Official S65 Rod Bearing Condition Example Thread

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by da jemster

Bode well? To whom? Dean's a great contributor to this forum and a very helpful person! I've PM'd him twice in 2 years, the latest was 3 weeks ago asking about rotating my engine and he's always answered back within 24 hours. But for this question, I wasn't going to ask him. I was hoping some helpful members would chime in with their opinions. On other muti-page threads, someone asks a question that's already been answered, I've returned the favor by repeating an answer them.

I agree, lots of helpful members. But the "too lazy comment" were your words not mine. I can accept where I'm wrong and I apologize.

[da jemster]

Originally Posted by DRLane

I agree, lots of helpful members. But the "too lazy comment" were your words not mine. I can accept where I'm wrong and I apologize.

Thx a lot DR! You yourself have responded with helpful answers to other members!

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by da jemster

There's 81 pages on this thread and am too lazy go through and get an analysis. What's the consensus on the wear on the edges of the ones on the caps of 7&3 and 8&4? How come I didn't have wear in the middle of any of the RBs?

The wear at the ends of the shells are from excessive bearing crush.

The abnormal wear in some of those shells favoring the edge may also be from a slight defect in the rod (bend) or crank journal.

[gnjax]

Did the rod bearing job a couple weeks ago on my '10 e92 lci, 105k Kms.
Took me ages to complete on jack stand, if anyone is wondering wether you should attempt it on jack stand the answer is definitely no. Either find a lift or pay someone to do it. I'd rather pay ~1k$ than doing this again.
That being said, here's a pic. I'd say not great but not terrible either. I'm glad it's over

EDIT : Car has been running on ESS VT1 kit for around ~40k km before. That might be interesting to know at least in my case it doesn't seem to have produced any additional rod bearing wear compared to similar mileage from this post

[da jemster]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

The wear at the ends of the shells are from excessive bearing crush.

The abnormal wear in some of those shells favoring the edge may also be from a slight defect in the rod (bend) or crank journal.

As always, Thank You very much Dean!

[lukass]

2011 M3
20,xxx miles
One owner, 4 documented oil changes from BMW before warranty expired.
One done every year after since miles did not exceed 2,500.

[Hondaman23]

Originally Posted by lukass

2011 M3
20,xxx miles
One owner, 4 documented oil changes from BMW before warranty expired.
One done every year after since miles did not exceed 2,500.

20K Miles and that is a bunch of wear. Still nothing to be concerned about since you just started to get through the top layer, but I have pulled apart engines with 200k miles and not seen that much. It is such a relief to have it done, isn't it! Don't feel bad that you did it either - it was on its way to some good wear in the future, but you serviced it sooo much sooner, and that is good!!

[lukass]

Originally Posted by Hondaman23

20K Miles and that is a bunch of wear. Still nothing to be concerned about since you just started to get through the top layer, but I have pulled apart engines with 200k miles and not seen that much. It is such a relief to have it done, isn't it! Don't feel bad that you did it either - it was on its way to some good wear in the future, but you serviced it sooo much sooner, and that is good!!

Oh absolutely. I consider the bearing service a necessity on these cars. Did it on my E46s and all of the E92 M3s Ive had.
I'll gladly take the peace of mind. Also this car is a "keep forever" type so in the grand scale of things it's no biggy.

[flipmeraz]

90k miles and 30+ track days.. Replaced with ACL mixed set. Oil change every 5k with 10w60.

[Assimilator1]

Has no one whose posted here in the past ~3mths seen/heard of my analysis of oil analysis thread?
Worth pointing out to those who will/are relying on it to pick up bearing failure.

Originally Posted by tsk94

It's not completely worthless, that would be naive to think that. Is it nearly as effective as monitoring a lead based bearing, no!

It's better then nothing, and assuming small enough intervals to monitor drastic changes it could prevent failure. Is this realistic for everyone, perhaps not. I've done 3 oil analysis in ~700 miles this past season to keep an eye on my bearing wear.

Even with lead bearings, using oil analysis to pick up bearing failure will not guarantee you will find it in time, not even close to 100% certainty, see my the thread linked in my sig.
Although I haven't come across anyone whose done it every 700 miles! If you're willing to be the Guinea pig to do that, I would greatly appreciate your oil report results and if/when you do the bearings, photos of them in my oil report thread.

Originally Posted by DL335D

Those do look really good. I'm definitely waiting until 75k.

Just because his engine was 'ok' to 60k miles doesn't mean yours will be, or to 75k miles. Different engines will have different tolerances.
You can only get some idea of how long you can leave your shells in once you change the 1st set.

Shan75
Did you take the photos?

Fezza
Thank you for the photo of good condition rod bearings , I will add that to my list of what rod bearings should look like after xx k miles.

Originally Posted by Move Over

Probably will get some crap for this but i bought a car recently that had 165,000 miles on it, the OEM bearings were changed at 162k miles, but they were changed with OEM new style bearings. I wasn't comfortable with that so i DIY'd again today with ACL bearings and ARP bolts. Easy and cheap as i have a lift in the garage and experience doing them 4 hours start to finish. Here's the bearings that came out with just over 3k miles. Figured I'd share

4hrs!! Wow! That is by far the fastest I've ever heard them been done! (ah, just saw your latter post about it already being on the ramp, and you just hung the subframe, good to know).
How many S65 bearings have you done before? Are you a tech by trade?
I'm a tech myself but have not done any S65 rod bearings yet (I am going to do my own).

frankc
Thanks for the organiser

Cmassey3
The oil on some of those shells hides the crucial point at where many of them wear, have you still got the shells so you could take pictures of them clean?

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

The wear at the ends of the shells are from excessive bearing crush.

The abnormal wear in some of those shells favoring the edge may also be from a slight defect in the rod (bend) or crank journal.

