable metric, but when compared to the competition and to the historical high-bar expectations from the M division, it looks to be a bit of a disappointment in the eyes of many reviewers.

Labelling the Evo guys as idiots?

[Shredicus]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

My E92 M3 sounds amazing, great car, I love driving it, the predictable linear power delivery can be boring. I got more excitements driving the F8X than my car. It sounded, felt more raw, it just pulls throughout the whole rpm band and well planted. It is playful...
You might not like the F8X but to say it's a disappointment, you got to be an idiot. (Referring to the Evo guys).

Unscrew a couple spark plugs and fill up with some 87 to help with that

[DKX4///M]

Originally Posted by malrash

...and everyone thinks they are a better driver than they actually are....

In psychology it's called "The Lake Wobegong Effect" (Spelling may be off)...

Studies show men ,women and children all over estimate all their abilities (In everything from looks to driving ability).


From Wikipedia:

The Lake Wobegon effect, a natural human tendency to overestimate one's capabilities, is named after the town. The characterization of the fictional location, where "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average," has been used to describe a real and pervasive human tendency to overestimate one's achievements and capabilities in relation to others. The Lake Wobegon effect, where all or nearly all of a group claim to be above average, has been observed in high school students' appraisal of their leadership,[8] drivers' assessments of their driving skill,[9] and cancer patients' expectations of survival.[10]


Link to article: Wiki Article "Lake Wobegon Effect"

Once you become aware of this you can start to live in reality. Most people live in that bubble. You don't know what you don't know so naturally we all think we know everything. True wisdom is realizing that none of us know SH*T!

Everyone I know is the best driver ever. And when reality doesn't match the perception it's really interesting to see how different people react. To me, watching that reaction says a lot about a person.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

I have more faith in the internet car guys than a bunch of journos from EVO.BTW it was a sujective test not based on performance numbers anyway. Like a bunch of guys deciding who's the most handsome man in the world. Hahahaha

Come on man, you must understand that Auto Bilds car of the year is just a popularity contest, the people that votes have'nt even drove the car!! lol

And yes Evos test is a subjective one but so as any sport that use judges to determine a winner, does that make the results irrelevant!? No! Specially in a situation where all of the judges ranked the M3 in the last and second to last position, that says a lot!!

IMO, the new M3 IS a disapointment because it falls short of expectations in many categories, high expectations created by the previous M3 models. And trust me when I say that I wanted to like it and maybe eventually order one to replace my E92 and Evo X but this model just does'nt attract me. I'm sure that the next RS5 will be a much better package for most people then the F8x, mostly because of AWD but I'm expecting a better engine also, one that will sound great and will be easilly tunable via ECU. And franckly, I'm not in love with the look either, I think they tried too hard with the front end!

[checkmate]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

I still think the E92 has plenty of power to enjoy. Usually those who keep craving more and more power aren't the best drivers because the only thrill they get is going fast in a straight line. A good driver will have a blast even in an FR-S/BRZ. Going fast through corners and getting the rear to slip out is where the most fun in a car is and thankfully you don't need tons of HP for that.

Can I get an Amen!