Is it also possible that normal slight flexing of crank and/or rods combined with an overly tight bearing clearance could result in this type of wear?

Hondaman23
Got any pics of those 200k miles bearings?

[edit] Sorry for the long post! Just catching up

[e36clubracer]

Bearings pulled from our 2011 M3 with 62k miles, not sure if any track time previously. Maintenance records show regular scheduled oil changes its entire life. Replaced with ACL mixed bearings from Lang Racing with work done by Edge Motorworks in Fremont.

Luckily bearings were not in too bad of shape. Obviously no wear is what you should see but we know the situation with stock bearings... glad we got them changed out!

[jvictormp]

Originally Posted by e36clubracer

Bearings pulled from our 2011 M3 with 62k miles, not sure if any track time previously. Maintenance records show regular scheduled oil changes its entire life. Replaced with ACL mixed bearings from Lang Racing with work done by Edge Motorworks in Fremont.

Luckily bearings were not in too bad of shape. Obviously no wear is what you should see but we know the situation with stock bearings... glad we got them changed out!

Advanced wear, I think. Can't say that's not a bad shape.

Also, I think I'm seeing a nail tint right there! What's that for?

[e36clubracer]

Originally Posted by jvictormp

Advanced wear, I think. Can't say that's not a bad shape.

Also, I think I'm seeing a nail tint right there! What's that for?

Who knows?!

[frankc]

Originally Posted by jvictormp

Also, I think I'm seeing a nail tint right there! What's that for?

I suspect it's for marking fasteners that have been torqued - a common practice in some shops.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by frankc

I suspect it's for marking fasteners that have been torqued - a common practice in some shops.

I mark internal bolts with a dab of red line assembly lube...

Exterior bolts with a paint pen...

But damn, some sparkly nail polish could really make the job POP!!

[S65 SCHNAUZER]

2009 M3 E90
89XXX
2nd owner

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by rymerc

Don't be lulled into an adjusted scale of bearing wear. These bearings look terrible. Significant copper showing on multiple shells, at least they weren't worn completely through the copper layer.

Good thing you got them changed before they failed.

Err, I don't see any copper, are you sure you were looking at Obvious Lynx's photo?

Originally Posted by AggieZig

Just purchased an 08 E90 6MT with 87,800 miles. Before purchase, I had Zima Motorsports in Bridgeview, IL swap the original bearings with a set of BE bearings.

Here is what the originals looked like with 87k. Blackstone analysis to follow shortly...

Needless to say, I'm glad that I did them when I did.

I don't suppose you've got any better quality photos now have you?

Originally Posted by Scrippy

2nd set I've pulled for replacement. These are WPC bearings with ARP bolts used and they've gone 98,000 & 4 summer track days in SoCal. Another thing to note is that I recently hit a concrete bump in the road and it cracked my oil pan, trans pan and drivers motor mount. I didn't know but I was losing oil for the 10 miles left in my journey home. There is literally a trail. When I pulled in the garage my cars valves sounded like a steam engine lol. I turned the car off in horror and immediately heard SPLUSH! That was what was left of my oil on the floor. Towed it to my local BMW......Oil pan, trans pan, both motor mounts, aluminium belly pan and 3rd set of rod bearings later I got her back. Good to go so far. Some notes.....
1-OG OEM bearings removed at 25,000 of use. (OEM)
*Looked like shit!
2-2nd set replaced with 98,000 of use. (WPC/ARP bolts).
*the enclosed picture and they look amazing!

I don't suppose you've got a better quality photo now, or can take some? They look orange in your photo , and it's a little distant.
Btw, I take it despite the heavy oil loss that oil pressure wasn't lost on the drive home? (which would explain why the shells are still good, as best as we can see with that photo).

rdoctor
Any chance you could fix your photo links? (broken currently).

[Idfkman]

So, I finally bit the bullet last week and had the rod bearings replaced with ACL bearings (mixed set) at a shop in VA. The car is a 2010 and had 133k miles when the bearings were changed and I bought the car at a little under 100k 2 years ago. It's been my daily with a 80ish mile round trip commute into the city a few days a week and it's been more reliable than my Honda I used to daily.

It's had a Dinan tune, intake, exhaust, and 3.62 diff its whole life among other Dinan goodies.

I Can't describe how much more at ease it feels driving the car with the peace of mind that it won't spontaniously combust and shoot a rod out the block. Knock on wood..

The bearings according to the shop weren't bad for the mileage, they even asked if they had been done in the past which they hadn't according to the previous owner. Looking at the pics though there is quite a bit of wear.

Oil was changed every 5k miles or thereabout with either TWS or LM 10w60. Used Ceratec during the last few oil changes.

[Assimilator1]

Yea their quite worn, but am I right in saying theirs no copper visible?

[omegaman19689]

Here is Cylinder 7 bearing from an S65 engine I'm using for an engine swap. I was told it had 86,000 miles on it. I've checked the crank and luckily zero damage. Can't have been far away from spinning









I also have a 2008 E90 M3 and the bearings were done at 95,000 miles. The car has full BMWSH.

This was the worst one from that car...

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by omegaman19689

Here is Cylinder 7 bearing from an S65 engine I'm using for an engine swap. I was told it had 86,000 miles on it. I've checked the crank and luckily zero damage. Can't have been far away from spinning



Attachment 2403997

Attachment 2403998



I also have a 2008 E90 M3 and the bearings were done at 95,000 miles. The car has full BMWSH.

This was the worst one from that car...

Attachment 2404010

[Idfkman]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Yea their quite worn, but am I right in saying theirs no copper visible?

Nope, no copper is visible from what I can tell.

I should be getting my Blackstone lab results back soon from when the RB service was done. Although, there was less than 1k miles on the oil so it probably won't tell me much.